Help w Home Theater Setup!

[Pauly67]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and looking for some help upgrading my home theater system around my new 77in Sony A80K OLED TV!
80% movies / 20%music


Existing system:

TV - Pioneer KURO 50" plasma PDP- 5080
Receiver- Yamaha RV-305 (no hdmi hookup lol)
Front speakers- B&W 602 bookshelf speakers on stands
Center Channel- B&W LCR60 s3
Rear speakers- never put back after remodel - Dayton (Parts Express)
Sub- Dayton S100ETH 210W


New System:

TV - Sony X77 A80K OLED

Receiver options:
Denon AVR-1700h or 3700h
Pioneer VSX935, VSX- LX 105 or 305

My question- If I upgrade to 7.2 or 9.2 system, do I build around and add to my existing B&W speakers or build a new complete speaker setup? ex Klipsch reference

or Andrew Robinson has some good recommendations for systems under $2500 on his you tube channel . Obviously if I go with 9.2 system bumps the budget up w more expensive receiver

My Budget would be 2500-3000 w receiver - less if I add to existing B&W speakers!


My family room is 20x 13 with 18ft vaulted ceiling which may make it difficult to take advantage of any ceiling speakers ?

Looking for input,
Thank you
Paul

 

[lovinthehd]

Depends how much you like your current speakers/brand or if you want to move current L/R to surrounds and get more substantial speakers up front....why would Klipsch be the alternative particularly? There's lots of speakers out there, some potentially better than those choices. As to avr I'd vote the Denon 3700 due its superior feature set over the 1700; I'm still a little leery of the Onkyo/Pioneer outfit, tho due the financials but so far they're hanging in there. I'd still choose on feature set and if a Pioneer I'd want similarly one with a full set of pre-outs and more than MCACC/AccuEQ (i.e. Dirac) capabilities on the dsp side of things....

 

[-Jim-]

Hi Paul,

I'm with @lovinthehd => go for the Denon 3700 or above. Pioneer/Onkyo's financial woes scare me so much I can't recommend their gear.

You said "My family room is 20x 13 with 18ft vaulted ceiling which may make it difficult to take advantage of any ceiling speakers ?"
There are "pointable" in ceiling speakers these days if you wanted to go to Atmos. But wiring them now could be a real challenge.

Can you provide a layout with close dimensions for possible speaker placements, and seating positions? This would go a long way to recommendations on going with a 7.2 or 9.2 system (or 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 Atmos system). I'd want to nail down the system before looking at expenditures.

 

[fmw]

I use Pioneer Elite AVR's and have used them for a long time. The Pioneer AVR line was acquired by Onkyo and Onkyo is not the healthiest company in the industry. I can't imagine fearing anything though. Almost all units survive their warranty period and Onkyo isn't likely to fail that quickly if at all. But I would also recommend the Denon unit, not because it is better but because its continuity as a product line is more secure. I can't recommend the Denon for reasons of performance because I have never owned one. The Pioneer Elite AVR's perform very well indeed. I suspect the Denon units do as well. They are very popular.

If you want to add channels then add to your existing speakers if you like their performance. If not, then move on to something else. It is a subjective thing.

 

[fmw]

I use Pioneer Elite AVR's and have used them for a long time. The Pioneer AVR line was acquired by Onkyo and Onkyo is not the healthiest company in the industry. I can't imagine fearing anything though. Almost all units survive their warranty period and Onkyo isn't likely to fail that quickly if at all. But I would also recommend the Denon unit, not because it is better but because its continuity as a product line is more secure. I can't recommend the Denon for reasons of performance because I have never owned one. The Pioneer Elite AVR's perform very well indeed. I suspect the Denon units do as well. They are very popular.

If you want to add channels then add to your existing speakers if you like their performance. If not, then move on to something else. It is a subjective thing.

 

[Pauly67]

Thank you all for info on Onkyo/Pioneer situation. am definitely leaning towards the denon 3700, and it looks like 3800 maybe even better with future DIRAC and current Aurro3D features seen on the 4700

I like the idea of moving B&W to rears and replacing those with a beefier set of tower speakers and upgrade SUBs!. Recommendations on something that will blend well with my B&W Center channel?

I uploaded a couple pics of my family room to give u an idea of seating and speaker setup!

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the pics. Just for grins, before you move the B&W 602 bookshelf speakers on stands to the rear, I've got a couple suggestions to try. In your size of room, they might still function well as mains.

Move the Sub to the corner where the plant is for a little reinforcement, and pull the B&W 602 bookshelf speakers away from the wall a foot or more. Raise the Center up close to the level of the bottom of the TV and keep it too away from the wall. (Use a small box, laptop monitor stand, etc.)

I hope you can move the couch (and the armchairs?) a foot of so forward to allow the surrounds some room. I'm thinking a single "pointable" Atmos pair maximum for your layout. 5.1.2 or 5.2.2 looks like a fit to me.

If the Blue Rectangle is supposed to represent the outline of the new 77 inch Sony, then it looks a little high to me. If I remember correctly optimally the center of the screen is at eye level when seated. (About the same as where tweeters are for speakers. Somewhere around 42 inches.)

I hope this is helpful.

 

[everettT]

Just gonna comment of the speaker question for now. IMO you are leaving a ton in the table with your current speakers. If it were me I'd at least I'd get new LCRs and subs. You can get by using the BWs for now for surround unless you're big into multi channel audio. That will get you the largest improvement in your whole setup.

I've owned a couple of sets of BW speakers in the 600 series and I'd never own them again. I took a chance twice before 3rd party measurements readily available and never again with the exception of a couple of the 800 series.

Congrats on the new display, I still have Kuro 60 in service and just can't bring myself to replace it yet. The other 4k displays I have display great images and when the Kuro gets replaced it will be like what you are doing, large OLED TOL model..

 

[Eppie]

Biggest challenge I see is that ceiling. Any flush mount speaker will be aimed at the TV. Your ATMOS speakers need to be pointed at your seating position. Klipsch and SVS make angled surface mount speakers for surround or height channels, but I'm not certain the angle will be enough in that room. You may end up needing to use a small box speaker on a bracket to get the angles and position correct. You can hire an installer to run wires to the ceiling, or use surface mount channels to hide the cables, but you may be better off just going with rear / side surrounds or maybe add front height speakers on the wall above the TV. Check the manual for the receiver you are considering (3700H is a good choice) and it will show different speaker configurations that are supported.

How do you find the dialogue with your current speakers? If the dialogue is good and intelligible you can consider the positioning -Jim- suggested and add surrounds. If the dialogue is lacking, then you could consider upgrading the front 3 and moving the B&Ws to surround duty.

 

[Pauly67]

Thanks for the pics. Just for grins, before you move the B&W 602 bookshelf speakers on stands to the rear, I've got a couple suggestions to try. In your size of room, they might still function well as mains.

Move the Sub to the corner where the plant is for a little reinforcement, and pull the B&W 602 bookshelf speakers away from the wall a foot or more. Raise the Center up close to the level of the bottom of the TV and keep it too away from the wall. (Use a small box, laptop monitor stand, etc.)

I hope you can move the couch (and the armchairs?) a foot of so forward to allow the surrounds some room. I'm thinking a single "pointable" Atmos pair maximum for your layout. 5.1.2 or 5.2.2 looks like a fit to me.

If the Blue Rectangle is supposed to represent the outline of the new 77 inch Sony, then it looks a little high to me. If I remember correctly optimally the center of the screen is at eye level when seated. (About the same as where tweeters are for speakers. Somewhere around 42 inches.)

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks Jim,

I moved the sub to the corner and will raise the center closer to the TV. The new 75in (blue rectangle) will be even with the bottom of the current TV. I'm agreeable that the B&Ws go to rear for surrounds as dialogue is not as clear as I would like, but could use some suggestions for new LCR & Subs!

 

[Pauly67]

Just gonna comment of the speaker question for now. IMO you are leaving a ton in the table with your current speakers. If it were me I'd at least I'd get new LCRs and subs. You can get by using the BWs for now for surround unless you're big into multi channel audio. That will get you the largest improvement in your whole setup.

I've owned a couple of sets of BW speakers in the 600 series and I'd never own them again. I took a chance twice before 3rd party measurements readily available and never again with the exception of a couple of the 800 series.

Congrats on the new display, I still have Kuro 60 in service and just can't bring myself to replace it yet. The other 4k displays I have display great images and when the Kuro gets replaced it will be like what you are doing, large OLED TOL model..

Pioneer Kuro is still an amazing picture......will still be in service in my living room, then the bedroom lol. I will like to start with replacing the LCRs and get 2 subs . so I guess I'm looking at a 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 ?

 

[Pauly67]

Biggest challenge I see is that ceiling. Any flush mount speaker will be aimed at the TV. Your ATMOS speakers need to be pointed at your seating position. Klipsch and SVS make angled surface mount speakers for surround or height channels, but I'm not certain the angle will be enough in that room. You may end up needing to use a small box speaker on a bracket to get the angles and position correct. You can hire an installer to run wires to the ceiling, or use surface mount channels to hide the cables, but you may be better off just going with rear / side surrounds or maybe add front height speakers on the wall above the TV. Check the manual for the receiver you are considering (3700H is a good choice) and it will show different speaker configurations that are supported.

How do you find the dialogue with your current speakers? If the dialogue is good and intelligible you can consider the positioning -Jim- suggested and add surrounds. If the dialogue is lacking, then you could consider upgrading the front 3 and moving the B&Ws to surround duty.

looking to upgrade receiver to:
Denon 3800 or 4700
Onkyo 7100 (refurb -$879) or RZ-50 (refurb $1100)
Pioneer Elite LX305
all have DRAC room correction!
Can these all handle my configuration of 5.2.2 or 5.2.4?

Ceiling is an issue , but I am a contractor, so I do all my own wiring etc.

As I said in other reply.....not very happy w B&W dialogue.....so they get moved to surrounds or in the living room with the Pioneer Kuro .

 

[BMXTRIX]

I don't speak much to speakers as there is a lot of personal choice, but unless you have found that your current television is too low, do NOT raise your television! It is a really typical thing that people want to put their TV at a level which is comfortable when they are standing, but when they sit down it is far too high. Even a few inches high can be difficult on necks for movie watching or sports. This is a personal decision, but lower is often far better. TVs really are designed to sit at about 20" or so from the floor to the bottom of the TV stand. This works well when seated.

Please keep this in mind before putting up the new TV. I do wholeheartedly think the Sony is a excellent choice. Should be a worthy upgrade to the Kuro.

 

[Pauly67]

This looks like the only difference between the Onkyo 7100 vs rz50

"The RZ50 can process two extra channels if you have an extra amp to power them. It is a bit more powerful overall and has pre-outs for all of the channels. If you are going with a 7.2.4 set up the RZ is a must."

This doesn't apply to my possible 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 setup correct?

 

[Pauly67]

I don't speak much to speakers as there is a lot of personal choice, but unless you have found that your current television is too low, do NOT raise your television! It is a really typical thing that people want to put their TV at a level which is comfortable when they are standing, but when they sit down it is far too high. Even a few inches high can be difficult on necks for movie watching or sports. This is a personal decision, but lower is often far better. TVs really are designed to sit at about 20" or so from the floor to the bottom of the TV stand. This works well when seated.

Please keep this in mind before putting up the new TV. I do wholeheartedly think the Sony is a excellent choice. Should be a worthy upgrade to the Kuro.

Thank you , Makes perfect sense ..... I actually had the Kuro on the stand for many years. The only reason is went on the wall was because my grand dog, who visits often, barks at every animal on the screen and i didnt want to risk scratching the Kuro then have to explain to my daughter what happened to her doggy lol.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks Jim,

I moved the sub to the corner and will raise the center closer to the TV. The new 75in (blue rectangle) will be even with the bottom of the current TV. I'm agreeable that the B&Ws go to rear for surrounds as dialogue is not as clear as I would like, but could use some suggestions for new LCR & Subs!

@Pauly67 Most of the dialogue in movies & TV comes from the Center Speaker, and frankly most folks simply don't focus enough attention on it. For lots of folks it's all about Towers for the L&R Front speakers. Great for 2 channel listening, but no so much for a Home Theater setup. My best system is a 5.2.4 Atmos. (Which is wired for 7.2.4 as I need to install a 2 channel amplifier if I want to light it all up, as there's only 9 channels of amplification in my Denon AVR-X4400h. I haven't got there because I don't think it will add much in the Games Room. I have 4 Home Theater setups overall. I know I have a problem...)

The best solution for LCR is to have identical speakers across the front. Period. No Debate! In our Games Room, I went with HSU CCB-8s across the front. According to all the reviews I could find beforehand; and my own experience, at their price point (and far above according to reviewers) there is no equal. I took a chance on them based just on reviews, forums, etc., and imported them from California into Canada myself, and HSU was very cooperative about it. I would buy them again in a heart beat.

These are called concentric or coaxial speakers. I'm not saying the CCB-8s are the best of their type available => I don't know that. Andrew Jones just introduced his latest version with MoFi; but at $3700 US a pair they should be dam good! (That's about 5 times the price of the CCB-8s!)

Trying to stay close to your Budget "2500-3000 w receiver" is going to be tough though - even with CCB-8s. HSU does make great Subs (according to the community), and does package them with the CCB-8s. But heavy discounts are not something they seem to do. Perhaps a Black Friday "special"? They do allow for a 30 day return (freight at your cost) but I doubt you'd be returning them.


Other gents will be chiming in with their suggestions, so consider them all before deciding what direction to go. Some OEMs will allow for returns for a month (or more), so you may want to hold an audition for the ones who make your short list.

Have fun with whatever you decide. Just Enjoy the process.

 

[lovinthehd]

looking to upgrade receiver to:
Denon 3800 or 4700
Onkyo 7100 (refurb -$879) or RZ-50 (refurb $1100)
Pioneer Elite LX305
all have DRAC room correction!
Can these all handle my configuration of 5.2.2 or 5.2.4?

Ceiling is an issue , but I am a contractor, so I do all my own wiring etc.

As I said in other reply.....not very happy w B&W dialogue.....so they get moved to surrounds or in the living room with the Pioneer Kuro .

Well the Denons don't have Dirac yet, and it will cost extra....and there are differing flavors of Dirac to consider as well. As to a center, I'd look for a larger 3-way speaker if you must have the horizontal type center (ideally you'd just use 3 identical speakers across the front).

 

[-Jim-]

I forgot to mention one of the benefits of going to CCB-8s across the front is orientation doesn't matter. You can have them vertical or horizontal. They just sound great. For example have them vertical for the L&R locations and lay one horizontal to go under (or over) a TV screen for the center speaker. If you buy them 3 at a time HSU will supply one configured with the binding posts turned 90° to make it easier to set-up.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Pauly67]

How do the HSU speakers compare to the Polk signature elite line ES50,ES55, ES60 towers? I think their bookshelf speakers are ES15, ES20....... the center channel is the ES-30 or ES35. any feedback from anyone that has heard them? I also heard some good comments about Triangle Borea speaker line BR-08. Has anyone had experience with these?

TV update : picked up my Sony 77 inch A80k on Wednesday ....WOW!!! very happy PQ. Looking forward to getting my Atmos surround setup.

FYI..... I can bump my budget up a bit if necessary lol

 

[-Jim-]

@Pauly67 Great to hear you got your A80k and are happy with it.

Few folks will have had the opportunity to listen to the CCB-8s, and the Polk Signature, or Triangle Borea series you are referencing.

Perhaps @shadyJ can advise. Comparing speakers is such a personal thing, and quite room dependent (IMHO), so getting them into your home for a demo would be the best way to evaluate them. (Of course I didn't do that with the HSU CCB-8s as I had to rely solely on reviews, and comments from others who heard them before importing them into Canada. But I'd still buy them again in a heartbeat => except with the Black Cones now! Although I guess the yellow ones were different.)

Will you audition different speakers before deciding what to buy or ?