Go republicans! Let's restrict womens bodies again!

[panteragstk]

Minus the affairs, I'd thought of him as a centrist.

Every president should be a centrist. That would make way too much sense though.

 

[SithZedi]

"The next generation" is a meaningless term when we have no intention of paying it off anyway. We can keep sailing down the sunny horizon while the bills float out from the back of the boat. But seriously, there's some truth to it.

I remember when they used to devote a significant amount of time during the Presidential debates to just discussing the debt. Not anymore and that's both parties fault. They all have their mouths in the feeding trough and the Fed just prints money to cover the spending. They give no shits about the future anything except that their families and friends are at the top of the pyramid. The last decent speech I can recall on the debt came from Obama when he was Senator in 2006. The speech is long but here are some highlights. The debt was 8.6 trillion then. Now it's over 30 trillion not counting unfunded future liabilities.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

“It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past five years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers.”

“Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the federal government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.

“That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America. And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget.”

“This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health-care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

“Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans — a debt tax that Washington doesn’t want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.”

 

[Dude#1279435]

Great speech. Not sure his words matched his presidency LOL. He's right though. The dollar gets weaker, and our influence internationally declines. I'd start cutting, cutting, cutting. But I believe there was once a congressional law that states the federal has to spend so much LOL. Think the best way forward is a vote for the economy. Just about everything else is secondary. It leads to increased living standards, happiness, and more individual choice.

 

[NINaudio]

Nonsense, enabling, woke mentality. Plenty of other options if one can't afford college, Trade schools, Military, Industry to name but a few

I went to private school 24 years ahead of you so I'm well aware of costs, hell gas was 26 cents a gallon when I started driving ! I don't argue for one minute that education costs have skyrocketed but to think the burden should be on 'Joe Taxpayer', no, I disagree.

What's so nonsense, enabling, and woke about wanting to make things better for the next generation? Isn't that the dream of most parents, that their kids will be better off than they were?

I wasn't arguing that there aren't other options. I was arguing that it being a slap in the face to those who have paid their loans is a terrible one.

As far as other options go, not everyone is told that these other options are viable. Many are told they need to get a college degree if they want to have any sort of reasonable job choices/income.

The government has bailed out the finance and auto industries before to the tune of almost $900 million. Why not bail out it's own people?

 

[Dude#1279435]

What's so nonsense, enabling, and woke about wanting to make things better for the next generation? Isn't that the dream of most parents, that their kids will be better off than they were?

I wasn't arguing that there aren't other options. I was arguing that it being a slap in the face to those who have paid their loans is a terrible one.

As far as other options go, not everyone is told that these other options are viable. Many are told they need to get a college degree if they want to have any sort of reasonable job choices/income.

The government has bailed out the finance and auto industries before to the tune of almost $900 million. Why not bail out it's own people?

How are you going to pay for all of it?

 

[Trell]

How are you going to pay for all of it?

Remove the Republican tax cuts under Trump?

As a foreigner owning shares in US companies I was quite happy with the tax cut you handed out to me, though.

 

[panteragstk]

How are you going to pay for all of it?

How'd they pay for it when they did it for any other reason?

 

[Mikado463]

How are you going to pay for all of it?

he has no clue, just continue to kick the can down the road !

 

[Dude#1279435]

How'd they pay for it when they did it for any other reason?

I agree, but that doesn't mean we can continue to do more of it.

 

[Mikado463]

What's so nonsense, enabling, and woke about wanting to make things better for the next generation? Isn't that the dream of most parents, that their kids will be better off than they were?

yep and it's the idiotic and moronic parents that feel they should hand it to their little Johnny. The parents that actually have heads on their shoulders know full well the importance of 'earning ones betterment'

I was arguing that it being a slap in the face to those who have paid their loans is a terrible one.

Again, to that I say nonsense

As far as other options go, not everyone is told that these other options are viable. Many are told they need to get a college degree if they want to have any sort of reasonable job choices/income.

and again, more bad parenting ..........

The government has bailed out the finance and auto industries before to the tune of almost $900 million. Why not bail out it's own people?

apples to oranges......

For the record my industry (railroading) was bailed out in the Penn Central debacle that led to the formation of Conrail and we paid the Gov't back.

 

[NINaudio]

Perhaps this discussion should be moved to it's own thread instead of derailing this one.

 

[highfigh]

This is the single worst argument against it that I can think of. "I struggled/suffered to pay my loans back so everyone else should too." Whatever happened to making things better for future generations? Never mind the astronomical rise in the cost of a college education in the last 20 years. The first time I went to college in '95 it was ~$14k/year to live on campus and take all your classes, buy books, etc. When I went back (the the same school) in 2015 for a second bachelor's it was ~$35k/yr for everything if you were living on campus. A full class load alone was $16k/yr. And this is a state school price. It only gets worse if you go to a non-state school.

The rise in tuition AND the way college was sold as the thing for ALL students to do is criminal. I think many of the colleges and unis should refund the tuition, not the lenders via government.

Private colleges are incredibly expensive, far more than state schools, but we also need to look at how the school funding was slashed by the Federal government, too. That was one of the worst things they have done.

I paid more/quarter in 1975-'79 (full year was three quarters, with Summer being optional) than the local WI university charged/year and now, it's $14,428 for 12-19 credits, and $753 for each additional credit hour. The do have many financial aid programs and scholarships, though- their site shows that reduces the cost by over 40% but they offer ZERO curriculum for students who want to study something that has no possibility of a job or a future.

 

[SithZedi]

Probably right to move this to another thread but a comment about the future.

There used to be a thing in "classic" economics that could be summarized by the economy is a pie theory. I have used this to teach high school kids economics. Thatcher and Reagan used to use it on occasion.

You start with a pie of let's say $100 with flat tax of 10%, that's then $10 of taxes to spend. Taxes are defined by an actual tax as well as regulations, which act like taxes. You do everything you can to grow the pie as large as you can and it becomes 1,000, then you have $100 of tax dollars to spend, and so on. Growing the pie takes putting in the proper incentives to encourage people to grow the pie. If you raise the tax from 10% you slow down the growth of the pie. You raise the taxes high enough you halt the growth of the pie. To take it further, if you put the proper conditions to grow the pie, you attract foreign capital to help you make your pie bigger. Foreigners will want to invest in your pie if their own governments at home do not create the proper conditions to grow their pie. History has proven this time and time over.

The problem today is, classic economics nor history is not taught or just glanced over in schools. Teachers fill the heads of students with Socialist economics and it's offshoots who only benefit the elite in power. They don't teach the kids logic and reason, critical thinking, or how tradeoffs work so the kids can figure this out for themselves. They don't tell the kids if the government chokes off the growth of the pie or confiscates the pie to redistribute it according to the governments(the elites) view of "equity", there ultimately ends up being no pie. Nobody will want to invest in making pie.

Logic and reason. Teach that to the kids for a better future.

 

[highfigh]

This is the single worst argument against it that I can think of. "I struggled/suffered to pay my loans back so everyone else should too." Whatever happened to making things better for future generations? Never mind the astronomical rise in the cost of a college education in the last 20 years. The first time I went to college in '95 it was ~$14k/year to live on campus and take all your classes, buy books, etc. When I went back (the the same school) in 2015 for a second bachelor's it was ~$35k/yr for everything if you were living on campus. A full class load alone was $16k/yr. And this is a state school price. It only gets worse if you go to a non-state school.

When those future generations want to study subjects that have no possible use, why should anyone else support their studies? I have posted several times about someone who was studying Drawing & Painting and when she realized that she wouldn't be able to get a decent job, she was seriously pissed. She was never counciled about future jobs, income, etc. I have to say that her parents should have been involved in that, too- not sure if they tried, but she was a bit rebellious when she was in college. Her area of study is arguably useful, but her realization was something I have to think occurs in others who decided on studies in a fringe area.

IMO, college students should concentrate on something that will provide a good job- if they want to study the fringe stuff, they can do it as electives, on their own time.

 

[Trell]

How'd they pay for it when they did it for any other reason?

With tax cuts, of course.

 

[Danzilla31]

Well this is interesting. And they haven't even made a decision yet. Can't imagine what it will be like if the verdict overturns Roe vs Wade. Buckle up its going to be a bumpy ride

 

[NINaudio]

The whole point of his video is "don't threaten or attack people with an opposing viewpoint", yet the "pro life" camp has been doing just that by bombing, vandalizing, terrorizing, and even killing people who work at abortion centers for a loooong time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

ETA: I'm not saying that vandalizing crisis pregnancy centers is the right thing to do, I'm just saying that he's presenting only one, rather limited, side of this.

 

[Danzilla31]

The whole point of his video is "don't threaten or attack people with an opposing viewpoint", yet the "pro life" camp has been doing just that by bombing, vandalizing, terrorizing, and even killing people who work at abortion centers for a loooong time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

ETA: I'm not saying that vandalizing crisis pregnancy centers is the right thing to do, I'm just saying that he's presenting only one, rather limited, side of this.

Ummmmmmm I think he called out both sides that do it he said whether your left or right if this is how you react to people that view your point differently your idiots. You dont remember that part?

Who in they're right minds would want to vandalize an organization designed to help pregnant women? Shouldn't they want to go after the Supreme Court Justices that.... oh wait they just tried that last week.

 

[Old Onkyo]

If you can attack the capital with intent to…..you can do about anything……

 

[Trell]

The whole point of his video is "don't threaten or attack people with an opposing viewpoint", yet the "pro life" camp has been doing just that by bombing, vandalizing, terrorizing, and even killing people who work at abortion centers for a loooong time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

ETA: I'm not saying that vandalizing crisis pregnancy centers is the right thing to do, I'm just saying that he's presenting only one, rather limited, side of this.

And here is even this:

U.S. lawmakers urge Google to fix abortion searches that steer women to 'fake clinics'

U.S. lawmakers urged Alphabet Inc's leading Google search engine to give accurate results to people seeking abortions rather than sometimes sending them to "crisis pregnancy centers," which steer woman away from the procedures.

www.reuters.com