I feel like it’s worth noting…
I bought the desktop MultEQ X, some time ago, and spent more time than probably reasonable, taking and retaking measurements, modifying curtains and crossovers to combat room modes, using measurements to help find ideal speaker placements…. I’m no expert, but I’ve spent time in the trenches wit my setup.
I think ARC may very well be the differentiator here. But there’s too many fundamental differences to say for sure.
I love my Denon, and I’ve had many… quality product.
This is just a different thing (so far).
I’ll continue to tinker. See if I can take learnings from what ARC is doing, and apply them to my starting setup, and see what can translate.
As well as just switch back n fourth as best possible.
My goal here has not been: spend ALL the money.
It’s been, curiosity + a bunch of tweak listen, learn, tweak listen learn… curiosity.
Hopefully the shiny new thing, thing will dissipate, and I can be more discerning and as analytical as possible, up until my return date.
Speaking of.
What’s the fundamental technology behind REW? Is it simply SPL as a f(x) of frequency?
Or might it have some functionality in the realm of phase, amplitude, harmonics?
I’m not opposed to getting a umik and REW, and trying to provide myself (or y’all) some sort of quantitative comparison.
Since you have MultEq X, can you try the following, if not yet?
First it goes without saying that with Audyssey you must follow the instruction to the letter, with a few minor exceptions. For example, make sure the room is quiet, with HVAC off for sure (wife may complain but she can put on a jacket if too cold during the 30 minute auto setup), and use at least 6 mic positions with 20 to 18 inch (manual says 24 inch, but..) between each positions, mic points straight up to the ceiling and make sure it is at least an inch (I would go with 2") above your couch back (instruction says ear heights, but..).
The 2 suggested rear positions shown on the screen should be avoided unless your couch is a few feet away from the wall. I know all these seem trivial but I found that they are important factors. AARC may be less sensitive to those minor details.
1) Limit the EQ range for all channels to 6,000 Hz, or as low as 300 Hz just to level the playfield.
2) Before you send it to the AVR, select the default roll off setting (though if you did 1), if wouldn't matter much.
3) Enable DEQ, disable DV
4) Adjust the target curve to match that with AARC's. It may be hard to match them exactly but just try your best.
For the EQ range, it may be better to limit both to 300 Hz just to make sure if that closes the gap between the two devices being compared. Both allow you to select multiple profiles anyway so you can set to range to higher, such as 6000 Hz later.
If I remember right, the Denon allow you to save two profiles, so when running Audyssey using MultEQ X, you should save two files, one with MRC enabled and the other disabled. Then you can send both to the AVR and can flip between the two to find out which one sounds better to you.
Keep in mind, any changes you made, will not affect the flat curve so you must select the reference curve during you comparison listening sessions. MRC is NOT disabled even if you use the flat curve unless you select MRC "disabled" between sending the files to the AVR.
I suggest the above only because you clearly are trying to be as objective as possible, before spending the extra dollars. So while you still have time, take the opportunity to do more fact finding.
Like
@lovinthehd,
@AcuDefTechGuy ,
@Pogre ,
@Verdinut and a few others, we are the ones who can say, been there, done that..... That is, we have spent all sorts of money on preamp, power amps (so called separates), even external dacs, sacd/universal players (Oppo, Denon...), and we learnt over the years that electronics are factors for sure but it is not hard to get pass the point of diminishing return that you mentioned. Once you are at or near that point, the dominant factors are always the following:
- speaker, room acoustic, RC software (hence the debate on Audyssey vs AARC, vs DL vs Trinnov vs MSO, vs Roomperfect vs minidsp/REW et...).
- source contents, in terms of genres, recording, mastering quality (that are also dependent on the quality of the equipment/devices (e.g. mics, mixers) and the knowledge, skill, talent, style of the recording engineers etc.
As someone who has been in this hobby for decades and have done extensive reading in related topics, I am very confident to say whatever differences between the two you are hearing are not caused by the hardware, and that if compared blind, level matched, in direct/pure direct mode they will indeed sound virtually the same when operating within their limits.
My recommendation earlier on keeping the Anthem and return the Denon is only based on all else being equal, since you clearly prefer the "sound" of the Anthem, in the long run it may be easier to forget the extra money you spent than to forget about the better sound whether that better is real, Placebo, or both.
I find your posts/questions most interesting because while you appear to be one who are lean on the subjective side, you also don't give up easily on the objective measurements and the perceived value of the much cheaper Denon based on the costs.
The reason I mentioned a few other members (HD has already done his part..) is that I know they are very experienced in this field. Some, such as
@AcuDefTechGuy had actually owned one of the best AV preamp/processor ever made, in the time before the object oriented sound processing such as Atmos, DTX
ro, as well as some very powerful external amplifiers. I thought may be those guys can chime in and help you make a final more informed decision.
