Home audio, Whats better than naim muso 2 i want to upgrade it? i want reference sound

[elf4o]

Hi everyone i own naim muso 2, but i am looking to upgrade it, since i dont justify the price tag price/per quality i receive. my unit is still brand new with warranty so i plan to sale it and get something else.


I live in rented place so i dont have big or huge space, do you think kef ls 50 wireless ii is good upgrade option or not?
If Kef wireless ls 50 ii is not a good option what you can reccomend i will preffer if possible all in one wireless solution , because my previous set ups was with cables which i dont like cables amps and things which consumes tons of space...
other option is KEF R3 ,or perlisten s4s , i am not sure if i will be able to afford them, 2nd option,
or kef meta, which i think will be not enough quality for me. i cant hear any of these speakers since they are not sold in my country so i will buy them online and import them from abroad.
any other options are welcomed.

i want reference sound

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone i own naim muso 2, but i am looking to upgrade it, since i dont justify the price tag price/per quality i receive. my unit is still brand new with warranty so i plan to sale it and get something else.


I live in rented place so i dont have big or huge space, do you think kef ls 50 wireless ii is good upgrade option or not?
If Kef wireless ls 50 ii is not a good option what you can reccomend i will preffer if possible all in one wireless solution , because my previous set ups was with cables which i dont like cables amps and things which consumes tons of space...
other option is KEF R3 ,or perlisten s4s , i am not sure if i will be able to afford them, 2nd option,
or kef meta, which i think will be not enough quality for me. i cant hear any of these speakers since they are not sold in my country so i will buy them online and import them from abroad.
any other options are welcomed.

i want reference sound

That Naim unit is basically a sound bar, so you won't get high performance out of that. It has novel connectivity.

The Perlisten is a surround speaker and has an F3 of 100 Hertz, so that would be useless without a sub. So that is not suitable.

The KEF R3 is more promising, that is a fully fledged bookshelf speaker with an F3 of 50 Hz. However that will need a receiver or integrated amp to drive it, and will require wiring.

I think you are whistling pipe dreams honestly. You will not get the quality you are after without building out a fully fledged system. In audio size matters.

 

[Cos]

1. Budget
2. Location where you live
3. Why do you want to upgrade, what do you feel you are missing?

That would help, Kef and Perlisten are solid speaker options, but you need to provide more context. To be honest now sure how that device drives 75w per channel into those tiny speakers, but I am not an engineer.

Have you looked at the Kef LSX II, might be a decent to keep it simple and be s significant upgrade to your soundbar.

 

[elf4o]

That Naim unit is basically a sound bar, so you won't get high performance out of that. It has novel connectivity.

The Perlisten is a surround speaker and has an F3 of 100 Hertz, so that would be useless without a sub. So that is not suitable.

The KEF R3 is more promising, that is a fully fledged bookshelf speaker with an F3 of 50 Hz. However that will need a receiver or integrated amp to drive it, and will require wiring.

I think you are whistling pipe dreams honestly. You will not get the quality you are after without building out a fully fledged system. In audio size matters.

Hello i am aware ,
that if i buy wired speakers i will need to buy separate/dedicate amp as well which i dont mind as long as quality is there.

1. Budget
2. Location where you live
3. Why do you want to upgrade, what do you feel you are missing?

That would help, Kef and Perlisten are solid speaker options, but you need to provide more context. To be honest now sure how that device drives 75w per channel into those tiny speakers, but I am not an engineer.

Have you looked at the Kef LSX II, might be a decent to keep it simple and be s significant upgrade to your soundbar.

i dont have any specific budget but it will be at least 2000 euro for speakers. I live in Bg, which is in Europe no brick and mortar stores here, so i cant test anything i can import anything from Europe all brands, Perslistein is more rare.

Currently i am missing mid,and high range.... and quality is not there...


Naim muso 2 is not a soundbar its wireless speakers,


lsx ii is budget option i dont like it i will preffer kef


wireless ls 50 ii 2nd generation.
or something better which i dont know what is it..

Brand wise i dont mind any brand as long as its reference sound the other option i like is KEF REFERENCE 1.


Also i am missing VOLUME i am into 30 m 2 room,
and that muso 2 is weak volume is weak even at almost maximum level........... spl i think its around 70-80 spl maximum when i listen to music... no way to measure it but based on the dxo mark article i bet its around these numbers and thats the best numbers it probably even lower.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello i am aware ,
that if i buy wired speakers i will need to buy separate/dedicate amp as well which i dont mind as long as quality is there.







i dont have any specific budget but it will be at least 2000 euro for speakers. I live in Bg, which is in Europe no brick and mortar stores here, so i cant test anything i can import anything from Europe all brands, Perslistein is more rare.

Currently i am missing mid,and high range.... and quality is not there...


Naim muso 2 is not a soundbar its wireless speakers,


lsx ii is budget option i dont like it i will preffer kef


wireless ls 50 ii 2nd generation.
or something better which i dont know what is it..

Brand wise i dont mind any brand as long as its reference sound the other option i like is KEF REFERENCE 1.


Also i am missing VOLUME i am into 30 m 2 room,
and that muso 2 is weak volume is weak even at almost maximum level........... spl i think its around 70-80 spl maximum when i listen to music... no way to measure it but based on the dxo mark article i bet its around these numbers and thats the best numbers it probably even lower.

I have had a second look at that wretched Muso units user manual. It seems all about connectivity, but very sparse about the speaker connections, and seems to use a protocol I am not familiar with and doubt many are. Wireless speakers are just not ready for prime time yet. At this time it seem the weight is coming down on the wisa protocol.

I think that unit will be a hard sell. That is just the sort of unit you need to run fast in the opposite direction from.

I would strongly recommend that you go with a wired system. I can't stress this enough. If this is audio only then get an integrated amp, speakers you like and a streamer. The problem with this is that these amps do not as a rule have bass management. These days subs are recommended especially with smaller speakers.

So that brings the weight down on the side of AV receivers or pre/pro and separate amps. Then you can get a picture along with your audio and have bass management.

I have no idea what speakers are available to you in Bulgaria, or anything else for that matter.

 

[elf4o]

I have had a second look at that wretched Muso units user manual. It seems all about connectivity, but very sparse about the speaker connections, and seems to use a protocol I am not familiar with and doubt many are. Wireless speakers are just not ready for prime time yet. At this time it seem the weight is coming down on the wisa protocol.

I think that unit will be a hard sell. That is just the sort of unit you need to run fast in the opposite direction from.

I would strongly recommend that you go with a wired system. I can't stress this enough. If this is audio only then get an integrated amp, speakers you like and a streamer. The problem with this is that these amps do not as a rule have bass management. These days subs are recommended especially with smaller speakers.

So that brings the weight down on the side of AV receivers or pre/pro and separate amps. Then you can get a picture along with your audio and have bass management.

I have no idea what speakers are available to you in Bulgaria, or anything else for that matter.

Hi Not sure if you are aware
but Naim is extremely high end brand - they install premium music in Bentley,
and people are crazy for Naim, i already have several offers for the muso 2 , so its an easy sale.
To summarize it naim uses 6 speakers which are small class d amp 75w each...
according to naim it have mid/low/high////

https://www.dxomark.com/speakers/Naim/Mu-so-2nd-Generation here is more info on naim specs.
Naim also have wired connection everything you may need, usb, aux, hdmi, optical connector everything, wifi blue tooth..

Naim doesnt use wisa protocol- which is CRAP.
For wisa protocol you need to have dedicated additional unit, which consumes more space/ more heat/ and more power thats not wireless thats tons of cables and gear, naim have only 1 power cable and thats all......
you can connect all phones,all laptops,all computers everything wireless or with cables... its up to user.

I dont care about dolby atmost - or spatial audio, which is gimmick, i will use speakers to play stereo music only.


As i mentioned in the past speakers will be imported either from USA/Canada or Europe ,we dont have market or brick and mortar or anything for high end audio...
I am considering wired system as well...
i am considering 3 way bookshelves speakers and + 1 amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi Not sure if you are aware
but Naim is extremely high end brand - they install premium music in Bentley,
and people are crazy for Naim, i already have several offers for the muso 2 , so its an easy sale.
To summarize it naim uses 6 speakers which are small class d amp 75w each...
according to naim it have mid/low/high////

https://www.dxomark.com/speakers/Naim/Mu-so-2nd-Generation here is more info on naim specs.
Naim also have wired connection everything you may need, usb, aux, hdmi, optical connector everything, wifi blue tooth..

Naim doesnt use wisa protocol- which is CRAP.
For wisa protocol you need to have dedicated additional unit, which consumes more space/ more heat/ and more power thats not wireless thats tons of cables and gear, naim have only 1 power cable and thats all......
you can connect all phones,all laptops,all computers everything wireless or with cables... its up to user.

I dont care about dolby atmost - or spatial audio, which is gimmick, i will use speakers to play stereo music only.


As i mentioned in the past speakers will be imported either from USA/Canada or Europe ,we dont have market or brick and mortar or anything for high end audio...
I am considering wired system as well...
i am considering 3 way bookshelves speakers and + 1 amp.

I am well aware who NAIM are, and I agree they have produced some very fine products over the years. Your unit however seems totally misconceived. The primary problem is that there is no agreed protocols at present for wireless speaker systems. The only systems that have shown promise use the wisa protocol. Now is not the time to get into wireless speakers, but it is getting closer.

A book shelf speaker does not need to be a three way. If you are not going to use a sub, which I recommend if you are going the bookshelf route, then an integrated amp will fit the bill. However these are now ridiculously expensive and bad value for money. So believe it or not an AV receiver is your cheapest solution by far.

Marantz have this nice 2 channel receiver that has bass management and good connectivity.

I would consider speakers from KEF and Dynaudio in your part of the world. That will save you having to ship from the US.

 

[elf4o]

I am well aware who NAIM are, and I agree they have produced some very fine products over the years. Your unit however seems totally misconceived. The primary problem is that there is no agreed protocols at present for wireless speaker systems. The only systems that have shown promise use the wisa protocol. Now is not the time to get into wireless speakers, but it is getting closer.

A book shelf speaker does not need to be a three way. If you are not going to use a sub, which I recommend if you are going the bookshelf route, then an integrated amp will fit the bill. However these are now ridiculously expensive and bad value for money. So believe it or not an AV receiver is your cheapest solution by far.

Marantz have this nice 2 channel receiver that has bass management and good connectivity.

I would consider speakers from KEF and Dynaudio in your part of the world. That will save you having to ship from the US.

Naim unit have All the wireless protocols without (wisa ), wifi, blue tooth, air play from apple chrome cast
Apple AirPlay 2, Chromecast Built-in, UPnPTM, Spotify® Connect, TIDAL, Roon Ready, Bluetooth, Internet Radio през Ethernet , Wi-Fi, ARC HDMI USB , optical audio, analogue audio 3,5 mm.
Muso 2 have several awards 1 from eisa and several from other places, unit sounds great and offer great connectivity, the only issue i am having is when i compare the unit to focal utopia in my car, and audioson thesis sax ii and class ab amps its sound not that loud and not that clear...
thats why i want to upgrade it.

I decided to pass on wisa protocol i consider it junk, piece of technology will be passed like the blu ray players...
Wifi and blue tooth exist more than 20 so they are here to stay. Thats why i decide to pass wisa.
I play music from my phone via airplay,or wireless or blue tooth depends on the phone same with my laptop blue tooth is cool from my pc i preffer cable optical audio or 3.5mm audio...

I dont want to use sub, because it takes more space and also more cables and more things.

I have vintage speakers home theater cinema 5.1 with sub and i dont want to have the same nightmare with endless dust, cables, etcs....... and so many useless stuff... For the amp i preffer to use class a/b amp i dont like class d amps thats why i want to upgrade from muso i dont find cool class d amp., i use in my car mosconi pro series class ab and before that i use to own several class d amps....
i never liked them.
So far i have not found perfect speakers price per quality..

Kef is upgrading now all of their lines i think they will probably upgrade R3 at some point with meta....
now they have reference 1 with meta but its ultra expensive 9000$
how bad reference 1 without meta?
Compared to ls50 meta, and R3,i am also looking to the monitor audio
Platinum PL100 II and gold 100.

 

[TLS Guy]

Naim unit have All the wireless protocols without (wisa ), wifi, blue tooth, air play from apple chrome cast
Apple AirPlay 2, Chromecast Built-in, UPnPTM, Spotify® Connect, TIDAL, Roon Ready, Bluetooth, Internet Radio през Ethernet , Wi-Fi, ARC HDMI USB , optical audio, analogue audio 3,5 mm.
Muso 2 have several awards 1 from eisa and several from other places, unit sounds great and offer great connectivity, the only issue i am having is when i compare the unit to focal utopia in my car, and audioson thesis sax ii and class ab amps its sound not that loud and not that clear...
thats why i want to upgrade it.

I decided to pass on wisa protocol i consider it junk, piece of technology will be passed like the blu ray players...
Wifi and blue tooth exist more than 20 so they are here to stay. Thats why i decide to pass wisa.
I play music from my phone via airplay,or wireless or blue tooth depends on the phone same with my laptop blue tooth is cool from my pc i preffer cable optical audio or 3.5mm audio...

I dont want to use sub, because it takes more space and also more cables and more things.

I have vintage speakers home theater cinema 5.1 with sub and i dont want to have the same nightmare with endless dust, cables, etcs....... and so many useless stuff... For the amp i preffer to use class a/b amp i dont like class d amps thats why i want to upgrade from muso i dont find cool class d amp., i use in my car mosconi pro series class ab and before that i use to own several class d amps....
i never liked them.
So far i have not found perfect speakers price per quality..

Kef is upgrading now all of their lines i think they will probably upgrade R3 at some point with meta....
now they have reference 1 with meta but its ultra expensive 9000$
how bad reference 1 without meta?
Compared to ls50 meta, and R3,i am also looking to the monitor audio
Platinum PL100 II and gold 100.

So far wisa has the best wireless speaker protocol however, and the heavy hitters are stating to get behind it for that application. There are some excellent class D amps now and along with everything else bad ones. Class D amps based on the Hypex modules for instance are first class and highly reliable.

I would take a good look at Dynaudio for bookshelf speakers and also Neumann. The latter have some excellent active speakers with DSP. then you would not need a power amp.

 

[elf4o]

So far wisa has the best wireless speaker protocol however, and the heavy hitters are stating to get behind it for that application. There are some excellent class D amps now and along with everything else bad ones. Class D amps based on the Hypex modules for instance are first class and highly reliable.

I would take a good look at Dynaudio for bookshelf speakers and also Neumann. The latter have some excellent active speakers with DSP. then you would not need a power amp.

I still dont think class d amps can beat some class ab which cost 5000$ for example...


How about powers and wilkinsons, do they have reference good class in my budget even used or not at all or other high end brands?

 

[TLS Guy]

I still dont think class d amps can beat some class ab which cost 5000$ for example...


How about powers and wilkinsons, do they have reference good class in my budget even used or not at all or other high end brands?

Class D amps measure as well or better than class AB amps. In the high power class I think it is now fair to say they are superior. I know nothing about Wilkinsons.

Active speakers with DSP are now coming of age, and will overtake passive speakers probably sooner than people realize.

 

[elf4o]

Class D amps measure as well or better than class AB amps. In the high power class I think it is now fair to say they are superior. I know nothing about Wilkinsons.

Active speakers with DSP are now coming of age, and will overtake passive speakers probably sooner than people realize.

I personally doubt
that active speakers will overtake passive ones,
because for passive speakers u can also add dsp higher quality and higher quality amps etcs...
for active u cant do much...
have you ever heard reference 1 from kef are they any good? or any other reference from kef like reference 3

 

[TLS Guy]

I personally doubt
that active speakers will overtake passive ones,
because for passive speakers u can also add dsp higher quality and higher quality amps etcs...
for active u cant do much...
have you ever heard reference 1 from kef are they any good? or any other reference from kef like reference 3

There are no higher quality amps than Hypex modules. Active speakers are really catching on. I have been designing and building them for years. Passive crossovers are significant quality spoilers, way worse than even a relatively poor amp. Amps do belong in speakers. Active crossovers and amps in the speakers offer a quantum leap in improved performance. Only DSP in the speakers allows for perfect time alignment of the crossover for greatly improved transient response. New start ups like Sigberg Audio and Double Dutch are showing the way, with innovative designs with previously unheard of measurements and spl in such diminutive speakers.

Things are changing, so pay attention.

 

[lovinthehd]

There are no higher quality amps than Hypex modules. Active speakers are really catching on. I have been designing and building them for years. Passive crossovers are significant quality spoilers, way worse than even a relatively poor amp. Amps do belong in speakers. Active crossovers and amps in the speakers offer a quantum leap in improved performance. Only DSP in the speakers allows for perfect time alignment of the crossover for greatly improved transient response. New start ups like Sigberg Audio and Double Dutch are showing the way, with innovative designs with previously unheard of measurements and spl in such diminutive speakers.

Things are changing, so pay attention.

Actually the Purifi modules came out a bit ahead of the slightly older Hypex, but Bruno Putzeys has a hand in both, too....

 

[elf4o]

How much these

Purifi modules
Hypex modules. cost ? I never heard about them.

 

[MrBoat]

How much these

Purifi modules
Hypex modules. cost ? I never heard about them.

These modules, along with Icepower (Bang and Olufsen) end up in some high-end amps often rebranded as something else. I'm old enough to be stubborn about class D, but have built amps from all the different classes and I really appreciate the lack of heat, especially now in August in the southern U.S.

Google Hypex and Purifi. There are even kits with chassis and everything that are mostly plug and play type assembly. I built (assembled, more like.) an Icepower ASC200 2 channel kit and it is potent and never gets hot. It's the medium sized box in the middle. Excuse the mess. I had just gotten thru assembling it and hastily threw together a session with it on my table. It's a Tascam CD player on the bottom, the Icepower module/Ghent chassis in the middle, and a budget Chinese tube preamp on top. I am a loud music listener. I tend to listen above 85db.

 

[elf4o]

These modules, along with Icepower (Bang and Olufsen) end up in some high-end amps often rebranded as something else. I'm old enough to be stubborn about class D, but have built amps from all the different classes and I really appreciate the lack of heat, especially now in August in the southern U.S.

Google Hypex and Purifi. There are even kits with chassis and everything that are mostly plug and play type assembly. I built (assembled, more like.) an Icepower ASC200 2 channel kit and it is potent and never gets hot. It's the medium sized box in the middle. Excuse the mess. I had just gotten thru assembling it and hastily threw together a session with it on my table. It's a Tascam CD player on the bottom, the Icepower module/Ghent chassis in the middle, and a budget Chinese tube preamp on top. I am a loud music listener. I tend to listen above 85db.

View attachment 57556

I cant assemble my self amp i was thinking of getting used hegel amp are they any good? Kef works with hegel i think most hegel are class ab

 

[TLS Guy]

I cant assemble my self amp i was thinking of getting used hegel amp are they any good? Kef works with hegel i think most hegel are class ab

Mr. Boat has given you the correct information. Most active speakers use either Hypex or Purifi modules. We are not suggesting you DIY unless you want to. The point is that you should not be adverse to class D. It just seems to me that your situation is ripe for an active speaker solution. It is the active solution where the potential of greatly improved performance comes from in addition to reducing clutter.

 

[elf4o]

Mr. Boat has given you the correct information. Most active speakers use either Hypex or Purifi modules. We are not suggesting you DIY unless you want to. The point is that you should not be adverse to class D. It just seems to me that your situation is ripe for an active speaker solution. It is the active solution where the potential of greatly improved performance comes from in addition to reducing clutter.

If i buy hegel amp will this improve sound quality? Of Kef r3

 

[TLS Guy]

If i buy hegel amp will this improve sound quality? Of Kef r3

Amps with enough power to drive a given speaker adequately will not change the sound of a speaker, that is BS from the ignorant. So an amp of sufficient power to drive the load is what is required. I tend choose amps for their likelihood of a long trouble free life. That is what really separates the men from the boys.