Coronavirus

[NINaudio]

Are you guys getting your boosters as soon as you're eligible? Or, are you strategically timing them?

https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/your-best-shot

I got my bivalent booster as soon as I was eligible.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Are you guys getting your boosters as soon as you're eligible? Or, are you strategically timing them?

https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/your-best-shot

I've been timing them to some extent.

I had my first booster in November 2021 and I was holding off on the second booster because the number of cases had been low. My plan was to get the second booster when the number of cases started to increase, but I got COVID in July 2021 despite relatively low numbers of cases in my geographic area. In hindsight I wish I'd gotten the second booster 6 months after the first.

I haven't gotten another booster. It's not entirely clear to me if it's best to get a booster after 3 months or wait 6 months after getting COVID.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Well, it's your choice. However, mRNA vaccines are a new technology in that they have only been in widespread clinical use for less than two years now. I understand that they SHOULD not cause much in the way of long term serious adverse effects, but it would be rather unscientific to just assume that. It seems that, based on some of the commenters here, you're so confident about that that you'd say there's no need for continuing clinical trial follow up on the covid shot recipients. Would you say that?

Novavax is not an mRNA vaccine and it has been approved as a first booster. The company "believes" it provides durable protection against variants, but I have not seen proof of this.

Personally, I'm planning to get a bivalent booster. For me, it's just a timing issue.

>>>Novavax’s newly authorized booster was developed against the original strain of Covid but the company believes its protein technology provides durable protection across different variants of the virus. Novavax’s shots rely on more conventional technology used in other vaccines for decades rather than the newer messenger RNA platform used by Pfizer and Moderna.

Novavax said its booster doses triggered robust antibodies against omicron BA.1, BA.2 and the dominant BA.5 subvariant in studies that observed adults who received the third shot 8 to 11 months after receiving their Novavax primary series.

The booster dose also induced an immune response in participants who received Moderna, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson as their primary series, according to the company.<<<

CDC recommends Novavax's Covid shots as mix-and-match first booster to Pfizer or Moderna

Novavax's Covid shots rely on protein technology used in other vaccines for decades, rather than the messenger RNA used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

www.cnbc.com

This article says it "may be" effective against omicron:

>>>Oct 12 (Reuters) - Novavax Inc (NVAX.O) said on Wednesday data from studies in adults and adolescents showed that the booster dose of its COVID vaccine produced robust antibodies against several Omicron variants, including BA.1, BA.2 and BA.5. . . .

In the late-stage study, a single homologous booster dose significantly increased antibody levels against these variants relative to pre-boost levels, the company said.

"These data are an early indication that our vaccine may be effective against variants such as Omicron," Novavax executive Gregory M. Glenn said.<<<

Novavax says COVID booster dose shows benefit against Omicron variants

Novavax Inc said on Wednesday data from studies in adults and adolescents showed that the booster dose of its COVID vaccine produced robust antibodies against several Omicron variants, including BA.1, BA.2 and BA.5.

www.reuters.com

I have to believe Novavax is better than nothing (I realize you are not in the "nothing" category, of course, that's just a general observation/opinion).

 

[Swerd]

Yeah, I'm not as confident as I used to be about the safety of these mRNA vaccines. There seems to be very little covid around here at this time, nothing in the local news. Now, if all of a sudden, there is an outbreak of serious covid causing deaths and severe illness this winter, I would definitely take a booster. In that event, it seems like the benefit would outweigh any risk.

The safety data of the 2 mRNA vaccines, made by Pfizer and Moderna, is quite extensive. The initial data, collected within 3 months after vaccination, came from roughly 30,000 people for each vaccine. That was enough info for the FDA to temporarily approve the vaccines for use because of the emergency nature of the pandemic. But the safety data continued to be collected. After about a year, those temporary approvals became full approvals. However, the safety data continues to be collected and monitored as many more people have been vaccinated. There has been nothing to suggest that mRNA vaccines are not safe. If anything, they seem to elicit much fewer allergic reactions than the old type protein-based vaccines. Often, the viruses for these protein-based vaccines were raised large scale in many thousands of eggs. Many of the allergic reactions to these vaccines were actually allergic responses to egg components, not the virus components. No eggs or no egg products are used in the mRNA vaccines.

Long term side effects and vaccines don't belong in the same sentence. Vaccine side effects reveal themselves within a couple of months. Long term side effects are usually associated with long term use of therapeutic drugs. There is a mountain of evidence supporting the safety and efficacy of COVID mRNA vaccines.

GO-NAD is correct. The toxicities and adverse events caused by vaccinations almost always happen within days or weeks after they've been given. Other drugs, especially some anti-cancer drugs, can be toxic enough to cause toxic side effects that are unknown or unrecognized for years. That is definitely not the case with vaccines.

 

[mtrot]

Novavax is not an mRNA vaccine and it has been approved as a first booster. The company "believes" it provides durable protection against variants, but I have not seen proof of this.

Personally, I'm planning to get a bivalent booster. For me, it's just a timing issue.

>>>Novavax’s newly authorized booster was developed against the original strain of Covid but the company believes its protein technology provides durable protection across different variants of the virus. Novavax’s shots rely on more conventional technology used in other vaccines for decades rather than the newer messenger RNA platform used by Pfizer and Moderna.

Novavax said its booster doses triggered robust antibodies against omicron BA.1, BA.2 and the dominant BA.5 subvariant in studies that observed adults who received the third shot 8 to 11 months after receiving their Novavax primary series.

The booster dose also induced an immune response in participants who received Moderna, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson as their primary series, according to the company.<<<

CDC recommends Novavax's Covid shots as mix-and-match first booster to Pfizer or Moderna

Novavax's Covid shots rely on protein technology used in other vaccines for decades, rather than the messenger RNA used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

www.cnbc.com

This article says it "may be" effective against omicron:

>>>Oct 12 (Reuters) - Novavax Inc (NVAX.O) said on Wednesday data from studies in adults and adolescents showed that the booster dose of its COVID vaccine produced robust antibodies against several Omicron variants, including BA.1, BA.2 and BA.5. . . .

In the late-stage study, a single homologous booster dose significantly increased antibody levels against these variants relative to pre-boost levels, the company said.

"These data are an early indication that our vaccine may be effective against variants such as Omicron," Novavax executive Gregory M. Glenn said.<<<

Novavax says COVID booster dose shows benefit against Omicron variants

Novavax Inc said on Wednesday data from studies in adults and adolescents showed that the booster dose of its COVID vaccine produced robust antibodies against several Omicron variants, including BA.1, BA.2 and BA.5.

www.reuters.com

I have to believe Novavax is better than nothing (I realize you are not in the "nothing" category, of course, that's just a general observation/opinion).

Thanks, very interesting. I'm glad to read that Novavax's shot may work on the new variants.

I'm not asserting that mRNA shots are inherently more risky than a traditional approach like Novavax. I just don't know. And neither am I asserting that mRNA shots are causing these clots that do seem to be occurring in some people.

I quite often argue with people who are claiming that the VAERS system adverse event reports prove that the covid shots are the cause of deaths of young people. People die all the time, and from any number of causes. Just because someone dies after a covid shot does not at all mean that there was a causal relationship. Maybe they just had a naturally high clotting factor and a clot just happened after they received a covid shot. There definitely are rare cases of myocarditis in young males after the mRNA shots, but I'm certainly not a young male!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Thanks, very interesting. I'm glad to read that Novavax's shot may work on the new variants.

I'm not asserting that mRNA shots are inherently more risky than a traditional approach like Novavax. I just don't know. And neither am I asserting that mRNA shots are causing these clots that do seem to be occurring in some people.

I quite often argue with people who are claiming that the VAERS system adverse event reports prove that the covid shots are the cause of deaths of young people. People die all the time, and from any number of causes. Just because someone dies after a covid shot does not at all mean that there was a causal relationship. Maybe they just had a naturally high clotting factor and a clot just happened after they received a covid shot. There definitely are rare cases of myocarditis in young males after the mRNA shots, but I'm certainly not a young male!

There have been cases of myocarditis reported - especially in young men - as a result of vaccination with a mRNA vaccine. However, the chances of developing the condition as a result of a COVID infection are seven times higher. I look at it this way - since all of us will experience this virus at some point, vaccination increases the odds against developing myocarditis.

Vaccines are still important and safe, say experts | Calgary Herald

And:
>>>Of the people who were diagnosed with myocarditis in both the vaccination and COVID-19 groups, 1.07 per cent were hospitalized and 0.015 per cent died.<<<

I just look at the math. The math tells me to get vaccinated. Then, get boosted when and as often as recommended.

 

[Verdinut]

IMO, the mRNA vaccines have been thoroughly tested and proven to be safe, whereas the Novovax hasn't had the same experience and efficiency reporting. I would opt without any hesitation for one of the mRNA products.
So far, I have had two Pfizer and three Moderna shots. No major reaction to any one, just a sensitive shoulder for a couple of days.

 

[mtrot]

There have been cases of myocarditis reported - especially in young men - as a result of vaccination with a mRNA vaccine. However, the chances of developing the condition as a result of a COVID infection are seven times higher. I look at it this way - since all of us will experience this virus at some point, vaccination increases the odds against developing myocarditis.

Vaccines are still important and safe, say experts | Calgary Herald

And:
>>>Of the people who were diagnosed with myocarditis in both the vaccination and COVID-19 groups, 1.07 per cent were hospitalized and 0.015 per cent died.<<<

I just look at the math. The math tells me to get vaccinated. Then, get boosted when and as often as recommended.

Interesting, so if you tested positive for covid two months ago and got well, would you take a booster at this point? Or would you wait about 6 months or so?

 

[ryanosaur]

Interesting, so if you tested positive for covid two months ago and got well, would you take a booster at this point? Or would you wait about 6 months or so?

I wouldn't wait the full 6 mos. They've been saying any immunity of being sick is very short with the Omicrons... I'd say at 3 mos after being sick its worth getting the booster if you are due.

I've been holding out for human trials to complete. I do want the Bivalent booster, but also want to see the data.

Perhaps I'm silly. We'll see.

 

[mtrot]

I wouldn't wait the full 6 mos. They've been saying any immunity of being sick is very short with the Omicrons... I'd say at 3 mos after being sick its worth getting the booster if you are due.

I've been holding out for human trials to complete. I do want the Bivalent booster, but also want to see the data.

Perhaps I'm silly. We'll see.

What is the bivalent booster?

 

[ryanosaur]

What is the bivalent booster?

That the newest one targeting the Omicron variants.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Interesting, so if you tested positive for covid two months ago and got well, would you take a booster at this point? Or would you wait about 6 months or so?

That's a good question. I had it about 6 weeks ago. Current advice here is to get the next booster 6 months after infection or your last booster. I'm on the fence as to getting it in December or waiting the full 6 months.

 

[j_garcia]

CDC official recommendation is 90 days after you tested negative after having it. I am still waiting to be able to get my booster. With Omicron, you can get it as soon as 2 weeks. My friend's kids got it and the older one got it a week after. He gave it back to the younger one a week later.

Does not matter, XBB variant is vaccine resistant and different enough that you can get it within weeks of getting well also.

I was waiting on the bivalent when I got it

 

[mtrot]

That's a good question. I had it about 6 weeks ago. Current advice here is to get the next booster 6 months after infection or your last booster. I'm on the fence as to getting it in December or waiting the full 6 months.

I just saw on national TV news today that RSV, Covid, and flu cases are all spiking now. However, I have not heard that about my local area. For me, December will be about four months after I tested positive. Might be a good time.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I just saw on national TV news today that RSV, Covid, and flu cases are all spiking now. However, I have not heard that about my local area. For me, December will be about four months after I tested positive. Might be a good time.

Same up here, as well. Yeah, it's going to be an interesting Fall. If you will be doing much socializing over the Christmas holidays, maybe it would be a good idea to get a booster before then, especially if you will be seeing vulnerable people. But, I'm not a doctor, so don't base your timing on what I say. I'll be seeing my parents (in their 80's) over Christmas, so I'll be asking my doctor what he thinks. I'll be getting my flu jab, too.

 

[ryanosaur]

Even though I have no social plans, I am hoping to be getting a booster by mid November… so 3 more weeks roughly. Hoping the human trial data comes out by then, or at least more than had been available since I found a limited result discussed about two weeks back.
I will be about 4 mos past having Covid by then.
Conventional advice seems to be that immunity begins waning after around 2 months post infection, assuming an omicron variant.

 

[j_garcia]

It is not spiking here yet, either Cold/Flu or Covid. We just started to go back to the office though, so no doubt it is coming.

 

[RedCharles]

"I thought that Pangolin looked like a big Artichoke".

View attachment 41494

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

Endonuclease fingerprint indicates a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV-2

To prevent future pandemics, it is important that we understand whether SARS-CoV-2 spilled over directly from animals to people, or indirectly in a laboratory accident. The genome of SARS-COV-2 contains a peculiar pattern of unique restriction endonuclease recognition sites allowing efficient...

www.biorxiv.org

 

[Mr._Clark]

Endonuclease fingerprint indicates a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV-2

To prevent future pandemics, it is important that we understand whether SARS-CoV-2 spilled over directly from animals to people, or indirectly in a laboratory accident. The genome of SARS-COV-2 contains a peculiar pattern of unique restriction endonuclease recognition sites allowing efficient...

www.biorxiv.org

You'd have to admit that the biorx preprint does not disprove the hypothesis that pangolins look like giant artichokes.

 

[Swerd]

What is the bivalent booster?

The original mRNA vaccines, made by Pfizer and Moderna, were tested in 2020 and put into use starting in December 2020 and January 2021. The mRNA in both of them contained the coding sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus spike protein as it was first sequenced in 2019.

The bivalent booster vaccine contains two spike protein coding sequences – the original 2019 version (same as above) plus sequences from last year's Omicron BA.4 and BA.5 variants. There are now educated guesses about how well it should work, but we'll find out for certain this next winter.

I got mine nearly 2 weeks ago. At the same time, I also got this year's flu vaccine in the other shoulder.

I wouldn't wait to get the bivalent booster. November and December, the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, have often been when viral diseases get widely spread. If you get the booster now, you will have allowed the roughly 2 weeks needed by your immune system to fully react to the booster before those holidays begin.