Improve Your Loudspeakers Sound with this Tweak?

Do IsoAcoustics Isolators Really Work?

  • Yes. It's a great tweak and must have despite their cost.

    Votes: 9 21.4%
  • Not sure. Sounds like snake oil to me.

    Votes: 33 78.6%
  • No. I tried them and heard no difference.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
He does.
We’ve been discussing this. So I have a piece of software that was designed for researchers to use in capturing something audible and reproducing it in binaural fully calibrated to the individual listener. It has full head tracking and allows you to believably recreate what you would have heard in the room. This module was specially designed to allow A/B comparisons. As you can imagine, actual AB comparisons would be near impossible, so this would be the next best thing.

I would maybe like to head up to Genes and do exactly this. Capture a pair of his speakers in his room with and without these. Then apply the(distortion) of each to tracks for rapid AB comparisons. I think that would be the best and most valid way to objectively test sound quality.

I do have an acoustic accelerometer somewhere around here and numerous very good microphones. We could do a full sweet of measurements. I think the problem however is that these measurements may not tell us much. Let’s say we don’t measure anything. It is completely possible that the benefit these have is related to improvements in transient performance. This may happen in a way that is swamped by reflections in a room. Our brain might tease this out, but the mic wont. This is why we don’t typically measure the transient performance of a speaker in a room. It’s not accurate. The room tends to dominate it.

what if we measure and we get a frequency response difference in the steady state amplitude measurement? Which one is right? The flatter looking one? I wouldn’t trust such a measurement either way. Again,too much room for error. I can’t think of a good reason that a decoupler would change the amplitude response much. I can think of lots of reasons a change in position or height would.

what about vibrations? What if I show less vibrations being transferred to the floor? As they do. Is that good? Here is the thing, the vibrational energy created by the speaker is fixed. Coupling or decoupling doesn’t change that. If we reduce the transfer to the ground, where did it go? If all you do is decouple, then the energy stays in the speaker until it eventually dissipated as heat. Isn’t the floor a far better place for that to happen. Think of the mass of the floor, the energy in the speaker will do very little to it as compared to the cabinet. So if that’s the goal, I question why. If those feet are actually damping the vibrations out by converting them to thermal energy, then I think they are made wrong for that. A series of steel plates and elastomers would make more sense. Someone already made that. No idea if it works or is desirable but it’s a better way to dissipate energy.

even the idea that you don’t want the vibrations to transfer to the floor bugs me. Why not? You know that research has shown that we perceive the bass of headphones as being 10dB less than for speakers with the same response because we can’t feel the pressure. The tactile piece is huge. So why not let it transfer to the floor.

min any case, I feel like this is a tough thing to talk facts about. I don’t think we have much science to explain what is better and why. I am not aware of any great research on this. My hunch is that this is dealing with the .0001% of sound perfection if at all. There are so many bigger fish to fry.

On the other hand. Nothing wrong with a little audio jewelry. I know some folks who have very nice and expensive speakers. They need their speakers to sit higher by a few inches. This is a nice option. I am sure it at least does no harm.
So take the case I made of a trampoline like suspended wood floor that sends vibrations through the house. If you can minimize those vibrations from occurring, propagating additional distortions in the form of door/knick-nack/other structural noise... is that not a good thing?
What strikes me most from my experience against that of people on a slab floor is that the slab floor has significantly more mass to accept and dampen the vibration. Plus, it is widely accepted that concrete eats up those bass frequencies, anyway.
I don't propose in my own experience anything beyond the minimizing of some of that conducted energy transference, and in so minimizing that, as I stated above, you could perceive the "tightening" of your bass. I think that is a lazy and horrible way to look at it: there are definitely more precise ways to describe what's happening than resorting to Audioph-oolic lingo.

If asked, I would definitely liken the IsoAcoustic marketing to similar claims from Cable companies. Moreover, you are paying for the part of the product that just looks good, which is fine if it becomes qualified as Audiophile Jewelry With Purpose.

But then, the argument is clearly made through the disagreement generated by Theo’s review that this didn’t live up to the standard we expect from AH.
If isolation and coupling/decoupling are going to become a recommended product or methodology, then it needs to be looked at from outside one manufacturers marketing pitch.
Questions from floor material and home construction to what is happening in a box of sand or with a maple butchers board, how and when to use spikes vs rubber feet or foam pads… and what actually changes, if anything, in the performance of the Speaker all need to be looked at.

Right now though, this reads like magic cable threads extolling the virtues of battery packs or quantum tunneling.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. You think Gene got attacked by one of those body snatcher creatures? :D;) In the end all that really matters, if Gene likes what those insulator, risers do for his setup that's all that matters.
Well, they look PURDY. :D
 
B

beaRA

Audioholic Intern
even the idea that you don’t want the vibrations to transfer to the floor bugs me. Why not? You know that research has shown that we perceive the bass of headphones as being 10dB less than for speakers with the same response because we can’t feel the pressure. The tactile piece is huge. So why not let it transfer to the floor.
I think this is an important point. Even if the A/B test proved there is a perceptible difference, how do we know what is generally preferred? There are people that go out if their way to suspend their seating on platforms above concrete floor to improve the tactile response.

We can probably all agree that rattles can be distracting, but what if you remove all the rattling bits from the room? Is there still any difference? Is the difference worth the tradeoff in tactile feel? Too many questions to justify a $1,000 purchase.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...you are paying for the part of the product that just looks good, which is fine if it becomes qualified as Audiophile Jewelry With Purpose...
Exactly. I love my Kimber Kable speaker wires and Banana plugs because they look good. But they only cost me like $75/pair of cables, not $1,800. :D

Now if I were a billionaire, then $1,800/pair would be like $75/pair. :D
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
You do know this site has to make money right? They have to put out some fluff pieces to keep the site open. I think the average member here can understand that and discern an advertisement peice like this from the real articles.

And for newbies it's why we have these forums to break down the articles so we can seperate the good from the marketing
To be clear Isoacoustics has never given us a dime. I personally consider this audio jewelry. But, Theo is a very enthusiastic audiophile always perceiving the world as glass half full optimism. I admire his perceptions and value his contribution to the site.
 
B

beaRA

Audioholic Intern
To be clear Isoacoustics has never given us a dime. I personally consider this audio jewelry. But, Theo is a very enthusiastic audiophile always perceiving the world as glass half full optimism. I admire his perceptions and value his contribution to the site.
I agree it is unfair to assume a conflict of interest. You do have to admit this doesn't quite meet the Audioholics standard of objective evidence to back up subjective claims.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Agreed.
I argued against what I saw as somewhat egregious phoolery. We all should take a stand and back it up with well reasoned and logical points to support our claim.

I greatly appreciate @Matthew J Poes ‘ response and I do hope we see more research into this. I think there is a very good deal of promise in better understanding the claims made by the pro-isolation camp. Moreover, broadening our knowledge of the physics behind coupling/decoupling and isolation techniques and consolidating that information into an article and perhaps YT vid would be well worthwhile!!!

I hope Team AH can tackle this, please!!!
 
D

dutchholic

Junior Audioholic
To be clear Isoacoustics has never given us a dime. I personally consider this audio jewelry. But, Theo is a very enthusiastic audiophile always perceiving the world as glass half full optimism. I admire his perceptions and value his contribution to the site.
I don't agree with you that it is just audio jewlery. Isoacoustics/proper speaker isolation from the surface that it is standing on; is the only tweak that I really "believe in". Simply because every room/floor has vibrations/resonances, it's close to impossible to deny this, it's measurable that this is the case and in most situations it is also clearly audible. The difference with gaia's is in most cases huge because of that single reason. I don't believe in other tweaks, powercables, other fancy cables, power conditioners, netfilters, ethernet isolation, cable lifters etc.etc. all kind of nonsense snakeoil is on the market. But this is a product that really works.

I also want to add "amirm" from ASR:
"As I was saying, they did the side by side demo:

The difference with stands was remarkable. Both imaging and high frequency content changed.

Was the stand???? Or was it the fact that once the stand was added the tweeter height changed and speaker locations were different. Hard to imagine there was much side to side motion to have it make this much difference."


I think that you guys all know who he is. But he never gave extra attention to Isoacoustics after this. It's something that he missed to investigate further imo. He "assumed" probably just as Gene that it is just audio jewelry, since you two(I have Gene, amirm and Erin in my shortlist of only reviewers that I really trust without a doubt) are always on the facts and don't want to believe things that aren't proven with measurements. And products like this SEEM snakeoil on paper/advertisements/looks etc. This product is kind of difficult to measure, since it differents per room, but I am 100% sure about this product that is really does work in almost all rooms.

In my opinion speaker isolation is an underrated subject on all "scientific audio websites", it's the only tweak that really does work and Isoacoustics is best isolation that I personally found(there are probably others, but not all with the same performance to my knowledge).
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
To be clear Isoacoustics has never given us a dime. I personally consider this audio jewelry. But, Theo is a very enthusiastic audiophile always perceiving the world as glass half full optimism. I admire his perceptions and value his contribution to the site.
Yeah I like his articles no problems here just giving that dude that was posting another way of looking at it. For what's its worth even if they did give you money I don't think your regulars here would see any issue with it. It can't be cheap to run this site. But we know when it comes to your amps speakers recievers and all sorts of gear your measurements are top of the line. Which we appreciate. Not very many sites do what you guys do here.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't agree with you that it is just audio jewlery. Isoacoustics/proper speaker isolation from the surface that it is standing on; is the only tweak that I really "believe in". Simply because every room/floor has vibrations/resonances, it's close to impossible to deny this, it's measurable that this is the case and in most situations it is also clearly audible. The difference with gaia's is in most cases huge because of that single reason. I don't believe in other tweaks, powercables, other fancy cables, power conditioners, netfilters, ethernet isolation, cable lifters etc.etc. all kind of nonsense snakeoil is on the market. But this is a product that really works.

I also want to add "amirm" from ASR:
"As I was saying, they did the side by side demo:

The difference with stands was remarkable. Both imaging and high frequency content changed.

Was the stand???? Or was it the fact that once the stand was added the tweeter height changed and speaker locations were different. Hard to imagine there was much side to side motion to have it make this much difference."


I think that you guys all know who he is. But he never gave extra attention to Isoacoustics after this. It's something that he missed to investigate further imo. He "assumed" probably just as Gene that it is just audio jewelry, since you two(I have Gene, amirm and Erin in my shortlist of only reviewers that I really trust without a doubt) are always on the facts and don't want to believe things that aren't proven with measurements. And products like this SEEM snakeoil on paper/advertisements/looks etc. This product is kind of difficult to measure, since it differents per room, but I am 100% sure about this product that is really does work in almost all rooms.

In my opinion speaker isolation is an underrated subject on all "scientific audio websites", it's the only tweak that really does work and Isoacoustics is best isolation that I personally found(there are probably others, but not all with the same performance to my knowledge).
I don't doubt that in some cases isolation can offer some improvements and I do believe it can be quantified even. I also think it can be achieved for a lot less than a thousand bucks, which is why some of us consider it jewelery. I mean, they even come in a fancy velvet lined jewelry box for the packaging, which I'm sure is rolled into the cost. A ten dollar watch is just as functional as a Rolex, but I'd consider one of them more jewelry than the other.

I have carpet over concrete myself. How much of a difference are these thousand dollar ornaments going to make with my speakers in my room? "I can't believe it!" good? I have my doubts, and even if they do offer some incremental improvement is it really worth $1000? How about almost $2k for the heavier ones?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Ha! This just popped up in my feed. Here's a tweak that offers improvements for A LOT less than the Iso's @Danzilla31! (Zilla has the same speakers)


Just need some good ol' sand! Lol. Tho if your speakers aren't built with the compartmented space for it I s'pose filling them with sand would be a bad idea... I can just picture someone trying this with a regular speaker by sticking a funnel right into the port and fill the entire cabinet with sand... lol.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Ha! This just popped up in my feed. Here's a tweak that offers improvements for A LOT less than the Iso's @Danzilla31! (Zilla has the same speakers)


Just need some good ol' sand! Lol. Tho if your speakers aren't built with the compartmented space for it I s'pose filling them with sand would be a bad idea... I can just picture someone trying this with a regular speaker by sticking a funnel right into the port and fill the entire cabinet with sand... lol.
Lol Those speakers are like a hundred lbs each not counting the sub section so I just never saw the need they are heavy enough as it is in my opinion
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Ha! This just popped up in my feed. Here's a tweak that offers improvements for A LOT less than the Iso's @Danzilla31! (Zilla has the same speakers)


Just need some good ol' sand! Lol. Tho if your speakers aren't built with the compartmented space for it I s'pose filling them with sand would be a bad idea... I can just picture someone trying this with a regular speaker by sticking a funnel right into the port and fill the entire cabinet with sand... lol.
(Sticking a funnel right into the port and fill the entire cabinet with sand) somebody doing that and laughing my a$$ off. I can't stop picturing that in my mind with someone doing this that misunderstood how it's done. Lolo :D
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Lol Those speakers are like a hundred lbs each not counting the sub section so I just never saw the need they are heavy enough as it is in my opinion
I'd do it! I really would try it, and definitely before spending a grand on the Iso's!
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
"My drivers stopped moving!"
For all those people that are truly anti-vibration! Just fill your speakers, AND your room, with sand!
Make certain it's kiln-dried and audiophile grade! :D
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My main speakers 350 lb. That is before you add the five drivers. So I won' be tempted. The center is fixed to the house studs.

I have to call BS, when it is stated that these dubious devices are directional. It is true that the acceleration forces on speakers chassis a large. With drivers I reckon my speaker weight around 400 lb. The point is that the forces are reversing in every cycle. It is really a vibration, which is hopefully adsorbed in the cabinet. The take home is that the cabinet is much heavier than the speaker cones. So it is certainly possible vibrations could be transmitted to a wooden floor. Any carpet though I would have thought would dampen the vibration except in the lowest frequencies. However I think the pressure changes created by the sound waves in the air, which really get the room vibrating, and your internal organs as well. I would bet air pressure changes are dominant, as they are applied over such a large area.
The forces from the motor assembly are similar to two people facing each other, one very large/heavy (speaker cabinet, drivers, crossover, etc) and the other is very lightweight, but relatively strong (the voice coil assembly)- the weight of the heavier person is hundreds of times that of the lighter one but somehow, they have gained some degree of mechanical advantage. The smaller has grabbed the arms or shirt of the larger and is pushing & pulling vigorously. The lightweight person's efforts aren't particularly successful- the heavier one just stands there, but may be moved slightly. Air isn't a great substance for energy transfers between one object and another- this is shown in the speed of sound in various materials- in air, it's about 1125ft/sec, in water it's close to 5000ft/sec and in steel, it's about 17K ft/sec.

This assumes the heavy person's feet are normal in size. The force from a speaker cone's movement may be enough to make the cabinet vibrate but unless the depth of the cabinet isn't extremely small, it's not making it move much, especially if it's on a hard surface. If it's on carpet or a rug with padding, it could make it move, but I think someone needs to put an accelerometer on some speakers to test the real world results from using these and to measure the energy transfer at the speaker cabinet's base.

Even then, the force from the cone pushing the cabinet in one direction is greatly offset by the inertia of the cabinet. That Newton was one smart cookie.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
For all those people that are truly anti-vibration! Just fill your speakers, AND your room, with sand!
Make certain it's kiln-dried and audiophile grade! :D
Go to a Rockler woodworking store and buy some bench cookies.

 
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