Perlisten R7t Floor-Standing Loudspeaker Review

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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
If there are no dealers in your area, ask Fidelity Imports which dealer can have some Perlistens shipped to you. If you are in the USA, you can get these speakers, but you may need to have them shipped into your state from an out-of-state dealer.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
If there are no dealers in your area, ask Fidelity Imports which dealer can have some Perlistens shipped to you. If you are in the USA, you can get these speakers, but you may need to have them shipped into your state from an out-of-state dealer.
I have to say Shady, that one thing that concerns me about this outfit, is their lack of transparency about ownership and head office. Apparently they have a US importer. So where is head office, and their base of operations? We know they are made in China, but by whom? Who are these "well known" engineers? Why all this secrecy and hiding in the shadows? It is starting to sound like some massive money laundering scheme. In all honesty, I would not be spending one red cent with this outfit, without a lot more transparency. I have done my best to get information about this, but this unit seems to exist in the shadows, why?
 
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G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
Thanks Shadyj for very encouraging well written review.

Regarding dealer network and listening first: I purchased my perlistens from a short list of recommendations from consulting with Matthew Poes and then reading professional reviews—especially Shadyj’s. These reviewers hear hundreds of speakers and arrive at recommendations devoid of the usual confirmation bias attached to ownership.

Would I have liked to hear and see them first—yes, but that would not have waved me off from trusting the reviewers who use bench measurements to back up their recommendations. I probably would have used the personal visit just to reinforce my decision once made. But at this price point where would I find all the speakers Matthew recommended (Perlisten, Salk, Focal Utopia, Revel) other that at a CEDIA show?
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I have to say Shady, that one thing that concerns me about this outfit, is their lack of transparency about ownership and head office. Apparently they have a US importer. So where is head office, and their base of operations? We know they are made in China, but by whom? Who are these "well known" engineers? Why all this secrecy and hiding in the shadows? It is starting to sound like some massive money laundering scheme. In all honesty, I would not be spending one red cent with this outfit, without a lot more transparency. I have done my best to get information about this, but this unit seems to exist in the shadows, why?
Lol, so conspiratorial! The CEO is Dan Roemer who is also the lead loudspeaker engineer. He leads a group that owns their own factories in China. The factories are not Chinese-owned but are just based in China. They basically have vertical control over their own supply chain which is one of the reasons why they can sell loudspeakers with such high build quality for a relatively low price. They design and manufacture their own drivers and almost every other component. They do a lot of work for others too, they were primarily a B2B business that did ODM and OEM work for other audio manufacturers and are responsible for some well-known products that you would have heard of. I don't want to say what, exactly, because they are under a contractual obligation not to take credit for some of the work that they do, but once you learn the design signatures, you know they have some involvement (probably the entire design and manufacturing). The reason why you probably don't know much about them is that Perlisten is basically their first venture business-to-consumer venture rather than doing work for other businesses. Their goal with Perlisten is to make the kind of stuff they would want to own themselves, so they are making the best products that they know how without being constrained by design goals from other businesses' product objectives.

They are pretty transparent, and if there is anything you want to know specifically, just send them an email to ask them. Also related to transparency, what other loudspeaker manufacturer is posting CTA-2034 spin graphs of every single product they own on their own product pages? Who else is going after the most strenuous THX certification? And they aren't afraid of third-party verification either- my own measurements have consistently been a very close match to their own posted measurements.
 
D

dutchholic

Junior Audioholic
He leads a group that owns their own factories in China. The factories are not Chinese-owned but are just based in China.
Are there any pictures of these factories in China? Multiple factories sound quite surprising/interesting to me.

For this price I would have expected at least some beryllium tweeters and more exclusive materials on the drivers. Silk dome tweeters and pulp drivers for 10K per pair is imo outrages.

Is the tweeter not below ear level? You can always put them on a stone or something but from the picture they look quite low.

What I'm really missing in this review are the distortion measurements. Those measurements are in my opinion one of the most important measurements. Especially when it comes to 10K speakers and even more so that we are able to compare them to the S7t, then we can see if the different/cheap materials of the R7t have an effect on the distortion levels. The S7t had distortion measurements. Why are they not included?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Are there any pictures of these factories in China? Multiple factories sound quite surprising/interesting to me.

For this price I would have expected at least some beryllium tweeters and more exclusive materials on the drivers. Silk dome tweeters and pulp drivers for 10K per pair is imo outrages.

Is the tweeter not below ear level? You can always put them on a stone or something but from the picture they look quite low.

What I'm really missing in this review are the distortion measurements. Those measurements are in my opinion one of the most important measurements. Especially when it comes to 10K speakers and even more so that we are able to compare them to the S7t, then we can see if the different/cheap materials of the R7t have an effect on the distortion levels. The S7t had distortion measurements. Why are they not included?
Beryllium is way more expensive for only a modest increase in performance. And sourcing Beryllium is becoming much more difficult. I would not be surprised if the use of Beryllium as a loudspeaker diaphragm is nearly completely gone in three to four years. For good reason.

I only have distortion for the 2.83v drive level which isn't a great level by which to judge distortion. It isn't quite as good as the S7ts overall, but it's still way below anything audible. The THX Dominus certification says more about that because their distortion criteria is very stringent.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Lol, so conspiratorial! The CEO is Dan Roemer who is also the lead loudspeaker engineer. He leads a group that owns their own factories in China. The factories are not Chinese-owned but are just based in China. They basically have vertical control over their own supply chain which is one of the reasons why they can sell loudspeakers with such high build quality for a relatively low price. They design and manufacture their own drivers and almost every other component. They do a lot of work for others too, they were primarily a B2B business that did ODM and OEM work for other audio manufacturers and are responsible for some well-known products that you would have heard of. I don't want to say what, exactly, because they are under a contractual obligation not to take credit for some of the work that they do, but once you learn the design signatures, you know they have some involvement (probably the entire design and manufacturing). The reason why you probably don't know much about them is that Perlisten is basically their first venture business-to-consumer venture rather than doing work for other businesses. Their goal with Perlisten is to make the kind of stuff they would want to own themselves, so they are making the best products that they know how without being constrained by design goals from other businesses' product objectives.

They are pretty transparent, and if there is anything you want to know specifically, just send them an email to ask them. Also related to transparency, what other loudspeaker manufacturer is posting CTA-2034 spin graphs of every single product they own on their own product pages? Who else is going after the most strenuous THX certification? And they aren't afraid of third-party verification either- my own measurements have consistently been a very close match to their own posted measurements.
It seems their US office is not far from here. It is in Verona Wisconsin, a south eastern suburb of Madison.
807 Liberty Dr
53593 Verona
Wisconsin 53593 - USA

Telephone: - 815 764 3011

I think they are in suite 7. It sounds as if this is just an office.

If I were them I would get out of China really fast. It is clear to me that Xi is spoiling for real trouble. We have to disengage from China fast. Having factories in China is going to be a very bad business model going forward.
 
D

dutchholic

Junior Audioholic
Beryllium is way more expensive for only a modest increase in performance. And sourcing Beryllium is becoming much more difficult. I would not be surprised if the use of Beryllium as a loudspeaker diaphragm is nearly completely gone in three to four years. For good reason.

I only have distortion for the 2.83v drive level which isn't a great level by which to judge distortion. It isn't quite as good as the S7ts overall, but it's still way below anything audible. The THX Dominus certification says more about that because their distortion criteria is very stringent.
Why do you think that? The "Focal TBE Beryllium tweeter set" goes RETAIL for 950 euro including 21% tax. Probably with ~40-45% margin for the retailer (which is the regular markup in the high end audio market). So Focal sells this tweeter for roughly, let's say 425-475 euro to the retail shop. This tells me that Perlisten is simply charging way WAY to much for their endproduct. The distortion is simply not optimal with a silk dome tweeter, I wouldn't pay 5K per speaker for a speaker with a silk dome tweeter and pulp woofers and I don't see any reason why Beryllium would be completely gone within 3 to 4 years time. Perlisten for example just started with Beryllium tweeters in their best product line, the same goes for Focal and Revel, they would lose a HUGE chunk of market share if they stop with Beryllium. Even if the price of Beryllium doubles or triples they will continue to sell it, because the Focal retail price tells me that they tweeter itself currently couldn't cost more then around 200 bucks and that's really MAX. since they need to make a profit on that product.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Can any non-Chinese actually own anything in China, tho?
Lovin, you are absolutely correct, I just checked. American, Europeans, and Australians are specifically barred from owning production facilities in China. So there has to be Chinese ownership involved here somehow.

Currently, I am going out of my way to avoid feeding the Chinese Dragon. So I would never be in the market for those speakers or recommend them.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Lovin, you are absolutely correct, I just checked. American, Europeans, and Australians are specifically barred from owning production facilities in China. So there has to be Chinese ownership involved here somehow.

Currently, I am going out of my way to avoid feeding the Chinese Dragon. So I would never be in the market for those speakers or recommend them.
Same somewhat applies to many countries, we're one of the few that allow pretty much any corporate nonsense.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Why do you think that? The "Focal TBE Beryllium tweeter set" goes RETAIL for 950 euro including 21% tax. Probably with ~40-45% margin for the retailer (which is the regular markup in the high end audio market). So Focal sells this tweeter for roughly, let's say 425-475 euro to the retail shop. This tells me that Perlisten is simply charging way WAY to much for their endproduct. The distortion is simply not optimal with a silk dome tweeter, I wouldn't pay 5K per speaker for a speaker with a silk dome tweeter and pulp woofers and I don't see any reason why Beryllium would be completely gone within 3 to 4 years time. Perlisten for example just started with Beryllium tweeters in their best product line, the same goes for Focal and Revel, they would lose a HUGE chunk of market share if they stop with Beryllium. Even if the price of Beryllium doubles or triples they will continue to sell it, because the Focal retail price tells me that they tweeter itself currently couldn't cost more then around 200 bucks and that's really MAX. since they need to make a profit on that product.
Doped silk dome tweeters are among the best around and actually measure better than most Beryllium tweeters.
 
D

dutchholic

Junior Audioholic
Doped silk dome tweeters are among the best around and actually measure better than most Beryllium tweeters.
I've never heared a silk dome tweeter that even comes close to what I hear from beryllium tweeters. They never sound as smooth/accurate to me as beryllium does.

Can you show me distortion measurements of silk dome tweeters that outperform the Revel F328be, Perlisten S7t; speakers that both have beryllium tweeters?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've never heared a silk dome tweeter that even comes close to what I hear from beryllium tweeters. They never sound as smooth/accurate to me as beryllium does.

Can you show me distortion measurements of silk dome tweeters that outperform the Revel F328be, Perlisten S7t; speakers that both have beryllium tweeters?
FWIW would like to see this in a more definitive thread on it's own about various forms of tweeters and their interfaces with baffles.....
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Why do you think that? The "Focal TBE Beryllium tweeter set" goes RETAIL for 950 euro including 21% tax. Probably with ~40-45% margin for the retailer (which is the regular markup in the high end audio market). So Focal sells this tweeter for roughly, let's say 425-475 euro to the retail shop. This tells me that Perlisten is simply charging way WAY to much for their endproduct. The distortion is simply not optimal with a silk dome tweeter, I wouldn't pay 5K per speaker for a speaker with a silk dome tweeter and pulp woofers and I don't see any reason why Beryllium would be completely gone within 3 to 4 years time. Perlisten for example just started with Beryllium tweeters in their best product line, the same goes for Focal and Revel, they would lose a HUGE chunk of market share if they stop with Beryllium. Even if the price of Beryllium doubles or triples they will continue to sell it, because the Focal retail price tells me that they tweeter itself currently couldn't cost more then around 200 bucks and that's really MAX. since they need to make a profit on that product.
You are giving Beryllium way too much credit. It's a reliably good material for a tweeter dome, but it definitely isn't the only game in town. It costs 50x more for maybe a 10% increase in performance. It's a cost-no-object material, but it's a relatively poor value. As for distortion from fabric dome, Perlisten can manage a THX Dominus certification with a fabric dome where I would bet most beryllium speakers would fail. Besides, within the transducer's intended bandwidth, the vast majority of distortion doesn't stem from the diaphragm material but rather motor and suspension non-linearities.

All Be tweeters come from Materion, but they have had such tremendous supply problems that I wouldn't be surprised if every single loudspeaker manufacturer that uses Be is looking for alternatives. Switching from Be to another material wouldn't really dent these manufacturers' market share so long as the alternative is good.

You may also be making the mistake of taking some manufacturer's word that their tweeters are pure Be. There are many cases where manufacturers use an aluminum dome with a thin layer of Be vapor deposit but still calling it 'beryllium.' That "beryllium" dome wouldn't cost very much, but it wouldn't have the same performance as a true Be dome.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
It seems their US office is not far from here. It is in Verona Wisconsin, a south eastern suburb of Madison.
807 Liberty Dr
53593 Verona
Wisconsin 53593 - USA

Telephone: - 815 764 3011

I think they are in suite 7. It sounds as if this is just an office.

If I were them I would get out of China really fast. It is clear to me that Xi is spoiling for real trouble. We have to disengage from China fast. Having factories in China is going to be a very bad business model going forward.
It's not just an office, they do R&D there too.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I've never heared a silk dome tweeter that even comes close to what I hear from beryllium tweeters. They never sound as smooth/accurate to me as beryllium does.

Can you show me distortion measurements of silk dome tweeters that outperform the Revel F328be, Perlisten S7t; speakers that both have beryllium tweeters?
You're talking about implementation of the tweeters in speakers, not the tweeters actual data. Perception plays a huge role and design influences perception, ie lower or higher crossover points, wave guides, etc. There are quite a few soft domes that measure extremely well with very good controlled harmonic distortion. John Krute measured quit a few SDs that are on par with any Be tweeters.

I have SB Be in my two channel system and love the sound characteristics, but they aren't heads and shoulders above the Hiquphon OW2 or Scan Speak 6600 soft domes in sound or measured performance. I go back and forth preferring the Be and the RAAL, even through RAAL's distortion numbers are much higher. Between *my* ears and any loss they may have accumulated, the two have their own distinct attributes.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I've never heared a silk dome tweeter that even comes close to what I hear from beryllium tweeters. They never sound as smooth/accurate to me as beryllium does.

Can you show me distortion measurements of silk dome tweeters that outperform the Revel F328be, Perlisten S7t; speakers that both have beryllium tweeters?
If beryllium tweeters are important to you, don't buy these speakers.
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
Lovin, you are absolutely correct, I just checked. American, Europeans, and Australians are specifically barred from owning production facilities in China. So there has to be Chinese ownership involved here somehow.

Currently, I am going out of my way to avoid feeding the Chinese Dragon. So I would never be in the market for those speakers or recommend them.
Admirable but nigh impossible unless you just stop purchasing anything and everything, move to that off grid cabin in the mountains that you made with trees you cut down yourself using the axe you forged from iron you mined.........;)
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Admirable but nigh impossible unless you just stop purchasing anything and everything, move to that off grid cabin in the mountains that you made with trees you cut down yourself using the axe you forged from iron you mined.........;)
Probably the wrong guy to use that reply on, lol. Yeah it's real hard to do, but I'm sure that's not his point.
 

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