AVR for 2.1 HiFi?

[lovinthehd]

Exactly.
For movies it is OK i think. Problem is for music as I would like that pre-out sub and front get full range signal from a stereo source

That's achievable with a LFE+Main setting which allows use of a sub up to a given low pass point and provides full range for the speakers (or you can simply use the LFE setting in stereo sound mode and use the crossover for the sub).

 

[PENG]

Exactly.
For movies it is OK i think. Problem is for music as I would like that pre-out sub and front get full range signal from a stereo source

If you set the speakers to large, and bass to LFE+Main, then both your mains and subwoofer pre outs will get full range signal.

That is the case regardless of stereo or direct mode. I am 100% sure that is the case for the X4000H series. You can have the sub on even in pure direct mode but no Audessy that's all.

For the 3000 series, I am 90% sure, but @Verdinut can confirm that since he has the x3700h.

 

[lovinthehd]

Like this
Even if Thomann's DSP is balanced only, I can send the signal via RCA (2V) and then 6.3mm jack / XLR to the DSP and the amp.

View attachment 57852

So all the levels work out with that unit for output from avr as well as output from the dsp box? Is that the t.racks model or ? Gotta link?

 

[lovinthehd]

If you set the speakers to large, and bass to LFE+Main, then both your mains and subwoofer pre outs will get full range signal.

That is the case regardless of stereo or direct mode. I am 100% sure that is the case for the X4000H series. You can have the sub on even in pure direct mode but no Audessy that's all.

For the 3000 series, I am 90% sure, but @Verdinut can confirm that since he has the x3700h.

If you set the crossover in LFE+Main why would the sub pre-out be full range?

 

[Eppie]

If you set the crossover in LFE+Main why would the sub pre-out be full range?

Yes, my understanding is that the crossover for the subwoofer out is always active. LFE and LFE+Main affects what bass content is sent to the sub, per the manual excerpt that Peng posted. I suppose you could set the speakers to large so that they get a full range signal and then set the sub crossover to the highest frequency and then let the external DSP set the crossover point below that.

 

[Verdinut]

If you set the speakers to large, and bass to LFE+Main, then both your mains and subwoofer pre outs will get full range signal.

That is the case regardless of stereo or direct mode. I am 100% sure that is the case for the X4000H series. You can have the sub on even in pure direct mode but no Audessy that's all.

For the 3000 series, I am 90% sure, but @Verdinut can confirm that since he has the x3700h.

Unfortunately, I couldn't say as my front speakers are full range and I'm not using separate subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, my understanding is that the crossover for the subwoofer out is always active. LFE and LFE+Main affects what bass content is sent to the sub, per the manual excerpt that Peng posted. I suppose you could set the speakers to large so that they get a full range signal and then set the sub crossover to the highest frequency and then let the external DSP set the crossover point below that.

The OP wanted to specifically run his speakers full range and add a sub in....and I'm more referring to use of avr alone to achieve that rather than the external dsp route....

 

[PENG]

If you set the crossover in LFE+Main why would the sub pre-out be full range?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, he can use a splitter so the power amp for the sub will get the full range signal. That's not something I would do but that seem's to be what the OP wants to do. May be he prefers to do bass management with his Thomann device?

The LFE+Main is the other option, and I can see that I shouldn't have lumped the sub out together with the main pre outs.

 

[PENG]

Unfortunately, I couldn't say as my front speakers are full range and I'm not using separate subs.

What I asked you to confirm is that in direct and even pure direct mode, the subout can still be on/active, not disabled. I know it is the case for the 4000 series, just need you to confirm the 3000 series can do that too.

I am only 90% sure it can, because the owner's manual is, as the OP mentioned, not very clear about it. See his post#8.

 

[lovinthehd]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, he can use a splitter so the power amp for the sub will get the full range signal. That's not something I would do but that seem's to be what the OP wants to do. May be he prefers to do bass management with his Thomann device?

The LFE+Main is the other option, and I can see that I shouldn't have lumped the sub out together with the main pre outs.

Like I said, my comment was more about using the avr alone. If using external dsp that is capable I'd probably not bother with the sub pre-out at all....

 

[PENG]

Like I said, my comment was more about using the avr alone. If using external dsp that is capable I'd probably not bother with the sub pre-out at all....

I know, me too, may be you can convince him ro just use the AVR.

 

[Verdinut]

What I asked you to confirm is that in direct and even pure direct mode, the subout can still be on/active, not disabled. I know it is the case for the 4000 series, just need you to confirm the 3000 series can do that too.

I am only 90% sure it can, because the owner's manual is, as the OP mentioned, not very clear about it. See his post#8.

I can't verify that as I don't have any spare powered sub. My current subs which are in each of the front speaker cabinets use SpeakOn connectors, and I don't have any spare amp for testing. Sorry.

 

[lovinthehd]

I know, me too, may be you can convince him ro just use the AVR.

Was trying

 

[PENG]

I can't verify that as I don't have any spare powered sub. My current subs which are in each of the front speaker cabinets use SpeakOn connectors, and I don't have any spare amp for testing. Sorry.

May be @ryanosaur wouldn't mind doing it, he has the Marantz 6000 series that has the same features. Thanks anyway

 

[ryanosaur]

May be @ryanosaur wouldn't mind doing it, he has the Marantz 6000 series that has the same features. Thanks anyway

If I have it straight in my head, in Pure (or is it Direct) they are active, but not in Pure Direct...
This happened a few months back where somehow it got triggered and things were pretty sqirrely as my mains were trying really hard to pump out some infrasonic content. Somehow the Marantz control App wouldn't switch off when I told it too and I thought my Phils were were gonna blow!

 

[lovinthehd]

If I have it straight in my head, in Pure (or is it Direct) they are active, but not in Pure Direct...
This happened a few months back where somehow it got triggered and things were pretty sqirrely as my mains were trying really hard to pump out some infrasonic content. Somehow the Marantz control App wouldn't switch off when I told it too and I thought my Phils were were gonna blow!

Only difference in D&M units afaik between direct and pure direct is turning off of video circuit (like the front panel). Now I gotta go play with settings to see if I can do direct with an actual sub/speaker crossover or if it's just available in LFE+Main (with sub low pass set via crossover) as I seem to have found it set after I last did it....

 

[_Alex_]

Before heading down the separates road I'd like to know what the speakers are (make and model numbers please) and the room dimensions and speaker positions.

Hello,

I built my speakers, based on Troels' Gravesen Design: HERE

Roughly, what it would look like. Note that I cannot push them wider because I just don't want to. I have already bookshelves and children toys taking 90% of my walls

My first impression is can you shift the Towers wider (and keep them away from the walls a bit) to accommodate a center better. I'm also thinking new equipment would be best purchased in pieces to see if you really need to go to separate amplifiers to get the results you want. Perhaps the Denon receivers being suggested would be enough power; and the system would be vastly less complicated and less costly. If they are deemed not suitable, then buy the separates after your in home listening tests are completed. Using the $$ currently destined for the separates could probably buy a better Center and or Sub.

I get the message. For sure, when I have the AVR I'll listen it without all the separates. If it's enough, then perfect! Every € that can be saved is welcomed

 

[_Alex_]

So all the levels work out with that unit for output from avr as well as output from the dsp box? Is that the t.racks model or ? Gotta link?

T.racks DSP 4x4 mini

 

[_Alex_]

@lovinthehd @PENG @ryanosaur @Verdinut @Eppie You guys are just absolutly awsome!!!
Thanks a lot for being patient and doing some tests for me.
I could use the AVR only, true. And honestly if it does the job I will. The only problem is if it doesn't meet my expectations. Then I would like to be able to do Eq + XO the way I want and have power without distorsion with PowerAmps.
As @PENG mentionned, if it is possible to have "large" on main speakers and LFE + main on subwoofer with HPF to the highest frequency possible and let the external DSP do the job on "straight"/"pure"/"pure direct"/ "whatever nonDSP mode" , it's clearly all that I need.

 

[PENG]

@lovinthehd @PENG @ryanosaur @Verdinut @Eppie You guys are just absolutly awsome!!!
Thanks a lot for being patient and doing some tests for me.
I could use the AVR only, true. And honestly if it does the job I will. The only problem is if it doesn't meet my expectations. Then I would like to be able to do Eq + XO the way I want and have power without distorsion with PowerAmps.
As @PENG mentionned, if it is possible to have "large" on main speakers and LFE + main on subwoofer with HPF to the highest frequency possible and let the external DSP do the job on "straight"/"pure"/"pure direct"/ "whatever nonDSP mode" , it's clearly all that I need.

You seem to be going after the used market, if you can find an AVR-X4400H (the one I am using for HT now) for the same money or a couple hundred dollars more than the X3500H or X3600H, then I would highly recommend you go for it. The X4400H for sure can have the subout active in direct and pure direct mode.

The AVR-X4500H is better but I know the X4400H is reliable and bug free.

It also has the 2 channel playback menu, whether you need it or not but it is good to have more options.