2022 Denon av-receiver models leaked

[Chachy]

Sounds good. I figured to the untrained ear in a normal house with air exchanger going in the background and kids making noise, etc it would be hard to notice Something like that. Maybe if I had it hooked up in the Anechoic Chamber of the National Research Council of Canada I might hear something.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…sort of like buying a Leica Camera or a Mercedes S class ... there's not much they do, that cannot be achieved with much more plebeian cameras/cars.... but the engineering is superb...

What do you mean? Like a Mercedes S Class is more reliable than a Lexus LS/LX?

According to publications like Consumer Reports, Consumer Digest, JD Powers and others, Mercedes has mediocre to bad reliability record.

2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Reliability - Consumer Reports

Get reliability information for the 2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class from Consumer Reports, which combines extensive survey data and expert technical knowledge.

www.consumerreports.org

Reliability
We expect the 2022 S-Class to be less reliable than other new cars. This prediction is based on Mercedes-Benz's brand history and the previous generation of the S-Class.
Predicted Reliability

The 2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class has been recalled 5 times by NHTSA.View Recalls

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean? Like a Mercedes S Class is more reliable than a Lexus LS/LX?

According to publications like Consumer Reports, Consumer Digest, JD Powers and others, Mercedes has mediocre to bad reliability record.

2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Reliability - Consumer Reports

Get reliability information for the 2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class from Consumer Reports, which combines extensive survey data and expert technical knowledge.

www.consumerreports.org

Reliability
We expect the 2022 S-Class to be less reliable than other new cars. This prediction is based on Mercedes-Benz's brand history and the previous generation of the S-Class.
Predicted Reliability

The 2022 Mercedes-Benz S-Class has been recalled 5 times by NHTSA.View Recalls

Just say no to car analogies to audio gear. Mercedes needs to feed that infrastructure

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just say no to car analogies to audio gear. Mercedes needs to feed that infrastructure

Well I was gonna say. If we’re gonna compare good engineering to cars, it should be Lexus since Lexus has been ranked #1 in reliability since their inception year.

Mercedes has been ranked worst than average every single year.

I want an AVR or AVP or Amp that works perfectly for 20 years. That’s good engineering. Not necessarily SINAD of 120dB and THD+N of 0.0001% if it’s gonna be unreliable or incompatible or inconsistent.

But yeah, just say no to car analogies to audio gear.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well I was gonna say. If we’re gonna compare good engineering to cars, it should be Lexus since Lexus has been ranked #1 in reliability since their inception year.

Mercedes has been ranked worst than average every single year.

I want an AVR or AVP or Amp that works perfectly for 20 years. That’s good engineering. Not necessarily SINAD of 120dB and THD+N of 0.0001% if it’s gonna be unreliable or incompatible or inconsistent.

But yeah, just say no to car analogies to audio gear.

AVR or AVP analog vs digital has proved to be a bit different. Especially if you need the newest digital drm stuffs. While I had pretty good luck with Mercedes, definitely buggy in several ways....fine when under warranty altho annoying for the time but with a nice loaner not so bad Seems they have learned a lot about better hdmi boards over time to an extent, tho....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AVR or AVP analog vs digital has proved to be a bit different. Especially if you need the newest digital drm stuffs. While I had pretty good luck with Mercedes, definitely buggy in several ways....fine when under warranty altho annoying for the time but with a nice loaner not so bad Seems they have learned a lot about better hdmi boards over time to an extent, tho....

 

[Chachy]

I had seen the AVR-X4800H listed on Amazon.ca and then it was removed but I had added it to my wishlist and it now shows to be released on Dec 1-2022. When I click on it it shows page not found but should still be correct on the release date maybe. Not sure if it’s allowed to show this or prices but just thought it was interesting that it showed a release date. It does let me preorder it and add it to my
cart.

 

[mtrot]

Thanks again. I installed my 4700 today and set it up pretty much like I had my 5200. Here is a pic of how I have set the assign mode of my 4700. The Pre-out shows "Front". Does that mean that the internal front L/R channel amps are not getting a signal from the 4700 and only the pre-outs carry signal? I didn't hear any change in the sound when I set that setting to "Front", but the external amp was already connected and playing. I also used the Speaker Config screen to select my 5.1 channels.

View attachment 58428

So far, I can't tell any difference from the sound of my 5200, but I have not yet cranked up a Blu-ray movie, except, of course, that my front L channel now works!

Update: I've been using my 4700 for over a month now for movies. I pay special attention to the musical score in films. Again, I have the 4700 set up as close to the same as I can to how I had the 5200 set up. No Audessey, I just matched the distance and speaker level settings as best I could. I did set the front L/R channels to "Preout" with the 4700(which you can't do with the 5200). I'm using the same Krell power amp for front L/R speakers.

For the first couple weeks, it just seemed to sound sort of bland, not as "musical" sounding as my 5200 did, but now it really seems to be sounding much better. Yes, I know people will say that an AVR does not "break in" and that I'm just acclimating to the sound. Maybe so, but I did own and use the 5200 for about seven years, so I was quite used to the sound of it.

I was told that the lack of 15 wpc of the 4700 vs the 5200 would not make any significant difference to the sound. At this point, my impression is that that may be correct.

Btw, in case this might help anyone else, when I bought the 4700 from BB in late October, it was $150 off the list price. Yesterday, I noticed that they had it listed for $600 off list price. So, I just called and they did a "price match" for me, which resulted in a nice credit to my credit card!

After my initial qualms about the 4700, I thought about picking up a used or open box 6700 to see if it sounded any different or better. But now, with the combination of my recent sense that the 4700 is sounding really good, as well as the "price match" credit BB gave me, I'm a pretty happy camper.

The only other thing I might try is to add a separate amp for the center channel speaker.

 

[snakeeyes]

Congrats on the price match credit!

 

[PENG]

Update: I've been using my 4700 for over a month now for movies. I pay special attention to the musical score in films. Again, I have the 4700 set up as close to the same as I can to how I had the 5200 set up. No Audessey, I just matched the distance and speaker level settings as best I could. I did set the front L/R channels to "Preout" with the 4700(which you can't do with the 5200). I'm using the same Krell power amp for front L/R speakers.

For the first couple weeks, it just seemed to sound sort of bland, not as "musical" sounding as my 5200 did, but now it really seems to be sounding much better. Yes, I know people will say that an AVR does not "break in" and that I'm just acclimating to the sound. Maybe so, but I did own and use the 5200 for about seven years, so I was quite used to the sound of it.

I was told that the lack of 15 wpc of the 4700 vs the 5200 would not make any significant difference to the sound. At this point, my impression is that that may be correct.

Btw, in case this might help anyone else, when I bought the 4700 from BB in late October, it was $150 off the list price. Yesterday, I noticed that they had it listed for $600 off list price. So, I just called and they did a "price match" for me, which resulted in a nice credit to my credit card!

After my initial qualms about the 4700, I thought about picking up a used or open box 6700 to see if it sounded any different or better. But now, with the combination of my recent sense that the 4700 is sounding really good, as well as the "price match" credit BB gave me, I'm a pretty happy camper.

The only other thing I might try is to add a separate amp for the center channel speaker.

Congrats! If the 4700 is brand new but from their older stock, you may even ended up with the AKM DAC on board! If not, so fyi, the TI DAC (PCM5102A) is very comparable to the 5200's PCM1690, you can download the data sheets to see the extremely small difference in SINAD yourself.

I always find the "Denon sound", even "Marantz sound" bland and would expect the 5200 would be the same too. If you look at their specs and measurements (where available), you can understand why, all those AVRs in the mid price range should be transparent, that is, amplify the signal linearly without adding their own "sound signature". So if you hear the same quality now, good for you, if not, just get used to it and your ears/brains will eventually agree it sounds the same as the 5200.

That's for music, for movies I would say it is quite likely they will sound a little different but it should be hard to compare without having both hooked up and can be AB compared momentarily. That is near impossible to do for most people but without doing that, anything you perceived is anecdotal to others.

 

[mtrot]

Congrats! If the 4700 is brand new but from their older stock, you may even ended up with the AKM DAC on board! If not, so fyi, the TI DAC (PCM5102A) is very comparable to the 5200's PCM1690, you can download the data sheets to see the extremely small difference in SINAD yourself.

I always find the "Denon sound", even "Marantz sound" bland and would expect the 5200 would be the same too. If you look at their specs and measurements (where available), you can understand why, all those AVRs in the mid price range should be transparent, that is, amplify the signal linearly without adding their own "sound signature". So if you hear the same quality now, good for you, if not, just get used to it and your ears/brains will eventually agree it sounds the same as the 5200.

That's for music, for movies I would say it is quite likely they will sound a little different but it should be hard to compare without having both hooked up and can be AB compared momentarily. That is near impossible to do for most people but without doing that, anything you perceived is anecdotal to others.

Thanks, which digits of the SN will tell us that? I took a picture of the SN.

Yeah, I had hoped that a seven year newer AVR might have a bit better decoding of 5.1 or 7.1 channel Blu-ray discs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I had hoped that a seven year newer AVR might have a bit better decoding of 5.1 or 7.1 channel Blu-ray discs.

What do you mean?

That some AVR’s Dolby Digital or DTS 7.1 will sound better than another AVR’s DD/DTS just because of the DAC?

 

[mtrot]

What do you mean?

That some AVR’s Dolby Digital or DTS 7.1 will sound better than another AVR’s DD/DTS just because of the DAC?

Yes, but not just because of the DAC. I was hoping that perhaps the steering/placement of sounds in the various channels might be a bit better in a seven year newer AVR. Maybe not, I guess.

 

[PENG]

What do you mean?

That some AVR’s Dolby Digital or DTS 7.1 will sound better than another AVR’s DD/DTS just because of the DAC?

Not because of the different dac, but the newer and more powerful dsp could make a diifference. Audibly different or not we don't know.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, but not just because of the DAC. I was hoping that perhaps the steering/placement of sounds in the various channels might be a bit better in a seven year newer AVR. Maybe not, I guess.

Not because of the different dac, but the newer and more powerful dsp could make a diifference. Audibly different or not we don't know.

Is there a measurement for how powerful a DSP is?

And a measurement for THD+N among the DD/DTS DSP?

I mean DSP’s for discrete DD/TrueHD/Atmos/DTSX have been around in AVRs for a long time. When has this ever been an issue?

Now if we’re talking about non discrete DSP (DSU vs NeuralX, etc.), that’s another thing.

To me, if there are issues, I think it’s in the sound decoding/source and/or user setup (speakers not loud enough because of the source decoding).

But I suppose we’re all making educated guesses.

 

[dlaloum]

Is there a measurement for how powerful a DSP is?

And a measurement for THD+N among the DD/DTS DSP?

I mean DSP’s for discrete DD/TrueHD/Atmos/DTSX have been around in AVRs for a long time. When has this ever been an issue?

Now if we’re talking about non discrete DSP (DSU vs NeuralX, etc.), that’s another thing.

To me, if there are issues, I think it’s in the sound decoding/source and/or user setup (speakers not loud enough because of the source decoding).

But I suppose we’re all making educated guesses.

For an idea of what goes on within a decoder and mixer - I suggest referring to a Historical / Vintage component... look at Lexicons MC12 - and the many, many tuning parameters that are/were available for its Logic7 implementation.

All of those variables are applicable today to our Dolby Surround and DTS decoder/mixers.... but most of them are hidden... and set to the individual manufacturers chosen defaults... which are likely to be different from every other manufacurers chosen defaults.

Hence they can and frequently do, sound different.

At the simplest level, a straight decode of the channels in a Dolby or DTS stream should be identical to every other decode - but as soon as you throw it at a mixer, then all bets are off, and it is down to the AVR/AVP designer and tuner.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At the simplest level, a straight decode of the channels in a Dolby or DTS stream should be identical to every other decode - but as soon as you throw it at a mixer, then all bets are off, and it is down to the AVR/AVP designer and tuner.

What mixer and AVR tuner?

 

[PENG]

But I suppose we’re all making educated guesses.

Not sure about "all", but you and I are.

 

[dlaloum]

What mixer and AVR tuner?

If you use the "Mixer" functions within Auro, Dolby Surround etc.. which assist in getting the surround field to work properly by "mixing" the sound - so for example - the Center spread setting on Dolby surround (critical for listening to stereo through the Dolby Surround mixer) - If listening to 7.1 channels, from a movie with only 5.1 - it is the mixer that will determine what gets sent to the additional 2 channels, and vice versa of course, if listening to a 7.1 recording through 5.1 - the mixer determines how to "mix down". - Stereo into a multichannel surround setup is the most common and obvious example - but 5.1 to 7.4.6 is just as valid an example.... and possibly even more common depending on the individual listeners preferences. (movie watcher rather than music listener)

The "tuner" is the engineers that design and "tune" the AVR - they have to work through all the parameters, and adjust them to achieve the desired sound - and every brand likes to tout how their "tuning" is superior to all others.

If you want to avoid the mixer, and get the pure stream decode - you need to choose the "direct" option on your AVR.... then a 5.1 stream will simply be decoded and sent to the appropriate channels. If you have more channels (whether height or base layer) - they will be silent without the intervention of a mixer.

 

[mtrot]

Congrats! If the 4700 is brand new but from their older stock, you may even ended up with the AKM DAC on board! If not, so fyi, the TI DAC (PCM5102A) is very comparable to the 5200's PCM1690, you can download the data sheets to see the extremely small difference in SINAD yourself.

I always find the "Denon sound", even "Marantz sound" bland and would expect the 5200 would be the same too. If you look at their specs and measurements (where available), you can understand why, all those AVRs in the mid price range should be transparent, that is, amplify the signal linearly without adding their own "sound signature". So if you hear the same quality now, good for you, if not, just get used to it and your ears/brains will eventually agree it sounds the same as the 5200.

That's for music, for movies I would say it is quite likely they will sound a little different but it should be hard to compare without having both hooked up and can be AB compared momentarily. That is near impossible to do for most people but without doing that, anything you perceived is anecdotal to others.

So, now I find out that I failed to diagnose an issue with the interconnect cable connection to the front L pre-out on my 5200. I guess I'm getting too old. Being pretty sure that that front left channel was out on my 5200, I picked up a 4700 and sold my 5200 on Ebay for "repair or parts".

Afterwords, I received feedback from the buyer that it "works great". So, I contacted the buyer to confirm that the front left channel was working and he said he's using the pre-out and, yes, it works. So, I guess I failed to detect some problem with the interconnect cable connection to that pre-out on the 5200. The buyer got a seriously good deal on a pristine condition 5200. Oh, well, at least my 4700 passes the 4k signal from my Oppo UHD Blu-ray player!