Problems With Liberal Democracy

[highfigh]

Imagine if you did some quality reading to become a little informed and knowledgable about your own country instead of just having a number of various unfounded opinions on subjects you don't know much about at all.

You sound just like those audiophools claiming that only people actually owning a device can comment upon it, despite whatever science and measurements says to dispute their claims. Same tired and empty emotional appeals to gloss over their poor arguments and ignorance.

Yeah, reading about it is EXACTLY the same as dealing with it. OK, thanks.

 

[highfigh]

That's why public policy shouldn't be based on personal anecdotes. They can certainly be used to illustrate examples of a particular problem. But, some media personalities and politicians weaponize those anecdotes to mislead the public into believing a problem is more widespread than the data would indicate. Being too close to a problem doesn't always lead to good decisions. That's why doctors shouldn't treat themselves and lawyers shouldn't represent themselves.

My point is, data tells what happened and we need that but from a distance, it's a poor way to get someone to understand something.

You're right about being close to a situation, but look at Paul Pelosi- he was arrested for OWI and people called him a POS, now he's like a rescue dog, with everyone wanting to hug him after being hit with a hammer. We kind of know what happened, but we don't have all of the details.

However, what we do know, from the data, is that hammers are used very often in attacks- DePape would probably be dead if he's had a gun.

 

[Trell]

Yeah, reading about it is EXACTLY the same as dealing with it. OK, thanks.

Being ignorant and fact/knowledge immune is not helpful to deal with anything, is it?

 

[Trell]

You're right about being close to a situation, but look at Paul Pelosi- he was arrested for OWI and people called him a POS, now he's like a rescue dog, with everyone wanting to hug him after being hit with a hammer. We kind of know what happened, but we don't have all of the details.

WTF has the brutal attack on a very old man in his own has to do with this?

Decent people knows there is a difference between him getting a well deserve rap for getting arrested for OWI and getting his head smashed in with a hammer in political violence in his own home. This while the attacker was looking for his wife.

 

[GO-NAD!]

My point is, data tells what happened and we need that but from a distance, it's a poor way to get someone to understand something.

I would suggest that data is the best way to explain something, accompanied by examples to illustrate.

You're right about being close to a situation, but look at Paul Pelosi- he was arrested for OWI and people called him a POS, now he's like a rescue dog, with everyone wanting to hug him after being hit with a hammer. We kind of know what happened, but we don't have all of the details.

I don't know Pelosi. He may be a POS, but the penalty for OWI isn't being beaten nearly to death with a hammer. I would also suggest that knowing that someone broke into his house and assaulted him is enough details for the public. What more would we need to know?

However, what we do know, from the data, is that hammers are used very often in attacks- DePape would probably be dead if he's had a gun.

Even if he had a gun, why would he be carrying it around with him in the house? Data would also show that the mere presence of a gun in a house increases the odds that a member of the household will be injured or killed by a gun.

 

[Mikado463]

Gotta love Pennsyltucky, we even elect dead people !!

Pennsylvania state representative reelected despite being dead

A Pennsylvania state representative was reelected during the midterm elections Tuesday, despite the fact that he died last month. A special election will follow soon for his seat.

www.yahoo.com

 

[panteragstk]

Gotta love Pennsyltucky, we even elect dead people !!

Pennsylvania state representative reelected despite being dead

A Pennsylvania state representative was reelected during the midterm elections Tuesday, despite the fact that he died last month. A special election will follow soon for his seat.

www.yahoo.com

...why was he on the ballet still?

 

[GO-NAD!]

...why was he on the ballet still?

Is that stage version? Weekend at Bernie's: The Ballet.

 

[lovinthehd]

...why was he on the ballet still?

Probably not enough time to make the change? We had someone on our local ballot for city council that took another job with the city and tried to tell everyone he was no longer eligible and please vote for others....but not in time for the ballots to be changed. I'm looking forward when results are posted as to how many votes he still got.

ps sorta on that subject, youtube keeps pointing me to the Chris Rock movie Head of State yesterday and today

 

[mtrycrafts]

Is that stage version? Weekend at Bernie's: The Ballet.

The answer is YES.

 

[highfigh]

I would suggest that data is the best way to explain something, accompanied by examples to illustrate.

I don't know Pelosi. He may be a POS, but the penalty for OWI isn't being beaten nearly to death with a hammer. I would also suggest that knowing that someone broke into his house and assaulted him is enough details for the public. What more would we need to know?


Even if he had a gun, why would he be carrying it around with him in the house? Data would also show that the mere presence of a gun in a house increases the odds that a member of the household will be injured or killed by a gun.

We don't really know DePape's motivation for the attack. The media have reported several possible reasons and the White House issued a statement that has since been retracted, but has some very odd details.

Most people don't carry inside of their home unless they think they'll need it or they just want to act like some kind of cowboy. The accidental gunfire and injuries to gun owners is usually from carelessness or inexperience and while that shouldn't happen, it will if people aren't required to be trained and I think this should be required of all gun owners. Hell, even officers who practice regularly shoot poorly while under stress, so there's no reason to think that someone who almost never touches their gun would be a deadeye when the time comes for them to use it.

My comment had a typo, which I have corrected to say "DePape would probably be dead if he'd had a gun."- since I mentioned DePape, he'd refers to Depape, not Pelosi.

I was saying that if DePape had been there with a gun, he'd probably be dead because the Police arrived while he and Pelosi struggled to take control of the hammer and they witnessed the attack. If he had been holding a gun and aiming at Pelosi, the Police would have shot him.

I never meant that Pelosi deserved any kind of attack- why would you guys think I did?

The reason I mentioned Pelosi at all is because people are reacting to his arrest and the attack emotionally. How is crime scene data collected? Often by interviewing witnesses, right? If that's the case, the witnesses are offering statements that are usually clouded by emotion, so the accuracy isn't always 100% correct.

 

[panteragstk]

Probably not enough time to make the change? We had someone on our local ballot for city council that took another job with the city and tried to tell everyone he was no longer eligible and please vote for others....but not in time for the ballots to be changed. I'm looking forward when results are posted as to how many votes he still got.

ps sorta on that subject, youtube keeps pointing me to the Chris Rock movie Head of State yesterday and today

Hmm. Haven't seen that movie. Granted Chris wrote it so there is that chance it could be good.

 

[GO-NAD!]

We don't really know DePape's motivation for the attack. The media have reported several possible reasons and the White House issued a statement that has since been retracted, but has some very odd details.

Reputable media have reported and prosecutors have released enough statements - without malicious right-wing conjecture - that speculating on motive should be left to the Qanon crowd.
Paul Pelosi attack: Suspect David DePape pleads not guilty, says he was on a ‘suicide mission’ (msn.com)

Most people don't carry inside of their home unless they think they'll need it or they just want to act like some kind of cowboy.

That was my point. Having a gun in the house was unlikely to be of any use to Pelosi because it would be very unlikely that he'd be carrying it around.

The accidental gunfire and injuries to gun owners is usually from carelessness or inexperience and while that shouldn't happen, it will if people aren't required to be trained and I think this should be required of all gun owners. Hell, even officers who practice regularly shoot poorly while under stress, so there's no reason to think that someone who almost never touches their gun would be a deadeye when the time comes for them to use it.

My comment had a typo, which I have corrected to say "DePape would probably be dead if he'd had a gun."- since I mentioned DePape, he'd refers to Depape, not Pelosi.

I was saying that if DePape had been there with a gun, he'd probably be dead because the Police arrived while he and Pelosi struggled to take control of the hammer and they witnessed the attack. If he had been holding a gun and aiming at Pelosi, the Police would have shot him.

It's not just accidents. It's also suicides, homicides amongst household members, as well as at the hands of intruders.
Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Death | Time
Counterintuitive maybe, but true.

I never meant that Pelosi deserved any kind of attack- why would you guys think I did?

The reason I mentioned Pelosi at all is because people are reacting to his arrest and the attack emotionally. How is crime scene data collected? Often by interviewing witnesses, right? If that's the case, the witnesses are offering statements that are usually clouded by emotion, so the accuracy isn't always 100% correct.

You didn't state that Pelosi deserved the attack but, calling him a "POS" hints at it. If that isn't what you were implying, that's fine, I believe you. Pelosi is irrelevant to previous posts where it was stated that personal experience and emotion shouldn't dictate public policy. I am unaware of any significant movement to change public policy based on this incident. If you know of any, please post a link(s).

 

[lovinthehd]

Hmm. Haven't seen that movie. Granted Chris wrote it so there is that chance it could be good.

Been a few years since I saw it but found it entertaining....altho I kinda liked Robin Williams' Man of the Year as far as comedians doing the president thing....

 

[highfigh]

Reputable media have reported and prosecutors have released enough statements - without malicious right-wing conjecture - that speculating on motive should be left to the Qanon crowd.
Paul Pelosi attack: Suspect David DePape pleads not guilty, says he was on a ‘suicide mission’ (msn.com)


That was my point. Having a gun in the house was unlikely to be of any use to Pelosi because it would be very unlikely that he'd be carrying it around.


It's not just accidents. It's also suicides, homicides amongst household members, as well as at the hands of intruders.
Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Death | Time
Counterintuitive maybe, but true.

You didn't state that Pelosi deserved the attack but, calling him a "POS" hints at it. If that isn't what you were implying, that's fine, I believe you. Pelosi is irrelevant to previous posts where it was stated that personal experience and emotion shouldn't dictate public policy. I am unaware of any significant movement to change public policy based on this incident. If you know of any, please post a link(s).

Is NBC reputable, in your mind? That's the network that showed the video from the White House, indicating that Pelosi said he knew DePape and that he walked back from the door when the Police arrived. QAnon can kiss my a$$.

Would you please read the damned words??????????????? I wrote that people thought he was a POS, not that I think he'a a POS! Also, as I wrote as a response to you thinking I was referring to Pelosi having a gun, I DIDN'T MEAN PELOSI! I was saying that if DePape had a gun instead of a hammer, the police would have shot him.

Suicides are the #1 cause of gun deaths. We know that. As far as homicides in the home, people need to accept the fact that they don't get along well enough that a gun should be in the home. I think that denial is much too strong to make them consider removing them.

Not many people deserve being attacked, fewer deserve being attacked with a hammer. DePape is a wingnut and if he suddenly veered to the Right, it was relatively sudden. His ex has said he was Progressive, like her, when they met (quoted by many outlets) and some reports showed that he had lived in Berkley, CA- not exactly a Conservative stronghold, if true.

WRT public policy, give it time- it did happen in California, after all.

 

[highfigh]

Been a few years since I saw it but found it entertaining....altho I kinda liked Robin Williams' Man of the Year as far as comedians doing the president thing....

I liked it- the "How the hell did this happen?" aspect worked and most people like an underdog.

 

[Trell]

Is NBC reputable, in your mind? That's the network that showed the video from the White House, indicating that Pelosi said he knew DePape and that he walked back from the door when the Police arrived.

And then NBC retracted the story when the information given by the unnamed source was found to be unreliable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/11/05/nbc-paul-pelosi-retracted-story/

 

[Trell]

DePape is a wingnut and if he suddenly veered to the Right, it was relatively sudden. His ex has said he was Progressive, like her, when they met (quoted by many outlets) and some reports showed that he had lived in Berkley, CA- not exactly a Conservative stronghold, if true.

The Republicans are in damage control mode over that a MAGA Republican brutally attacked a very old man in his home while looking for his wife.

 

[highfigh]

The Republicans are in damage control mode over that a MAGA Republican brutally attacked a very old man in his home while looking for his wife.

He's not a MAGA or anything to do with the Republicans. Or, you can just post crap that has no basis.

Personally, I don't give a rat's butt what DePape is, he needs to go away and rot somewhere. There's no reason for what he did, for any reason.

MAGA is probably dead and that's a good thing.

 

[highfigh]

And then NBC retracted the story when the information given by the unnamed source was found to be unreliable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/11/05/nbc-paul-pelosi-retracted-story/

Right and they didn't do what they had in the past, which is VERIFY the story. OTOH, Fox is still harping on this one, from the headlines I have seen. They should really get rid of their TV personalities- they all suck.