About to build the most basic high quality 2 channel system from scratch. Video series to follow

[ryanosaur]

Does anyone know where I can find high quality pictures of the piano black BMR Towers?

@internova1 ... if he is still playing here... Otherwise come over to the Philharmonic thread at that other site and he absolutely is available there.

 

[WookieGR]

Marantz should be fine, especially just driving 2 channels. If you were to ever want to Amp them, Hypex and Purifi seem to be very good options. (I'm waiting on my Chassis from Ghent to finish my NC-400 Amps... of course Shanghai locked down 2 days after I placed my order. ) Regardless, I think you are on the right path.

(FWIW, I didn't join the party, but agree that the Ultras wouldn't necessarily have been the best. So good choice! )

When I first posted this subject I knew the community would either say, yeah dude, good choice or completely loose their sh!t and rattle off other options. I was right and it's paying off.

 

[WookieGR]

@internova1 ... if he is still playing here... Otherwise come over to the Philharmonic thread at that other site and he absolutely is available there.

I've been emailing with Dennis back and forth, he said there are photos there,he just can't find them right now and neither can I. There are SO MANY posts regarding his speakers.

It's strange emailing with him because my father's name was Dennis and he just died a few weeks back and we use email one another. Strange how all this is transpiring right now. One Dennis exits and another one enters.

 

[shadyJ]

I feel like there is a typo here: I think you meant to say "lossy storage like MP3"

correct.

 

[shadyJ]

Shady, you are applying analog tests of S/N to lossy audio. They are the wrong tests, as S/N ratio in lossy algorithms is NOT linear.

This is easily tested by listening to random noise of which the best example is audience applause, which becomes increasingly weird as bit rate is reduced. In a 128 Kbs file is sounds nothing like audience applause. There is a lot of random noise in orchestral sound, especially from the percussion section.

So yes a turntable will have a much better and more natural sound than a compressed MP3 file.

The take home is that the wrong parameters have been applied to testing lossy algorithms. The defects of lossy algorithms are serious and bother me far more than the defects of vinyl.

I understand the media differences, but there are some comparisons that can be made. I do agree that 128kpbs is not a great sounding bitrate, but I was describing 320kpbs. There is a big difference in the sound quality between 128 and 320kpbs. Hell, I think even 256kpbs sounds pretty good. That is the point where I start having real trouble telling the difference between CD and MP3. IF you know what to listen for, sure, you can spot the defects, but I would argue that it starts to not matter when you have to listen closely for certain cues to discern the differences. The same is true for vinyl, which, again, I don't think sounds at all bad when presented well.

 

[TLS Guy]

I understand the media differences, but there are some comparisons that can be made. I do agree that 128kpbs is not a great sounding bitrate, but I was describing 320kpbs. There is a big difference in the sound quality between 128 and 320kpbs. Hell, I think even 256kpbs sounds pretty good. That is the point where I start having real trouble telling the difference between CD and MP3. IF you know what to listen for, sure, you can spot the defects, but I would argue that it starts to not matter when you have to listen closely for certain cues to discern the differences. The same is true for vinyl, which, again, I don't think sounds at all bad when presented well.

128 kpbs is low FI. 250 Kbps is where things start to really improve, 320 kbps is really very good, although the codec really matters with AAC being the codec of choice.

I will say, though now that bandwidth is plentiful, audio really should be streamed in a loss less codec.

The BPO have moved up a notch to from their recent 44.1 to Stereo 48 kHz / 96 kHz 24-bit · 1.400 kbit/s / 2.800 kbit/s · FLAC. This includes the archived concerts. The BBC also do the same for classical music broadcasts now. The BPO is UHD 4K with high res. audio. I think they have the highest quality streamed picture of anyone. The sound is superb with full dynamic range. They are now the benchmark in AV streamed quality currently in my view.

You should try it out. They have an enormous archive to browse and enjoy.

Right now though I'm listening to a 57 year old turntable (Garrard 301) with my 52 your old Decca H4E playing though a 57 year old Quad 22 tube pre amp. There is zero audible background noise and you would not know it from a CD playing. The Decca cartridges are still renowned for their great detail and definition. Hi Res audio has actually been around for a while.

 

[WookieGR]

What if I wanted to take my 2 channel system to the next level? Instead of the Marantz AVR, is there perhaps a stand alone digital processor that can handle the DSD and 24/96 FLAC and pass that along to a 100W Tube Amp? I basically want to stick with the AVR since there are fewer connections potentially causing weak points in the system such as analog cables.

Taking the raw source file and sending it to the speakers seems like the highest quality approach vs sending the decoded signal to an amp over analog cables and then back out to the speakers. Am I overthinking this?

Either way, I'm starting to reconsider my entire plan. If I were go with the fewest possible components looking for the highest possible quality is a tube amp and processor an option?

 

[ryanosaur]

Tube amps are not the way to go. They are their own distortion. I guess they look pretty, but you can hang a poster of Bo Derek, Raquel Welch or Sophia Loren if you want pretty.

I did an audition with a guy that used a PC to Schiit Ygdrassil to Pass Lab Amp (F7(?)) to run his Phil3s.

I am going all Hypex for my Bed layer. Eventually a processor rather than AVR, I think.

 

[WookieGR]

What about the Marantz NR1200, It has 100W into 2 channel at 6ohm, the BMR Towers are 6ohm. Plus the NR1200 is way cheaper and has all the high res file support I need.

 

[ryanosaur]

What about the Marantz NR1200, It has 100W into 2 channel at 6ohm, the BMR Towers are 6ohm. Plus the NR1200 is way cheaper and has all the high res file support I need.

That sounds more pragmatic.
If you really wanted to "tune things" to the cleanest performance, choosing your own Amp and DAC would be the way to go, but that is really just masturbatory at that point.
If you wanted to play that game, you would need something with 2.1 processing, preouts (preferably balanced), and a much larger budget.

 

[WookieGR]

Looks like Denon has a unit with only what I need. The Denon DRA-800H. I'm not sure why I didn't look at these stripped down 2 channel amps before. Looks like a winner to me. I'm finding them refurbed around $400. Sure beats the Marantz MODEL 40n for $2500 I was looking at a couple weeks back. I doubt they sound that much different.

 

[WookieGR]

UPDATE.

So far my music room will consist of:

Piano Black Philharmonic Audio BMR Towers (on pre-order list for April delivery)
Denon DRA-800H AV Receiver (just bought one refurbished for $400)

next purchase will be the turntable

 

[shadyJ]

What if I wanted to take my 2 channel system to the next level? Instead of the Marantz AVR, is there perhaps a stand alone digital processor that can handle the DSD and 24/96 FLAC and pass that along to a 100W Tube Amp? I basically want to stick with the AVR since there are fewer connections potentially causing weak points in the system such as analog cables.

Taking the raw source file and sending it to the speakers seems like the highest quality approach vs sending the decoded signal to an amp over analog cables and then back out to the speakers. Am I overthinking this?

Either way, I'm starting to reconsider my entire plan. If I were go with the fewest possible components looking for the highest possible quality is a tube amp and processor an option?

You wouldn't want a 100W tube amp. That would just be a low-fidelity space heater. Stay away from tube amps if you care about fidelity.

Analog cables would not be the weak points in any system, however, you are right to stay away from lots of unnecessary connectivity, mainly for reliability reasons.

If you want the fewest possible components, get some powered speakers and a decent DAC or pre-amp. If you are feeling a bit spendy, I would recommend the RBH PM-8. This is one of the speakers that I wish I could have kept. Add to that a good DAC or preamp, there are a lot of them nowadays that aren't terribly expensive. You can get a good one for less than $500 easy. Add a couple of good subs for deep bass, Hsu, Arendal, Monoprice. Hell, you could use them as speaker stands. That would be a killer system.

 

[Eppie]

Does anyone know where I can find high quality pictures of the piano black BMR Towers?

Not what you asked, I know, but...

There is a photo in natural grey in the forums here. (without drivers)

Some photos here on AVS in white. (and a nice close up on the previous page)

I have seen photos of black towers. Need more time to find them...

EDIT: Found a nice shot here. Hopefully gives you a good idea at least.

 

[WookieGR]

Not what you asked, I know, but...

There is a photo in natural grey in the forums here. (without drivers)

Some photos here on AVS in white. (and a nice close up on the previous page)

I have seen photos of black towers. Need more time to find them...

EDIT: Found a nice shot here. Hopefully gives you a good idea at least.

I've seen many of those. I was looking for studio shots for the video later on. However, I will likely produce some professional photos of the towers myself and as a favor and share them with Dennis to do with as he pleases.

 

[Eppie]

I've seen many of those. I was looking for studio shots for the video later on. However, I will likely produce some professional photos of the towers myself and as a favor, share them with Dennis to do with as he pleases.

Then internova is probably your best bet, like ryanosaur suggested.

 

[panteragstk]

UPDATE.

So far my music room will consist of:

Piano Black Philharmonic Audio BMR Towers (on pre-order list for April delivery)
Denon DRA-800H AV Receiver (just bought one refurbished for $400)

next purchase will be the turntable

That little receiver looks pretty nice. I hadn't seen one before.

Nobody is going to say you didn't make an excellent speaker choice.

What is your source going to be? I may have missed that part, well other than the turntable.

 

[WookieGR]

That little receiver looks pretty nice. I hadn't seen one before.

Nobody is going to say you didn't make an excellent speaker choice.

What is your source going to be? I may have missed that part, well other than the turntable.

I posted all that and an entire video explaining everything post #1.

But basically, Sources are uncompressed CD audio plus high resolution 24/96 through 24/192 flac along with DSD from my media server along with vinyl for when I want to chill and look at cool album art and get up every 15 minutes.

 

[WookieGR]

I changed my mind on the Denon DRA-800H AV Receiver it's going back or will be used elsewhere. I still haven't come up with a satisfactory solution for a way to access all my HD digital files similar to how Denon and Marantz do it.

So far, my 2 channel music room is just a pair of speakers that are still on a boat somewhere. I knew this would be more difficult than building a home theater.

 

[WookieGR]

Update if you've not followed the other forum thread.

The choices for the new system still include the BMR Towers and the primary audio component will likely be the Cambridge Audio Evo 150. With help from another forum member I just discovered that it has the Hypex amp inside and it's rated at 150 Watts per channel.

I think I'm winding down on the equipment decisions. I'm actually very excited about this.