Coronavirus

[Swerd]

I guess it's not clear to me how significant the deer "reservoir" issue is. If the virus is already common in the human population and humans are spreading to other humans, does the deer-to-human spread have a big impact? The notion that it could mutate in deer and be transmitted back to humans does concern me, but I'm not sure how much can be done about it? I'm not saying it isn't a problem, I'm just saying I don't have a handle on it.

That's a round about way of saying I didn't comment because I don't have anything particularly intelligent to say about it, as evidenced by the above.

The deer reservoir is significant because we can no longer harbor the (faint) hope that we can eliminate the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Even if 100% of the world's human population were fully immunized, the infected deer population would be large enough to endanger us.

Polio and smallpox are viruses that infect only humans and no other animal. With those viruses, if we vaccinate enough people, we can hope to eliminate those viruses. With smallpox, that may have actually happened. And with polio, that hope is still a possibility. If the white-tailed deer story holds up, SARS-CoV-2 will be around no matter how many people are vaccinated. Deer reservoirs of SARS-CoV-2 can provide a refuge for the virus outside of a largely immune/vaccinated human population and becomes a threat of virus re-emergence into humans.

In the paper, the authors took samples from 283 wild and captive deer in Iowa between 8 April 2020 and 6 January 2021 and ran PCR tests for the RNA from SARS-CoV-2 virus. The sampling period closely followed the course of the pandemic in Iowa. The first human case in Iowa was reported in 8 March 2020, with the peak in the 2nd week of November 2020.

That paper had a graph illustrating how the virus in deer closely follows the trajectory of the human pandemic during that time frame in Iowa. The blue bars (left axis) in the graph show the weekly Covid-19 cases per 100,000 humans, and the red line (right axis) shows the change in virus positive deer. (RPLN is the abbreviation for retropharyngeal lymph node, where they took samples from the deer.) This is much bigger than a few infected house pets or zoo animals.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm a bit surprised no one has commented on my earlier post (#6,627) about white-tailed deer acting as a wild animal reservoir for corona virus.

If this is as widespread as that paper shows, it would explain the curiously rapid spread of the virus, but it would also essentially dash any hopes of eradicating the virus in North America, or the world.

Vaccinations would protect individuals, but it couldn't get us to herd immunity. That herd now includes all humans, all white-tailed deer, and possibly other species as well.

I didn't comment before because, well, what can one say? This is just another kick in the 'nads we have to deal with. The hits keep on coming. If deer can be infected, what other species could be vulnerable? Pests such as as rats and mice? Squirrels? Birds? Farm animals?

It would appear that monitoring for spread amongst other species will become a significant source of employment for wildlife biologists.

 

[RedCharles]

The deer reservoir is significant because we can no longer harbor the (faint) hope that we can eliminate the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

My friends still don't get this. Their understanding is as deep as a government sponsored propaganda slogan. If we all get vaccinated, the pandemic will end!

Some of my family down in California got Covid. The one who was vaccinated, gave it to the rest of the family. He got over it, couldn't wait, wouldn't quarantine, and spread it to more people. One of those people is in the hospital right now. I've tried to explain this to my friends, but the propaganda is too thick. They still believe they are protecting others by getting the vaccine.

I've seen people in their 70s get the vaccine and then pretend that they're invulnerable to virus. But, if you look at the data, the vaccine gives a vaccinated person in their 70s, the same chances as an unvaccinated person in their 50s. And some folks are in such poor health that vaccine or no vaccine, they are toast if they get coronavirus.

I'm still avoiding crowds. I'd rather not eat indoors at a restaurant. Probably won't go to Thanksgiving.

I'm pinning my hopes on the Pfizer pill effectively ending the crisis.

 

[RedCharles]

View attachment 51425

Friend of yours?

Just so you know, you can monitor your anti-body count. I've gotten a few. Cost about 70 bucks.

 

[Swerd]

If deer can be infected, what other species could be vulnerable? Pests such as as rats and mice? Squirrels? Birds? Farm animals?

As soon as was possible, domestic farm animals were tested for the virus. None of them seemed to act as virus reservoirs. Deer came up as a possibility sometime last summer. This paper from the vetenarians at Penn State showed clearly that it's more than possible, it's likely.

It would appear that monitoring for spread amongst other species will become a significant source of employment for wildlife biologists.

Next hunting season, instead of the usual deer rifles, use tranquilizer guns to deliver vaccine to deer.

And for the bow hunters:

If those work, perhaps they can be used on vaccine refusers too.

 

[davidscott]

I'm reading that there is a new variant in China and Russia that is causing these nations to close entire providences. When it gets here we can maybe expect more hospitalizations and deaths. I surely hope not.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Friend of yours?

Just so you know, you can monitor your anti-body count. I've gotten a few. Cost about 70 bucks.

He’s not a friend (I mentioned in the post that I don’t know him).

Anecdotally, one of my golf/beer/pool buddies from back in the day died from COVID a little over a week ago. He was 49. I don’t know if he was vaccinated or if he had risk factors (I hadn’t talked to him about 10 years). Another friend who was vaccinated got COVID about 10 days ago. He’s had a fever and cough but nothing too serious so far. He’s quarantining, which makes sense of course.

 

[Swerd]

I'm pinning my hopes on the Pfizer pill effectively ending the crisis.

Both the Pfizer pill (Paxlovid) and the Merck pill (Molnupiravir) can be effective only if they're given to newly diagnosed Covid-19 patients within 7 days of the onset of symptoms. Any later than that, and they don't seem to work nearly as well. That means people must see a doctor as soon as possible. That small window of opportunity will probably limit the effectiveness of these drugs.

Just so you know, you can monitor your anti-body count. I've gotten a few. Cost about 70 bucks.

Those anti-body detection kits are designed to detect small amounts of anti-bodies in your blood. They're designed as a simple YES or NO test. They were not designed as a way of measuring how much antibodies you may have in your blood. So, don't rely on those kits as a way of monitoring your anti-body count over time, or before & after vaccination/getting Covid-19.

And that's only for the kits that are decent. Unfortunately, there are too many anti-body tests that are less than reliable.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The deer reservoir is significant because we can no longer harbor the (faint) hope that we can eliminate the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Even if 100% of the world's human population were fully immunized, the infected deer population would be large enough to endanger us.

...

How do humans get this close to deer that they would pass it on the the deer who in turn would infect other deers then at sometime pass it back to humans?

I would understand that a deer killed could pass it on to humans when the hunter takes it someplace to process it. But, how did that first deer catch it then pass it on?

 

[RedCharles]

Those anti-body detection kits are designed to detect small amounts of anti-bodies in your blood.

I'm talking about having blood drawn and sent to lab.

Antibody

Purchase COVID-19 antibody testing online through QuestDirect. Or if you have a doctor's order, make an appointment at your nearest Quest location.

www.questdiagnostics.com

 

[davidscott]

I'm still avoiding crowds. I'd rather not eat indoors at a restaurant. Probably won't go to Thanksgiving.


Taking those steps won't make you very popular with the hard core anti vax crowd.
I take those steps also but have had my shots including the booster. Better safe than sorry.

 

[RedCharles]

Probably won't go to Thanksgiving.

I'd be lying if the virus was the only reason.

 

[Swerd]

How do humans get this close to deer that they would pass it on the the deer who in turn would infect other deers then at sometime pass it back to humans?

I would understand that a deer killed could pass it on to humans when the hunter takes it someplace to process it. But, how did that first deer catch it then pass it on?

I don't think anyone knows just how that happens. However, it is clear that human-to-deer transmission and deer-to-deer transmission really do occur. So far, we don't know if deer-to-human happens, or not. It's harder to get good data for that.

 

[davidscott]

I'd be lying if the virus was the only reason.

I hear ya

 

[Swerd]

I'm talking about having blood drawn and sent to lab.

Antibody

Purchase COVID-19 antibody testing online through QuestDirect. Or if you have a doctor's order, make an appointment at your nearest Quest location.

www.questdiagnostics.com

The same caution goes for anti-body detection kits or for tests done by clinical labs like Quest. Quest posts this on it's web page:

Continue to protect yourself​

​

It is not yet known how effective this test is at detecting antibodies in those who have been vaccinated. Additionally, it is also not known how long antibodies remain detectable after infection or vaccination and how long protection, if any, may last. The results of this test should not be interpreted as an indication of degree of immunity or protection.​

Abbot Labs and Ortho-Clinical Diagnostics both say something similar:

In the future, it may be possible to draw blood and test for degree of immunity, but for now, it hasn't been established how accurate or reliable that is.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't think anyone knows just how that happens. However, it is clear that human-to-deer transmission and deer-to-deer transmission really do occur. So far, we don't know if deer-to-human happens, or not. It's harder to get good data for that.

Is there a remote possibility that humans didn't infect the deer first someplace? Could the deer population have all of a sudden created or develop it on their own without human contact?
I suppose it started somehow unless the virus mutated from another virus of some kind and many generations of mutation caught on that can be transmitted to humans in the present form?

 

[Swerd]

Is there a remote possibility that humans didn't infect the deer first someplace? Could the deer population have all of a sudden created or develop it on their own without human contact?

At present, none of that can be ruled out. The authors said this, in the introduction of the paper:

We discovered that one-third [out of 283 samples] of the white-tailed deer sampled had SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid in their RPLN. We then sequenced the SARS-CoV-2 genomes present in all positive samples and found that the genomes represented multiple lineages that corresponded to viral genotypes circulating contemporaneously in humans. In the aggregate, the results [the virus sequences and their geographic distributions] are consistent with a model of multiple independent human-to-deer transmission events and deer-to-deer transmission. Our findings raise the possibility of reverse zoonoses [deer-to-human transmission], especially in exurban areas with high deer density.​

The Introduction section and the section called Broader implications of our findings… of this paper are well written, in plain English, and clearly state the authors' thinking. They discuss the various possibilities of their findings. If you're curious enough, I think they're worth reading, even without a scientific background.

The link I posted previously was only for the abstract and part of page 1 of this paper. Here's the link for the full text:

Multiple spillovers and onward transmission of SARS-Cov-2 in free-living and captive White-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus)

Many animal species are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 and could potentially act as reservoirs, yet transmission in non-human free-living animals has not been documented. White-tailed deer ( Odocoileus virginianus) , the predominant cervid in North America, are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection...

www.biorxiv.org

 

[mtrycrafts]

Scary stuff.

 

[Mr._Clark]

I realize this is just one case, but here's an example of a guy who had COVID last January and refused the vaccine on the basis that he had natural immunity, and got COVID a second time. The 2nd photo is him 70 pounds lighter after 47 days on a ventilator. To his credit, he seems to be making a comeback and he is now pro-vaccine. The third snip below is from his wife. I don't know him, but he seems like a decent guy. He just misjudged his immunity and the virus.

Fortunately he survived, but the virus is obviously not just "the sniffles" for many people.

View attachment 51425

For those who are wondering if the photos are real, I snipped them from this guys Facebook page (it's open to the public).His name is Bill Phillips. His Facebook Page is Bill Phillips Tansformation (just google it). His case was in the news a while back. To me, he seems credible, but you can decide if you think it's a hoax. Here are a few links

>>>Fitness trainer declined vaccine. Stunning photos show what happened to him Colorado fitness coach Bill Phillips is urging others to get the Covid-19 vaccine after ending up in the emergency room and losing 70 pounds fighting for his life from coronavirus. CNN affiliate KUSA reports<<<

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/...-coach-coronavirus-vaccine-affil-pkg-vpx.kusa

>>>LAKEWOOD, Colo. (KUSA) - A former fitness coach from Colorado regrets not getting the COVID-19 vaccine after spending two months in the hospital battling the virus. He now uses a wheelchair to get around and has a long recovery ahead.

Bill Phillips hopes his experience with COVID-19 will convince others to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated. The 56-year-old will leave the hospital Wednesday 70 pounds lighter after the virus almost killed him.

“Having to see Bill go from this person, so strong and full of life and happy, to this person that can barely stand up,” said Maria Phillips, Bill’s wife.

Bill Phillips says he made a mistake when he decided not to get the vaccine. He first caught COVID-19 in January 2020 and thought he was immune. A test found he had antibodies against the virus.<<<

Fitness coach on oxygen, using wheelchair after 2-month COVID-19 battle

He and his wife hope their painful memories will encourage others to get the vaccine.

www.kktv.com

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article253708748.html

 

[shadyJ]

It's not just COVID-19 anymore: a simple flu shot is now becoming partisan! Lol, wow!