Electric Vehicles?

[cpp]

if your Tesla needs to be jump-started, it’s the 12V auxiliary battery that you will jump-start. https://teslatuneup.com/jump-start-tesla-model-3/

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[j_garcia]

Many EVs have heat pumps now, which are intended to stabilize the temperature of the battery for charge life and charging time/capacity. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 have this.

If? They've been out for a while.
2023 Kia EV6 | All-Electric Crossover - Pricing & Features | Kia
2023 IONIQ 5 | Electric SUV, Overview | Hyundai USA
I really like the Kia model (better looking to me than the Hyundai).

I thought the EV6 looked better in pics before they came out, but I see a lot of both of them around here and the EV6 is fugly in person.

if your Tesla needs to be jump-started, it’s the 12V auxiliary battery that you will jump-start. https://teslatuneup.com/jump-start-tesla-model-3/

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This is true for hybrids too. It didn't occur to me they had completely separate 12v system at all until hers died. Factory AGM battery (dry cell) that lasted about 11 yrs.

 

[Cos]

Not going to lie, I was about 99% ready to buy the Tesla Model 3 Performance. $7500 discount at point of sale and 10k Charger miles ($500 street value) made it difficult to turn down. The who no dash and holographic overhead display were reasons not to buy. I also had concerns about build quality.

They are sold out with the occasional pop up of a new one every few hours. I had the option to pick one up yesterday and today, but could not pull the trigger

 

[cpp]

Many EVs have heat pumps now, which are intended to stabilize the temperature of the battery for charge life and charging time/capacity. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 have this.



I thought the EV6 looked better in pics before they came out, but I see a lot of both of them around here and the EV6 is fugly in person.



This is true for hybrids too. It didn't occur to me they had completely separate 12v system at all until hers died. Factory AGM battery (dry cell) that lasted about 11 yrs.

That was the first thing I asked the salesmen in 2020 when I bought the model s, took him 30 + mins to get an answer.

 

[j_garcia]

I don't think it comes as standard on Teslas, it is optional.

 

[Swerd]

When I was looking for EVs, the Tesla Y definitely has a heat pump. The Tesla 3 might have one, but I'm not certain about that.

The Volvo C40 and XC40 have optional heat pumps. My C40 has a heat pump – I think it's worth paying extra for it.

The owner's manual recommends combining the heated seats & steering wheel with the heat pump. If you are uncomfortably cold, increasing heat from the seats & steering wheel, while maintaining a lower cabin temperature uses less battery charge than relying on the heat pump alone.

Wikipedia says this:

The Model Y is Tesla's first car to use a heat pump instead of electric resistance for interior cabin heating. Some electric vehicles from other manufacturers, including the Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, BMW i3 EV, Jaguar I-Pace, Audi e-tron, and Kia Niro, had already implemented heat pumps. In cold weather, the Model Y heat pump can be up to 300% more efficient than other Tesla cars' use of electric resistance heating. Because of this, the Model Y should be more energy efficient than other Tesla cars in cold weather. Electric cars can lose 40% or more of their range in cold weather (at ambient temperatures below 20 °F (−7 °C)) when heating the interior cabin.

During his teardown of the Model Y, auto analyst Sandy Munro found a component that has been referred to as the "octovalve", which appears to be the next iteration of the superbottle component used in the Model 3. Musk has said that the new heat pump system/octovalve is one of the two most significant changes in the Model Y over the Model 3, the other being the new rear underbody casting. The octovalve supports the Model Y heat pump as part of the car's thermal management system.

Tesla Model Y - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[highfigh]

heat is the real killer of a lead acid battery, it's the demands of cold weather starting that ultimately kills it. Overcharging is another way to shorten the life

No battery stands up to heat- it happens when constantly charging, drawing excessive power and trying to charge a stone dead battery without ramping up to full current. Lead acid batteries usually don't charge well, if at all, if they go totally dead and sit through freezing weather, especially if it goes through several years of heat/cold. I'm looking at a boat to repair and possibly sell- the battery has been connected and dead since at least 2012 and I removed it to check it out- it still takes a charge and after sitting, it still shows about 12.4 VDC, but I haven't put a load on it- I expect it to fall flat on its face, but I was surprised to see that it could still charge, although I don't know how many discharge/freeze/recharge cycles it has withstood. The thing I expected to see is bulging at the sides and it hasn't does that- usually, that occurs because the electrolyte can actually freeze when the charge has depleted.

 

[highfigh]

Not that I'm aware of. If there isn't enough juice left in the battery, a jump start wouldn't help. You need a partially charged battery to drive it – there's no alternator. That's why we must have home chargers for EVs.

I've also wondered if I could jump start an internal combustion car from my EV battery. Not that I'm aware of … and I've looked in the owner's manual. That's for a Volvo C40. If other EVs can do that, I wouldn't know.

The voltage from an EV battery isn't 12V, it's quite a bit higher because it's more efficient- cars that stop running at traffic lights use high voltage batteries and the starter is concentric with the drive shaft because trying to crank an engine with 12V creates a lot of heat, the starter, battery and alternator wouldn't live long. If it has a high current 12VDC output, maybe it can be done but connecting a standard IC engine battery to am EV battery is gonna make something smoke. Charging an EV from the wall starts at 120V or 240V and the capacity is greater.

 

[cpp]

I thought this was interesting.

from the US Dept of Energy :
"A standard U.S. home refrigerator of 20 to 25 cubic feet uses 400 to 1,000 kWh per year, or between 0.4 MWh and 1 MWh. Using those numbers, we calculated that a single EV would use between 3.8MWh and 9.5MWh more energy annually than a standard home refrigerator.Aug 27, 2022 "
" "Not surprisingly, an electric car is a bigger grid load than a household refrigerator " I guess this would be a lot different if you had two EV's at home, and you used one of these cars a LOT, which would require constant re-charging, or if a home kept opening their fridge all the time.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I thought this was interesting.

from the US Dept of Energy :
"A standard U.S. home refrigerator of 20 to 25 cubic feet uses 400 to 1,000 kWh per year, or between 0.4 MWh and 1 MWh. Using those numbers, we calculated that a single EV would use between 3.8MWh and 9.5MWh more energy annually than a standard home refrigerator.Aug 27, 2022 "
" "Not surprisingly, an electric car is a bigger grid load than a household refrigerator " I guess this would be a lot different if you had two EV's at home, and you used one of these cars a LOT, which would require constant re-charging, or if a home kept opening their fridge all the time.

How many annual miles was used in that conclusion?
EVs drive about 3 miles per 1 kWh.

 

[cpp]

How many annual miles was used in that conclusion?
EVs drive about 3 miles per 1 kWh.

the model 3 = 3.33 and 4.17 miles per kWh

The Model S gets between 89-120 MPGe and between 2.6-3.6 mi/kWh.

regarding how many miles in their study, ya better email the US Dept of Energy, I have no clue. And did they even turn the AC on or even run this test when its 0 degrees out side.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks.
I wonder why they would even try to compare or bring in the picture that fridge.
Yes, personal transportation uses lots of fuel no matter which one, electricity or gasoline.
My 14.5 cuft 2 year old freezer, auto defrost, uses .308mWh per year. Will not drive me to the market or shopping center.

 

[cpp]

Agree, a go figure moment.

Thanks.
I wonder why they would even try to compare or bring in the picture that fridge.
Yes, personal transportation uses lots of fuel no matter which one, electricity or gasoline.
My 14.5 cuft 2 year old freezer, auto defrost, uses .308mWh per year. Will not drive me to the market or shopping center.

I guess they used a household electrical appliance ( fridge) since we all have one, Why not the electrical oven or heat or AC unit. I guess they found something that fit their projected end result.

 

[highfigh]

I thought this was interesting.

from the US Dept of Energy :
"A standard U.S. home refrigerator of 20 to 25 cubic feet uses 400 to 1,000 kWh per year, or between 0.4 MWh and 1 MWh. Using those numbers, we calculated that a single EV would use between 3.8MWh and 9.5MWh more energy annually than a standard home refrigerator.Aug 27, 2022 "
" "Not surprisingly, an electric car is a bigger grid load than a household refrigerator " I guess this would be a lot different if you had two EV's at home, and you used one of these cars a LOT, which would require constant re-charging, or if a home kept opening their fridge all the time.

That's a pretty useless comparison- saying the EV uses more energy is fine, but is that it's absolute use, e.g., the energy provided by the battery, or is it the energy used to charge the batteries? Since the battery always has some residual charge, that needs to be considered- if they considered a 'full charge' from the depleted state, that's going to be very different. It's similar to refilling a propane tank- if it's not empty, they fill it to some designated weight and the cost is based on the amount of Propane that was required to fill it, not the tank's capacity. Over the course of a year, that difference really shows itself.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks.
I wonder why they would even try to compare or bring in the picture that fridge.
Yes, personal transportation uses lots of fuel no matter which one, electricity or gasoline.
My 14.5 cuft 2 year old freezer, auto defrost, uses .308mWh per year. Will not drive me to the market or shopping center.

If we consider the average person's understanding of energy or math, I think they had to come up with a simple device to use for comparison- watch when diners at a restaurant try to figure out who owes what for the check- lots of cypherin' and goesintas, but they often have a hard time with it. It's the reason many places show the amount of a 15%, 20% or 25% tip on the receipt.

 

[Teetertotter?]

No EV for me as live in Wisconsin year round. See how far you get go w/o having to charge in winter season. 1-1/2 hours before charging?? Then better drive where there are charging stations. Then see how long it takes to charge in 15F, if it will even charge...................lol

 

[cpp]

That's a pretty useless comparison- saying the EV uses more energy is fine, but is that it's absolute use, e.g., the energy provided by the battery, or is it the energy used to charge the batteries? Since the battery always has some residual charge, that needs to be considered- if they considered a 'full charge' from the depleted state, that's going to be very different. It's similar to refilling a propane tank- if it's not empty, they fill it to some designated weight and the cost is based on the amount of Propane that was required to fill it, not the tank's capacity. Over the course of a year, that difference really shows itself.

All I know when a Telsa battery is dead I don't give a crap how it compares to the fridge, the oven, the AC or heater in a home , its freaking dead. I remember when I got our Model S, we were told by the dealership, Tesla recommends to only daily charge to 90% capacity and to charge to 100% only when needed for long trips.

 

[highfigh]

All I know when a Telsa battery is dead I don't give a crap how it compares to the fridge, the oven, the AC or heater in a home , its freaking dead. I remember when I got our Model S, we were told by the dealership, Tesla recommends to only daily charge to 90% capacity and to charge to 100% only when needed for long trips.

Then, there's the limits on how far the batteries should be discharged- if they go too low, the batteries hate it and if the driver stops for a recharge when needed, their trip may take a long time.

Kinda nice to be able to stop for gas and leave the station within about five minutes.

I can imagine a Tesla owner calling Support to tell them that they're stranded while trying to charge the battery bank and they really need to reach their destination by oh, 45 minutes ago, and hearing "But it's a nice car, right?".

 

[cpp]

Then, there's the limits on how far the batteries should be discharged- if they go too low, the batteries hate it and if the driver stops for a recharge when needed, their trip may take a long time.

Kinda nice to be able to stop for gas and leave the station within about five minutes.

I can imagine a Tesla owner calling Support to tell them that they're stranded while trying to charge the battery bank and they really need to reach their destination by oh, 45 minutes ago, and hearing "But it's a nice car, right?".

I like the gas and go in less than 5 min vs 20+ minutes or longer just setting at a charge station late at night on a trip

 

[highfigh]

I like the gas and go in less than 5 min vs 20+ minutes or longer just setting at a charge station late at night on a trip

You don't like hanging with the locals?