Perlisten R7t Floor-Standing Loudspeaker Review

[Mikado463]

Probably the wrong guy to use that reply on, lol. Yeah it's real hard to do, but I'm sure that's not his point.

The 'China situation' gets more interesting by the day .........

 

[TLS Guy]

Admirable but nigh impossible unless you just stop purchasing anything and everything, move to that off grid cabin in the mountains that you made with trees you cut down yourself using the axe you forged from iron you mined.........

With respect I think you need to keep current on the global situation. China is not only not our friend, but quite possibly will become our mortal enemy in a shorter time than you might imagine. Xi is a dictator, there is no doubt about that. All dictatorships slide to increasing authoritarianism. There is every indication that is China's fate.
They are increasingly threatening Taiwan. Although the US has reaffirmed its two China policy, it is now policy to defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion.

A congressional panel has now concluded that the Corona Covid 2 virus was far more likely than not made in a Chinese lab. There is now evidence they were doing dangerous experiments, with insufficient safety protocols. There is the non unlikely possibility that this was part of a germ warfare program. There is no evidence there was an animal vector involved, from which the virus could have spread to humans from. This is after extensive searches circumventing the globe.

The Chinese have conducted significant hostile acts to European nations of late, and active consideration is being given in Europe to disassociation from trading arrangements and dependency on China.

The point of all this, is to advise and warn any business, that involvement with, and dependency on China is a very unwise business policy at this time.

Do not for one minute think I underestimate what will be a massive but vital undertaking, which will involve all of us. I have found that reducing personal dependency on China is not as difficult as you might think.

Personally I have been wary for a long time of the risks of Western dependency on Chinese manufacture.

Very little of my system was made in China. The bulk is it is of European manufacture, mainly from UK, Switzerland, Germany, USA and Scandinavia. I have a around 60 drivers in use, of which only six were made in China. All of my 12 power amplifiers currently in use were made in the UK. My AVP was made in Vietnam, I don't think any of my electronics was actually made in China, most Europe, USA and Japan. None of my tape machines or their accessories were made in Japan. Now I realize this collection spans 60 years to the present. However that is just further testimony to the wisdom of relying on western manufacture. It is better.

So, this dependency on China is relatively recent, and I firmly believe that this can, and should be reversed. And yes, that does need to involve all of us including you.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just deleted my comment, thot this was the steam vent for a second there with the politics (had to look up what ol' TLS was on about on the covid thing).

 

[gene]

Well may be a quarter turn of a roll. For the cost of those speakers, they need a dealer network. They are really too big and heavy for trials at home and return.

So a dealer network is imperative. People need to be able to hear them and have a relationship with a dealer. That is now very difficult as the dealer will try and double the price with "funny wire."

Their UK agent for instance does not seem to even have a website.

It is one thing to design and build a first class speaker, and quite another to sell them in quantity. Without sales and soon, this will all be a "flash in the pan."

How many on this forum are in the market for any of those speakers? Especially to build a complete AV system with their cheaper line? Hands up now!

This is the huge problem as all this comes out of discretionary income.

In former times, and a long time ago now, speaker manufacturers were pretty much all OEM suppliers and encouraged and supported the hobby market of builders. as well as selling completed speakers.

I, for instance, would be really tempted to experiment with that mid/HF unit. I would remind them that in the early days of audio, both Wharfedale and KEF were in many ways sustained by the DIY market. I know for a fact they would have gone under without it. There were others.

The erroneous view came in that selling to the DIY market impeded complete speaker sales. That is the reverse of the truth. I know, as I was around then. The KEF constructor market was one of the underpinnings of KEF for many years. I know as Raymond Cooke lived near by and I knew him.

Perlisten does NOT sell direct and they have a dealer network. They are rapidly growing their product lines and distribution worldwide and have become a defacto standard HP loudspeaker option for upscale theater systems.

 

[TLS Guy]

Perlisten does NOT sell direct and they have a dealer network. They are rapidly growing their product lines and distribution worldwide and have become a defacto standard HP loudspeaker option for upscale theater systems.

The excellence of their speakers is not in dispute, nor their marketing operation. What was very unwise in my view, was basing their manufacture in China. I see that as the greatest risk they face, and if I were them, I would be planning to make a move away from China. China is no longer our friend, if it ever was. Personally I doubt it ever was, and my feeling is that there are going to be a lot of the "proverbial chickens" coming home to roost. If a situation comes about and they can't make product, a far from remote possibility, then it makes the excellence of their speakers moot.

 

[Golfx]

The excellence of their speakers is not in dispute, nor their marketing operation. What was very unwise in my view, was basing their manufacture in China. I see that as the greatest risk they face, and if I were them, I would be planning to make a move away from China. China is no longer our friend, if it ever was. Personally I doubt it ever was, and my feeling is that there are going to be a lot of the "proverbial chickens" coming home to roost. If a situation comes about and they can't make product, a far from remote possibility, then it makes the excellence of their speakers moot.

Gotta say it—you seem absolutely captivated with criticism.

 

[TLS Guy]

Gotta say it—you seem absolutely captivated with criticism.

That is not criticism, but an assessment of the current world climate. What is known as "Realpolitic." In case you had not noticed the world is getting a more dangerous place by the day.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Thanks Shadyj for very encouraging well written review.

Regarding dealer network and listening first: I purchased my perlistens from a short list of recommendations from consulting with Matthew Poes and then reading professional reviews—especially Shadyj’s. These reviewers hear hundreds of speakers and arrive at recommendations devoid of the usual confirmation bias attached to ownership.

Would I have liked to hear and see them first—yes, but that would not have waved me off from trusting the reviewers who use bench measurements to back up their recommendations. I probably would have used the personal visit just to reinforce my decision once made. But at this price point where would I find all the speakers Matthew recommended (Perlisten, Salk, Focal Utopia, Revel) other that at a CEDIA show?

How do you like your speakers?

 

[Golfx]

How do you like your speakers?

I love these speakers. I have a two story family room (7000+ cu ft). They fill the room effortlessly, and like the cliche says, disappear into a wall of music. I sometimes use the auromatic upmixer for music and am always impressed when I change back to a two-channel preset how expansive just the towers sound. I use Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague to demo my system and it never disappoints.

 

[luis1090]

It seems their US office is not far from here. It is in Verona Wisconsin, a south eastern suburb of Madison.
807 Liberty Dr
53593 Verona
Wisconsin 53593 - USA

Telephone: - 815 764 3011

I think they are in suite 7. It sounds as if this is just an office.

If I were them I would get out of China really fast. It is clear to me that Xi is spoiling for real trouble. We have to disengage from China fast. Having factories in China is going to be a very bad business model going forward.

I think you're are in the wrong forum, this is about audio not politics or conspiracy theories.

 

[dutchholic]

If beryllium tweeters are important to you, don't buy these speakers.

Oh I wasn't even thinking about it. My point was that these speakers are massively overpriced because of the materials that are used.

The distortion measurements are not as good as their beryllium counterpart shadyJ comfirmed that(it's still unclear why the distortion measurements aren't included in this review). And the beryllium Perlisten's are even more overpriced.

 

[dutchholic]

You are giving Beryllium way too much credit. It's a reliably good material for a tweeter dome, but it definitely isn't the only game in town. It costs 50x more for maybe a 10% increase in performance. It's a cost-no-object material, but it's a relatively poor value.

That's what this hobby is all about right? Getting the max out of it and 10% extra performance is quite a lot.

If you consider that the Focal Beryllium tweeters are ~200 euro net cost (max. seen their retail pricing). Then I think that it's quite a nice gain for the price difference. Even if that prices double of tripples then it's still worth it, since the consumer price of these speakers are insane already, there's enough space for that. So I'm not quite clear what your point is here.

My point was that for 10.000 euro/dollar speakers; better materials should be used. Brands like Revel and Focal seem to be able to do in the same pricerange(and MUCH lower, see my Focal example).

You may also be making the mistake of taking some manufacturer's word that their tweeters are pure Be. There are many cases where manufacturers use an aluminum dome with a thin layer of Be vapor deposit but still calling it 'beryllium.' That "beryllium" dome wouldn't cost very much, but it wouldn't have the same performance as a true Be dome.

I don't think that Revel and Focal lie about their products and use coated aluminium. There are indeed BE tweeters from Chinese brands for example on Aliexpress, that are coated aluminium or just aluminium but I don't think that Revel and Focal would do that.

Or do you expect them to do that ?! Their reputation is at stake then.

"Beryllium - Element 4 on the Periodic Table - is a rare earth metal that is renowned for its remarkable physical properties that make it the ideal material for a high-frequency transducer. Compared to aluminum and titanium tweeter diaphragms, Beryllium offers 4.5 times the stiffness and three times more damping, and does so at only half of the weight. Beryllium tweeters are the centerpiece of the Revel PerformaBe loudspeaker series. "
This comes straight from Revels website about the usage of BE.

"To this day, only one material permits a joining of these parameters: Beryllium. For domes with identical masses, Beryllium is seven times more rigid than Titanium or Aluminum, the latter two well known for their rigidity. This results in a sound wave propagation three times faster than Titanium and two and a half times faster than Aluminum. In the end, the linearity of the frequency response curve, the acoustic transparency and the impulse response of the Beryllium tweeter are maximized and offer near-perfect sound. "
This comes from Focal.

They even argue that their tweeter has major advantages over aluminium tweeters in their marketing talk. If their BE tweeters are just fake BE and are coated aluminium then they will ruin their business when it comes out. Do you really think that Focal and Revel would take such a risk? Small unknown brands are able to take such a risk, but not Focal and Revel.

For that reason Perlisten is overpriced, since Revel and Focal both measure equally well and come with better performing materials.

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh I wasn't even thinking about it. My point was that these speakers are massively overpriced because of the materials that are used.

The distortion measurements are not as good as their beryllium counterpart shadyJ comfirmed that(it's still unclear why the distortion measurements aren't included in this review). And the beryllium Perlisten's are even more overpriced.

Ok, you try and design a speaker as good as that and produce it for less. Good luck with that. Designing and building a reference speaker system for yourself, comes with a very significant cash outlay and a huge amount of work. I know, because I have walked the walk. And by the way, the development of it is over years and not a few days.

 

[dutchholic]

Ok, you try and design a speaker as good as that and produce it for less. Good luck with that. Designing and building a reference speaker system for yourself, comes with a very significant cash outlay and a huge amount of work. I know, because I have walked the walk. And by the way, the development of it is over years and not a few days.

Why would I try that? I'm comparing Perlisten with other brands like KEF, Revel and Focal. Perlisten is overpriced compared to these brands.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why would I try that? I'm comparing Perlisten with other brands like KEF, Revel and Focal. Perlisten is overpriced compared to these brands.

The KEF Meta Blade 1 is $35,000 per pair.

The Revel Be Performa 328Be is almost $18,000 per pair.

The Focal Sopra is $26,000 per pair.

B & W 801 D4 is $38,000 per pair.

Perlisten S7T$18,000 per pair.

It is among the cheapest of that group, and I suspect is the top performer of that list. So on that basis it is a bargain.

 

[dutchholic]

The KEF Meta Blade 1 is $35,000 per pair.

The Revel Be Performa 328Be is almost $18,000 per pair.

The Focal Sopra is $26,000 per pair.

B & W 801 D4 is $38,000 per pair.

Perlisten S7T$18,000 per pair.

It is among the cheapest of that group, and I suspect is the top performer of that list. So on that basis it is a bargain.

Huh?

You're comparing the S7T here. I have a completely different opinion about that product. The S7T HAS BE tweeters and way more exclusive woofers!

This review is about the R7T so my comments here are about that product.

 

[shadyJ]

Why would I try that? I'm comparing Perlisten with other brands like KEF, Revel and Focal. Perlisten is overpriced compared to these brands.

His point is that these $10k speakers could stand toe-to-toe against anything that those brands have for the same price. Exotic diaphragm materials don't matter. A lot of pricey exotic drivers simply don't perform as well as simple traditional materials. How everything is put together matters far more than diaphragm composition. If you care about performance, you would be looking at measurements, not a parts list. And no one who has ever dealt with these speakers firsthand would ever call them cheap. They are built like a boulder, and their build quality is as good as anything out there for the same price.

 

[TLS Guy]

His point is that these $10k speakers could stand toe-to-toe against anything that those brands have for the same price. Exotic diaphragm materials don't matter. A lot of pricey exotic drivers simply don't perform as well as simple traditional materials. How everything is put together matters far more than diaphragm composition. If you care about performance, you would be looking at measurements, not a parts list. And no one who has ever dealt with these speakers firsthand would ever call them cheap. They are built like a boulder, and their build quality is as good as anything out there for the same price.

Yes, that was my point. I selected the top of the line speaker from the companies he listed plus B & W. You can see that in top of the line offerings they are on the low end of the scale. So you would assume that the lesser offerings would fall into line.

I bet this guy would be a time waster in an audio store.

 

[dutchholic]

His point is that these $10k speakers could stand toe-to-toe against anything that those brands have for the same price. Exotic diaphragm materials don't matter. A lot of pricey exotic drivers simply don't perform as well as simple traditional materials. How everything is put together matters far more than diaphragm composition. If you care about performance, you would be looking at measurements, not a parts list. And no one who has ever dealt with these speakers firsthand would ever call them cheap. They are built like a boulder, and their build quality is as good as anything out there for the same price.

I always look at measurements. I cannot find any distortion measurements of the R7T anywhere. It's actually one of the most important things because distortion is very audible. So that's impossible.

So I'm not quite sure how to compare them at all.

Edit: I've once bought two subwoofers (Dynaudio sub 6) for a small room. All reviews that I found at that time were over the top talking on how great this subwoofer was. The frequency response looked quite good for the size of the subwoofer. So I bought them, based on reviews and frequency measurements(but WITHOUT distortion measurements). Once I got them at home I tried to room eq them, but at the first sweep with the first subwoofer I heard something awkward from my listening position. I really thought that something was resonating strangely in the room itself, but when I moved closer to the sub I found out that it was the subwoofer itself that distorted heavily, so heavy that I thought that it was broken! And that was with the first sweep, not even at a high SPL. So I tried the other/second subwoofer; THE SAME. So in the end it was simply the design of the subwoofer. It simply had heavy distortion (from what I remember with my REW measurement: 30% distortion at a low freq range (~30hz I think) happened already with low SPL).

So I had to return both subs. This was VERY audible in my ears. I couldn't believe that the reviewers didn't hear this!

After that I said to myself: I will never buy ANY speaker without seeing the distortion measurements first. It's a mandatory measurement for me. And especially when it's about a product that costs 10K+ like the Perlisten speakers. So if distortion measurements aren't part of the reviews that I find: The speakers fell off my short-list.

 

[dutchholic]

Yes, that was my point. I selected the top of the line speaker from the companies he listed plus B & W. You can see that in top of the line offerings they are on the low end of the scale. So you would assume that the lesser offerings would fall into line.

I bet this guy would be a time waster in an audio store.

If you're so interested: I got one of the speaker series that you mentioned in your list(not B&W) and I got them for~38% under MSRP, and I closed the deal in less then one hour. I spend actually 30 minutes in an audio store, just to get the deal through the seller because I only looked at the measurements of the speakers. And no, I didn't buy anything extra with them, they are connected with proper copper cables. So your judgement about people couldn't be worse.