Coronavirus

[Swerd]

Eh I get it Im just skeptical of the whole weve had enough of your sh$t so this is what your going to do kindoff approach. Well just have to see if it works though that's the collective mind set it seems ( not just on this thread) but in society in general but moving along then.

I get that you sometimes think out loud. I can do the same. Usually, I edit and re-write my first draft thoughts before I ever hit the Post reply button. But that's just me.

Swerd there was mention a couple of pages ago about new possible variants developing in other countries. Someone said they may be more resistant to the vaccines it hadn't been confirmed yet have you heard anything about this?

Lately, I haven't heard any long-lasting reports of new variants of SARS-CoV-2.

I do keep an eye out for new variants. It can be hard because most of the newspapers are doing that too. Sometimes they are too eager to be the first to report something. So I look for reports coming from several different sources, that stand up to scrutiny for more than one news cycle (roughly a week).

But, I also don't believe it when I read analyses from epidemiologists who predict there are limits to the SARS-CoV-2 virus's ability to mutate. It seems the virus ignores what the experts predict.

Also what is your take on poor underdeveloped countries and there ability to vaccinate? Do we know how that is coming along?

There are a number of Schools of Public Health at universities across the USA and elsewhere. Many of these places are full of people who are good at understanding science and medicine. They're also full of people who understand how different societies & cultures around the world react when they are presented with a large scale vaccination efforts. There are always interesting stories how vaccination seems to conflict with deeply held cultural practices or religious beliefs in various 3rd world countries. We can think of examples from places like Pakistan or Central African nations, where vaccination efforts only succeeded if the westerners persuaded and enlisted the local political and/or religious leaders to support their efforts.

But these cultural experts never anticipated how deep the anti-vaccination beliefs are here in the USA. No one did. I'm guessing here, but just like in 3rd world countries, the only way to succeed in vaccinating 95% of the US population may be to go about it the same way as the Public Health Cultural Anthropologists do in poor undeveloped countries. In that sense, Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, and Pennsyltucky (just to name a few) are no different than Bangladesh.

 

[Danzilla31]

I get that you sometimes think out loud. I can do the same. Usually, I edit and re-write my first draft thoughts before I ever hit the Post reply button. But that's just me.
Lately, I haven't heard any long-lasting reports of new variants of SARS-CoV-2.

I do keep an eye out for new variants. It can be hard because most of the newspapers are doing that too. Sometimes they are too eager to be the first to report something. So I look for reports coming from several different sources, that stand up to scrutiny for more than one news cycle (roughly a week).

But, I also don't believe it when I read analyses from epidemiologists who predict there are limits to the SARS-CoV-2 virus's ability to mutate. It seems the virus is capable of ignoring what the experts predict.
There are a number of Schools of Public Health at universities across the USA and elsewhere. Many of these places are full of people who are good at understanding science and medicine. They're also full of people who understand how different societies & cultures around the world react when they are presented with a large scale vaccination efforts. There are always interesting stories how vaccination seems to conflict with deeply held cultural practices or religious beliefs in various 3rd world countries. We can think of examples from places like Pakistan or Central African nations, where vaccination efforts only succeeded if the westerners persuaded and enlisted the local political and/or religious leaders to support their efforts.

But these cultural experts never anticipated how deep the anti-vaccination beliefs are here in the USA. No one did. I'm guessing here, but just like in 3rd world countries, the only way to succeed in vaccinating 95% of the US population may be to go about it the same way as the Public Health Cultural Anthropologists do in poor undeveloped countries. In that sense, Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, and Pennsyltucky (just to name a few) are no different that Bangladesh.

Honestly I was suprised and not suprised by our reaction in the US. But speculating on why the unvacced feel the way they feel or do what they do would really take up an entire thread of its own

Thanks for trying so hard to keep us up to date on the most current events I'm sure you got enough on your own plate means a lot you taking the time to respond

 

[jinjuku]

Fair enough it was just a suggestion.

I'm at the point that I'm in it for me...

 

[Alex2507]

Really this is all the logical thought you are capable of?

Well I had to drink and drive because I couldn't walk so good after all that drinking.

 

[Mr._Clark]

And for the record I don't think that not getting the vaccine is very smart. I mean look at the number of people who are in the hospital versus who isn't. The amount of unvaccinated is alarming. BUT

Maybe it's the mental health nurse side of me I really don't think shaming or calling people idiots etc etc is really going to go about getting compliance. I don't think in the course of human history that's worked out very well. Sure never works on my units.

I just see a lot more benefit in trying to study and understand why they are not getting vaccinated. And seeing if any solutions can come from there.

I really appreciate Russ's research and time he spent on that article.

The last 2 days I've been perusing this thread looking for good info from TLS Guy and Swerd and it's just page after page of how stupid these people are lately

I mean I feel you guys man I hate having to mask 24 hours literally both at work and at home when my parents come to stay. I hate having to make all these sacrifices because I work in high risk. There's a lot of events and things I can't do and haven't done for almost a year and a half now because my job makes me very high risk. But just getting pissed off or demonizing people is really going to do nothing. If anything it's going to make the pushback from them even worse

Look if you guys are just venting then let me be the first to apologize. Im frustrated too and Im not trying to lecture people on this thread that I see as good people just frustrated at this situation

But maybe we should start a thread about how stupid the unvaccinated are so we can leave this thread open to news from our medical members on this pandemic any new info on variants and treatments which is what this thread has been very valuable for just a humble suggestion.

Mods: feel free to delete this post if you think it's too far off topic. I won't be offended.

To my mind, the main front in the battle against COVID right now is not medical, it is misinformation. We have safe and effective vaccines, but people are choosing to die for what is essentially a non-existent cause. I have the freedom to play Russian roulette, but I choose not to.

Roughly 2,000 Americans die from COVID every single day in this country right now. That's more American deaths than D-Day every single day. The vast majority of these deaths could be prevented. Honestly, I feel like we're losing the war due to the anti-vaxx propaganda.

I'm not sure what the "proper" response is to extremely poor choices by people. Here are a couple of examples:

Many of the people who have died from COVID were actively spreading vaccine misinformation. They died because they believed in lies, and they are taking others with them.

A lot of these "stories" are heartbreaking, but I'm not willing to deny reality and tell myself that these deaths were for a just cause. It's just meaningless carnage.

Quite a few people have posted on Reddit that they got vaccinated after seeing the horror on the Herman Cain award site:

If nothing else, I hope it saves a few lives.

I've become rather pessimistic about changing minds. I'm not sure using kind and gentle words with someone who's told the world to "shove your vaccine up your *ss" is going to make much difference.

I'll admit that a lot of what I post here is venting at the needless suffering and death, and the powerlessness to stop it.

Peace, out.

 

[Swerd]

Mods: feel free to delete this post if you think it's too far off topic. I won't be offended.
… …
I'll admit that a lot of what I post here is venting at the needless suffering and death, and the powerlessness to stop it.

I hear you and join you in your frustration & despair. And I'll add a bit of macabre humor from the comedian Bill Burr.

A number of years ago, in a bit on the long term effects of global warming, Burr said, "three quarters of us just have to go".

I wonder what he has to say about the pandemic.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I hear you and join you in your frustration & despair. And I'll add a bit of macabre humor from the comedian Bill Burr.

A number of years ago, in a bit on the long term effects of global warming, Burr said, "three quarters of us just have to go".

I wonder what he has to say about the pandemic.

Humanity itself needs to go?
We are hell bent to destroy this planet for $$$$ and ourselves as well.
I hate all those futuristic sci-fi moves as it is coming to fruition almost in front of my eyes.

 

[GO-NAD!]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-study-error-anti-vaxxers-1.6188806

This is unfortunate.

 

[highfigh]

Humanity itself needs to go?
We are hell bent to destroy this planet for $$$$ and ourselves as well.
I hate all those futuristic sci-fi moves as it is coming to fruition almost in front of my eyes.

The rest of the animal kingdom has nothing to do with any of the damage to the planet, yet humans constantly talk about how great we are and call the other animals 'dumb', which I assume is because they can't use words to communicate their own thoughts.

It's hard to argue against decreasing population density in some places- extremely high density only leads to problems.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Sadly my cousin texted my ma with "stupid covid" because his mother can't get a bed. She isn't doing well and needs her kidney drained.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Sounds like a bed is opening up and will have the procedure done today. Been in ER this last day.

 

[Mojo Navigator]

I am starting to see the issue of vaccine resistance from a different point of view.

That is a from medico-legal aspect.

If a person is a danger to the community as evidenced by reckless behavior that endangers the lives of innocents. We legally prosecute them but only after a medical professional evaluates their mental competence or incompetence.

If a reckless individual is unable to understand how their behavior is dangerous, they cannot stand trial until mental competence is restored. Inability to understand basic facts/truths indicates that the individual cannot properly defend their reckless behaviors to their attorney or in court.

They are publicly declared Mentally Incompetent.

 

[Mr._Clark]

There's some interesting news on the topic of drugs that could be used to treat people with Covid-19. Most, if not all, of the recent candidates have focused on their ability to inhibit replication of the RNA virus geneome. So far, none of them have worked well enough to get beyond preliminary lab studies.

Today I read about what may be a more successful approach. It was already known that proteolysis (enzymes that cut proteins) plays a crucial role in the life cycle of SARS-CoV-2, as it does in most positive-sense RNA viruses. Inhibitors targeting both viral and cellular protease enzymes have previously shown the ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication in cell culture models. Here the authors at the University of Liverpool (in the UK) and the Institut Pasteur (Paris, France) present the first comprehensive study of proteolysis during SARS-CoV-2 infection, and its implications for antiviral intervention.

Two drugs used to treat cancer, Bafetinib (experimental) and Sorafenib (now approved to treat kidney and liver cancer) inhibited SARS-CoV-2 virus replication, at concentrations that did not result in cytotoxicity (cell death) in a human cell-line model of infection. The methods described in this paper are now being used to look for more drugs with possibly greater anti-viral activity that also can be safely used in patients. Hopefully, at least one of them can be developed to treat people already infected with SARS-CoV-2.

The popular press version is here:

Inhibiting targets of SARS-CoV-2 proteases can block infection, study shows

Researchers at the University of Liverpool have shown how SARS-CoV-2 viral proteases attack the host cell, and how this can be targeted to stop virus replication in cell culture using existing drugs.

phys.org

Here is the link to the Nature paper itself:

Characterising proteolysis during SARS-CoV-2 infection identifies viral cleavage sites and cellular targets with therapeutic potential - Nature Communications

During SARS-CoV-2 replication, viral and cellular proteases play crucial roles and have been shown to be promising anti-viral targets. Here, Meyer et al. apply mass spectrometry to characterize the proteolytic cleavage profile of viral and cellular proteins in vitro.

www.nature.com

I always prefer reading the version as it appears in print instead of the online version:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25796-w.pdf

I'm not sure if this Pfizer drug is similar (my knowledge of protease enzymes is extremely modest), but it looks somewhat interesting.

>>>The mid-to-late-stage study will test Pfizer's drug, PF-07321332, in up to 2,660 healthy adult participants aged 18 and older who live in the same household as an individual with a confirmed symptomatic COVID-19 infection.

In the trial, PF-07321332, designed to block the activity of a key enzyme needed for the coronavirus to multiply, will be administered along with a low dose of ritonavir, an older medication widely used in combination treatments for HIV infection. . . .

Pfizer has also started another study of PF-07321332 in non-hospitalized, symptomatic adult patients.

Merck and partner Ridgeback Biotherapeutics recently launched a late-stage trial of their experimental drug molnupiravir for prevention of the COVID-19 infection. read more

Molnupiravir is also being studied in a late-stage trial in non-hospitalized patients to see if it reduces the risk of hospitalization or death.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-begins-study-covid-19-antiviral-drug-2021-09-27/<<<

Pfizer begins study of oral drug for prevention of COVID-19

Pfizer Inc said on Monday it has started a large study testing its investigational oral antiviral drug for the prevention of COVID-19 infection among those who have been exposed to the virus.

www.reuters.com

<<<Pfizer has dosed the first subject in Phase II/III clinical trial of its experimental oral antiviral drug, PF-07321332, for Covid-19 in non-hospitalised patients who have symptoms but are at low risk of progression to severe disease.

A protease inhibitor, PF-07321332 is meant to hinder the activity of the main protease enzyme that the SARS-CoV-2 virus requires for replication.

When given in combination with a low dose of ritonavir, the antiviral’s metabolism or breakdown is expected to slow down, allowing it to stay longer in the body at higher concentrations.<<<

Pfizer begins dosing in Phase II/III trial of antiviral drug for Covid-19

Pfizer has started dosing in Phase II/III trial of its Covid-19 antiviral drug in non-hospitalised patients at low risk of severe disease.

www.clinicaltrialsarena.com

 

[Swerd]

I'm not sure if this Pfizer drug is similar (my knowledge of protease enzymes is extremely modest), but it looks somewhat interesting.

Pfizer's drug, PF-07321332, is a protease inhibitor that hinders the production of new SARS-CoV-2 virus particles in an infected cell.

In eucaryotic cells (cells with a nucleus), genes are expressed by what is known as the Central Dogma of Molecular Biology. Each gene codes for single protein, or single subunit of a larger protein composed of several subunits. A gene's DNA is first copied (transcribed) into messenger RNA (mRNA), which is subsequently translated into a protein by the cell's ribosomes. One gene produces a single piece of mRNA, which produces a single protein. This Central Dogma is the stuff of all basic high school biology courses.

Many viruses violate this Central Dogma. Their replication strategy differs in that multiple genes are transcribed into a single larger multi-gene mRNA, and this is translated into a large poly-protein. Before any of these genes can actually function, they must be cleaved by viral and/or host cell protease enzymes into individual proteins. This method of genome organization benefits the virus because it condenses genetic material, closely regulates where & when viral genes are expressed, as well as partially protects the virus from the host cell's innate immune response. Studying the proteolytic processing of virus's poly-protein precursors can lead to identifying new drug targets.

This was first described in poliovirus by David Baltimore of MIT in 1971. It earned him a Nobel Prize. Since then, virus poly-proteins have been found in many viruses, including corona viruses. You can read more about the SARS-CoV-2 genome and its expression and processing during the virus life cycle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus#Genome_translation

Here are some short reviews of proteolytic processing in corona, and other viruses:

https://portlandpress.com/biochemj/article/477/8/1479/222860/Expanding-our-understanding-of-the-role

Viral precursor polyproteins: keys of regulation from replication to maturation - PMC

Viral polyproteins are cleaved in a spatially and temporally regulated manner. Access to the cleavage site is highly regulated through various mechanisms. Cleavage can result in structural rearrangement of the termini.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TLS Guy]

Oxford shows that Covid-19 has caused the greatest reduction in life expectancy since WW II.

Again the US has embarrassed itself, by showing the greatest reduction in life span among the developed nations at 2.2 years average loss of life expectancy.

 

[Mikado463]

Oxford shows that Covid-19 has caused the greatest reduction in life expectancy since WW II.

Again the US has embarrassed itself, by showing the greatest reduction in life span among the developed nations at 2.2 years average loss of life expectancy.

and what's also embarrassing is your field(medicine) has the percentage they do, not on board with the vaccine .....

oh well, perhaps another way to thin the herd .......

 

[TLS Guy]

and what's also embarrassing is your field(medicine) has the percentage they do, not on board with the vaccine .....

oh well, perhaps another way to thin the herd .......

96% of physicians are vaccinated according to a recent AMA survey. State Boards of medical examiners are getting aggressive about pulling licenses of physicians spouting false information on vaccines. In Minnesota we have a physician state senator who is now running for governor on the Republican ticket, spouting vaccine nonsense, not withstanding the he himself is vaccinated.

Nurses are a problem for some reason, with 20% unvaccinated. So there will be a lot of firings about to happen as a result of that. The downside is that there will be a nursing shortage. However, you just can't have unvaccinated nursing staff working around vulnerable patients.

As far as I can tell about 9% of pharmacists are unvaccinated.

When you add in non professional staff we have 27% of hospital staff unvaccinated. That is a big problem.

 

[Trell]

96% of physicians are vaccinated according to a recent AMA survey. State Boards of medical examiners are getting aggressive about pulling licenses of physicians spouting false information on vaccines. In Minnesota we have a physician state senator who is now running for governor on the Republican ticket, spouting vaccine nonsense, not withstanding the he himself is vaccinated.

Nurses are a problem for some reason, with 20% unvaccinated. So there will be a lot of firings about to happen as a result of that. The downside is that there will be a nursing shortage. However, you just can't have unvaccinated nursing staff working around vulnerable patients.

As far as I can tell about 9% of pharmacists are unvaccinated.

When you add in non professional staff we have 27% of hospital staff unvaccinated. That is a big problem.

In Sweden as well there are nurses and other "front line health care" staff that still refuses to take a COVID vaccine, but I don't have any current numbers of how many so I'm uncertain how big a problem it is here. That said, taking a vaccine or not is not a political statement in general, so we don't have to deal with that kind or moronity. Probably make it a bit easier to persuade them.

From Swedish government it is said that there is currently no lawful way to require them to take vaccines or sanctioning them. That might change, though.

 

[Swerd]

For many years, most hospitals that I know of, have required all their staff to get annual flu vaccinations – or find other work. And 'all staff' includes everyone who works in the facility, from the hospital administration to the people who refill the vending machines.

I cannot understand why there is resistance to the corona virus vaccination, when there was no resistance for the flu vaccines. This resistance is not based on religion, or the lack of scientific training. That leaves political influence & misinformation as the only explanation.

 

[Mikado463]

How about the Amish ........