Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I understand this nuke business. One only has to see a film from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But, what do you do with a madman who will and could threaten the use of nukes while taking over other countries. Let him?

Is everyone in the chain of that madman willing to push the button as a first strike?
That’s the big quandary. Does the rest of the world let him continue to invade countries for fear that he will use nukes if other countries intervene? Where does it end? (Just rhetorical questions).
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Here's a Twitter thread explaining how the government change in Ukraine in 2014 was not a "coup" against Yanukovych, although there are still plenty of people insisting that it was.
Especially Putin. Depending on whether one agrees or not with the "coup" and I lean more to the side that Yanuk. should have been replaced, there was a huge issue with the optics.

The West especially the US, was saying it was not manipulating events at the time. Behind the scenes, we certainly were pushing for Yanuk. to be replaced. You had US government officials actively encouraging the protestors. One of our most prominent US Senators and former candidate for president, McCain was there in December.


This article relates to the famous call where Nuland says "f... the EU". Nuland recently resurfaced in that famous exchange in the Senate admitting to Sen. Rubio that their were biolabs in the Ukr.


So we were caught lying because the US was involved in deciding who should be the “pick” for prime minister of a foreign country. The optics were very bad despite the US getting what we wanted..
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks Dan, really was just asking honest question, and was directed at Swerd. Ask him well because Swerd is very knowledgeable with matter like this, Only asked because I really didn't know if it's fake news.
It's best to save something like that for later if it isn't known to be true. With enough searching, it's usually possible to find out for sure. Or, put a disclaimer in the post.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If you really don't intend to provoke people, there are other good ways to ask questions without saying the words "just asking".
But isn't being triggered by that simple pair of words the problem of the ones who see it as 'provocative'? People frequently infer when nothing may have been implied and it's one of the main reasons for threads being closed.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Especially Putin. Depending on whether one agrees or not with the "coup" and I lean more to the side that Yanuk. should have been replaced, there was a huge issue with the optics.

The West especially the US, was saying it was not manipulating events at the time. Behind the scenes, we certainly were pushing for Yanuk. to be replaced. You had US government officials actively encouraging the protestors. One of our most prominent US Senators and former candidate for president, McCain was there in December.


This article relates to the famous call where Nuland says "f... the EU". Nuland recently resurfaced in that famous exchange in the Senate admitting to Sen. Rubio that their were biolabs in the Ukr.


So we were caught lying because the US was involved in deciding who should be the “pick” for prime minister of a foreign country. The optics were very bad despite the US getting what we wanted..
There's a world of difference between US officials encouraging protestors and actively engineering or steering a revolt. It discounts the fact that the Ukrainian people have agency in their own actions and fate.

And, the "biolab" nonsense has been debunked and I don't understand why we seem to have to do it continuously.
Theory About U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine Is Unfounded - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
The State Department said Ms. Nuland was referring to Ukrainian diagnostic and biodefense laboratories during her testimony, which are different from biological weapons facilities. Rather, these biodefense laboratories counter biological threats throughout the country, the department said.

Mr. Rubio made the same clarification in another congressional hearing on Thursday, noting that “there’s a difference between a bioweapons facility and one that’s doing research.”
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It looks like Putin will inadvertently pull off the remarkable dual accomplishments of uniting western Europe against Russia while simultaneously demonstrating that the Russian military is surprisingly inept.
The big problem is that Russia has nukes and it has always been the main deterrent WRT going to war with them.

It's time for the World to force Russia to give up the nukes- bluff or not, Russia needs a new leader and the World needs to make sure they don't go this far again. Having nukes as detente is one thing, but having them and being an aggressor can't be tolerated. Iran and North Korea need to be stopped, too.

 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
There's a world of difference between US officials encouraging protestors and actively engineering or steering a revolt. It discounts the fact that the Ukrainian people have agency in their own actions and fate.

And, the "biolab" nonsense has been debunked and I don't understand why we seem to have to do it continuously.
Theory About U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine Is Unfounded - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Not disagreeing with you on the Ukrainian people deciding for themselves. I was focused on the optics which are meaningful, especially when you are dealing on very sensitive grounds.

On Nuland, everyone seems to be conflating "biolabs" with "bioweapons labs" to score points. I wrote biolabs or biological laboratories, as did the NY Times. She said, "she is concerned that Russian troops will get their hands on the research materials." That means test tubes filled with nasty things we don't want released.


I am not so much focused on why there were there. There seem to be legitimate reasons to be via previous treaties. My concern is why were the contents and research moved or destroyed prior to the invasion? There should have been strict protocols in place to do so given the situation before the invasion.

It's just another think to put on the post war pile of "what have we learned from this" and who is to blame.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
But isn't being triggered by that simple pair of words the problem of the ones who see it as 'provocative'? People frequently infer when nothing may have been implied and it's one of the main reasons for threads being closed.
I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.
point taken, afterall this is the 'Steam Vent' , 'Just sayin' .........
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
The founder of Bellingcat has investigated numerous Russian war crimes, and he's very familiar with the Russian disinformation playbook. The Russian disinformation (e.g. alleged false flags) seems to follow fairly predictable/recognizable patterns.

I'm not saying that all information on the other side is 100% accurate, but that does not absolve Putin.

 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
@Mr._Clark

Thanks for your previous post about Open Source Intelligence (OSINT). It opened my eyes to what is a whole new subject. This morning in the Washington Post, I noticed a good intro to the subject of OSINT. After seeing your post, I made sure to read it all.

The rise of the Twitter spies by Pranshu Verma
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.
You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
The big problem is that Russia has nukes and it has always been the main deterrent WRT going to war with them.

It's time for the World to force Russia to give up the nukes- bluff or not, Russia needs a new leader and the World needs to make sure they don't go this far again. Having nukes as detente is one thing, but having them and being an aggressor can't be tolerated. Iran and North Korea need to be stopped, too.

Well stated! Puttinhead needs to be stopped! He is Pure evil! Bombing hospitals, killing children and women innocent civilians. But he has nuclear weapons more than any one on the planet. Can he be stopped without wiping out the human race?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Not disagreeing with you on the Ukrainian people deciding for themselves. I was focused on the optics which are meaningful, especially when you are dealing on very sensitive grounds.

On Nuland, everyone seems to be conflating "biolabs" with "bioweapons labs" to score points. I wrote biolabs or biological laboratories, as did the NY Times. She said, "she is concerned that Russian troops will get their hands on the research materials." That means test tubes filled with nasty things we don't want released.


I am not so much focused on why there were there. There seem to be legitimate reasons to be via previous treaties. My concern is why were the contents and research moved or destroyed prior to the invasion? There should have been strict protocols in place to do so given the situation before the invasion.

It's just another think to put on the post war pile of "what have we learned from this" and who is to blame.
My understanding of the labs' purpose was researching defensive measures against such weapons. We wouldn't want the Russians to get their hands on the research material, lest they develop countermeasures to the countermeasures.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused by so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.
Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.
He said he didn't know heck I didn't know that because I can't stand watching Tucker

The amount of stuff that can trigger people these days is impossible to keep up with but
he said he understands 3 times since and been more then agreeable about it

So how about we all drop it before it gets blown up again and the thread runs the risk of derailing?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Well stated! Puttinhead needs to be stopped! He is Pure evil! Bombing hospitals, killing children and women innocent civilians. But he has nuclear weapons more than any one on the planet. Can he be stopped without wiping out the human race?
If he loses the support of the higher ups in the Russian military, yes. All we can hope for is that they have cooler heads and maybe, that they have become as tired of the idea that the West is the enemy as we are.
 
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