Has gene ever used wire world cables?

[ssmokeyy]

Morning,
I'm not sure how to ask gene directly but I found this company in Florida that has been making cables for years and there not cheap. These cables look nice and they talk alot about what they use in them like sliver and type of copper. Also they shield every cable. I started looking for power and speaker wire that comes shielded since I need it for my rack build and found this company. Also I talked to a sales manager on the phone for like an hour and he was very friendly and new there info out the gate. Also 80% of there product is made here in the US.

 

[ryanosaur]

You should never have to spend large sums of money on cables. It is one of the biggest rackets going.

 

[ssmokeyy]

I know paying that kinda money is wrong. At the same time I have not found shielded cables from normal players just the ones that charge crazy money.

 

[ryanosaur]

What cables do you need to have shielded?

Lots of people use racks. I can’t say I’ve heard a single one talking about needing all their cables shielded.

If it is a major concern or actual problem… it is your system so you would know best.
My advice is to first use regular cabling, taking care to route power cables and signal cables away from each other.
If you are getting some sort of interference still, what is it and what component(s) are affected?

There are a few guys here that do installations and could possibly give you more specific advice. Once you share more about the issue you are experiencing, they may chime in to discuss.

Regardless, I’ll warn that conversations about expensive cables usually get pretty short shrift around here. On the other hand, a bunch of us love helping solve problems if you ask the right questions.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wireworld Cable I don't think I've seen Gene mention, he does have some old Kimber Kable speaker cables. I had a conversation with David Salz at Wireworld on some exports to audiophools in Russia, had a disagreement about the documentation he needed to claim back the duty on his imported Chinese wire....I'd never buy anything from Wireworld, tho. Just silly overpriced wire.

 

[highfigh]

I know paying that kinda money is wrong. At the same time I have not found shielded cables from normal players just the ones that charge crazy money.

If you look into 'audio cable manufacturers', you'll find companies that sell cable far sooner than actual manufacturers and there aren't many who make cable. Sure, they'll pay to have some one put their name on the jacket, but ask them who actually makes it and you'll be waiting for a long time unless they're the manufacturer.

For that reason alone, it's best to trust companies that sell to electronic/electrical contractors because we don't want to pay for BS marketing, even if it comes along with half of what we buy from distributors, anyway. We weed through the BS, retail customers have to dig deeper to find the truth.

It's not what marketing departments lead people to believe.

 

[OHMisback]

My question is why do you need shielded cables? I run the absolute bare minimum.

Which cables do you need to be shielded? I have ZERO noise. I use TT, valve equipment (everywhere), RtR, high sensitivity speakers, laptops (PS are noisy), jack hammers, battery chargers, TWO lava lamps, and hula girls that gets goin' pretty good if I turn her on HIGH/HI. No stray noise through the speakers. If I play Tiny Tim the dog howls.

Where is your noise coming from?

 

[ssmokeyy]

So I have a high risk of noise. Im going to put the rack in the front right corner. I have changed the plan 3 times. The walls have been finished and ready for paint. So there is 8 speaker lines, 2 cat 6 lines, 2 high amp power cables to apc h15 units, front 3 lcr speakers wires. All of these wires have to go the same direction next to each other for 4 feet. Im worried the speaker and power cables next to each other will add noise. Does anyone recommend any shielded wire brands?

 

[Swerd]

I started looking for power and speaker wire that comes shielded since I need it for my rack build

So I have a high risk of noise. Im going to put the rack in the front right corner. I have changed the plan 3 times. The walls have been finished and ready for paint. So there is 8 speaker lines, 2 cat 6 lines, 2 high amp power cables to apc h15 units, front 3 lcr speakers wires. All of these wires have to go the same direction next to each other for 4 feet. Im worried the speaker and power cables next to each other will add noise. Does anyone recommend any shielded wire brands?

It sure seems like you've been overthinking this, and at the same time, not thinking the right thoughts. I've never encountered an interference problem with speaker wires. And that's probably true for most people. The one exception is where speaker wires run nearby and parallel to AC power lines.

The amount of signal voltage in speaker wires (between an amplifier and a passive speaker) is high enough to make them unaffected by most sources of electromagnetic interference (EMI) or radio frequency interference (RFI). But AC power wires (120 Volts at 60 Hz alternating current in the USA and Canada) carry enough juice to create EMI that can induce a 60 Hz hum in speaker wires. You might be able to hear that.

The most obvious and easiest solution is to keep speaker wires and AC power lines at least 6" away from each other. EMI picked up by a speaker wire drops by the square of the distance between it and the AC line as you move them further apart. Imagine two wires right next to each other. As you move them further apart, divide the EMI at zero distance by 1/distance². At 2", that becomes EMI × 1/4, at 3" EMI × 1/9, at 4" EMI × 1/16, etc. By the time you get to 6" apart, any EMI should disappear. (See the Inverse Square Law.)

And, keep those wires from running parallel to each other. If you have to cross them, make sure they cross at 90° angles. That minimizes EMI enough to make it inaudible.

In your rack, find a way to keep the AC power lines away from the speaker wires. Do not bundle them together.

If your wife insists that you keep all those wires neatly bundled, out of sight – tell her no. Same goes for yourself, if your sense of compulsive neatness objects to the sight of all those wires. It is far better to have wires offending your eyes than to have a 60 Hz hum offending your ears.

If you absolutely must, search for shielded speaker wire – something like this. But first, make sure you don't bundle those two types of wire together – even if those wires are shielded.

 

[jinjuku]

WW is just another over priced cable vendor.

Check out my shoot out of their Starlight Ethernet cable:

Also debunking some rather dubious claims of theirs:

 

[TLS Guy]

So I have a high risk of noise. Im going to put the rack in the front right corner. I have changed the plan 3 times. The walls have been finished and ready for paint. So there is 8 speaker lines, 2 cat 6 lines, 2 high amp power cables to apc h15 units, front 3 lcr speakers wires. All of these wires have to go the same direction next to each other for 4 feet. Im worried the speaker and power cables next to each other will add noise. Does anyone recommend any shielded wire brands?

Shielded speaker cables are a bad idea and a poor design. The reason is that it increases cable capacitance. Speaker cables can be a source of interference, as it can transmit to the high gain stages via negative feedback. IF this occurs the solution is to run the speaker cables in grounded metal conduit. This will not alter capacitance as the distance between shield and cable is too great and air has a totally different di-electric constant.

 

[jinjuku]

run the speaker cables in grounded metal conduit

Isn't the attenuation something like -18dB for the metal conduit? Crazy good.

 

[TLS Guy]

Isn't the attenuation something like -18dB for the metal conduit? Crazy good.

Yes, if you need it, it is highly effective. However, if you are going to close the walls, then you need to just do it, otherwise you risk having to dismantle the room.

It actually is a good way to go, as it is easy to install the speaker cables, once you have the conduit in place.

In any event you should never run any AV cable in a wall that is not in conduit. Any cable may need to be changed for a variety of reasons.

 

[Teetertotter?]

I used 16ga., 2 Cond., twisted pair, shielded......etc and used in Communication applications. My son is a warehouse manager for a large electrical contractor and he went to one of their dept communications estimators. Anyway, I still have 1/2 a wooden spool of this wire. The wire I have was made in a Chicago mill, w/o having to look up....I think. My runs are 30 feet or less to the side surrounds. The speaker wire runs on top of the basement drop ceiling. The side surrounds hang down from the drop ceiling in the 12 X 10 HT room, that is just for me. Kids are all grown up, married and children. Wife has her own space in the living room. We never watch the same stuff. lol

There is a lot of Snake Oil cabling of all types..........BEWARE..........and save your $$$$

 

[ssmokeyy]

So here a picture before the finish work. So u can see what I mean but I have no other option they have to run the same way to the corner.

 

[panteragstk]

So here a picture before the finish work. So u can see what I mean but I have no other option they have to run the same way to the corner.

I doubt it will be an issue. I have a rack with a ton of cables most of them being speaker wire. I have no issues with noise that isn't related to a specific amp in my system, and the RCA cable plugged into it. Noise is minimal, but I'm annoyed by it. If I remove that RCA, noise is totally gone even with everything turned on.

There is also a huge server in my rack, so if any rack was going to have noise issues, it'd be mine. I don't have noise issues.

 

[ssmokeyy]

I would rather be safe than sorry. I have to buy a power cables and speaker wire why not find shielded wires the first time. Is there any normal priced power cables and wiring that comes shielded. Seems like not until u spend over $200 for 8 feet

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you've been reading too many "audiophile" blogs or something. $200 for 8 feet is simply a ripoff.

 

[ryanosaur]

@ssmokeyy
It's pretty much apparent from the start you had already made your mind up to do this and spend the money.

Frankly, it feels like you are looking for affirmation from us rather than actual advice. That you don't want to agree with the advice is the confirmation of this.

@highfigh and @BMXTRIX both do actual installations. Perhaps they can chime in about the installation aspect specifically and give some additional advice. Or perhaps they will just confirm what's been discussed already(?).

End of the day, man... it's your Ducats. You spend what you want, where and how you want. You aren't here to satisfy us.

If it were me... and I were overly concerned about the problem, my solution would be to separate the power and signal lines...
(As has been suggested)...
Use some cable raceways to take the signal lines past the points of concern (presumably the Power Outlets), and then drop the cables back to floor level.
Or you could use trim molding to hide the cables all the way around the room.
Paint them the color of the wall and call it a day.

*shrugs

Your home, your system, your Ducats.

 

[OHMisback]

I guess I'm lucky.

4 active dual 12" OB servo subs, 8 cables

2, 8" x 6 bass column. Direct coupled columns. 7 cables total

2, LS hybrids (Elixirs) main speakers. I don't use the bass section, just the monitor section. 4 cables

Cable, USB, CAT8, Helix RCAs, XLR weaves. Two valve phono pre amps and a valve preamp for my RtR. 18 cables at least.

I use servers, SACD, DACs, a MX122 and a SLP-05 with a Super Rectifier. 8 cables

My AC cables are weaves the main feed is a pinwheels. It's shielded. It feeds a hydra with AC weaves. 6-8 more AC cables.

4 of those AC cables are powering some hefty 200 wpc valve amps and 12K pro amps.

That's OVER 50 cables. You tell me.. 4 cables are shielded, I think. the rest are SHORT. Does that helps.

My point is shielded cables (CAN) suck the life out of a great sounding system if you aren't careful. NOISE is usually a routing issue . Mine looks like Cable art, I'm not kidding.. It's actually pretty. Most of the time.

Besides what else do I have to do, read the news? I'll stick with cable routing. It's more effective and actually has an outcome I like. LESS NOISE. Better Music!