John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Samurai
mRNA was in development that long. Clinical trials do not take 10 years, that is what we are speaking of.

You do realize the Covid vaccine only took 40 hours to develop don't you? How do you think that was possible?
I have no idea how they developed the COVID vaccine in 40 hours, but that was not the question you asked. From the JH article, clinical trials for vaccines can indeed last 10 years.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
From Johns Hopkns: "A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer "
You left off part. Here's the actual quote:

>>>A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.<<<

The prior post said "Studies on long term affects take a decade at least."

With regards to the accelerated timeline, the Johns Hopkins website says: "Phase 1 trials can be completed in two to three months, allowing for two doses of a vaccine three to four weeks apart . . . Phase 2 trials can be completed in three to four months, allowing for longer follow-up to better assess safety and immunogenicity. This timeline is shortened when phase 1 and phase 2 trials are combined. . . . Phase 3 trials may take six to nine months to allow early assessment of safety and efficacy, particularly if conducted in areas with a high risk of infection, but with follow-up continuing for two years or more to assess long-term safety and efficacy."

Thus, the total time for phases 1-3 on an accelerated timeline is about 2 and half years. With regards to "studies on long term affects" (sic) this is significantly less than "a decade at least" (emphasis added). Based on the information at the Johns Hopkins website, It's not factually correct to say studies on long term effects take at least a decade.
 
Epsonfan

Epsonfan

Full Audioholic
Six months ago they shouted from the MSM rooftops vaccines are bad don't take the vaccine but now they convinced FDA to approve it & mandate it. Go figure.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I have no idea how they developed the COVID vaccine in 40 hours, but that was not the question you asked. From the JH article, clinical trials for vaccines can indeed last 10 years.
Well I will tell you. This incredible achievement is built very much on the shoulders of genome decoding. This has to be decoded much like any other code.

Then you have to reverse engineer it, so to speak, so you can synthesize the RNA or DNA molecular sequences to direct the cellular ribosomes in the cell to synthesize just the antigens you need to set up the immune response. You have to devise a way to get the code into the cell. The mRNA vaccines use a Nano shield to protect the coded genetic material. The DNA vaccines use are harmless virus to deliver the coded sequences into the cell. This is all very much analogous to decoding the Nazi enigma codes, and then constructing messages to confuse them. In this case not confusion, but skillful imitation.

This research has been going on for years, in which the genome project has contributed. Numerous research labs around the world have played their part.

Normally vaccines have been produced very much by trial an error from attenuated live organisms or killed ones.

For Covid-19 these vaccines were produced from design and NOT trial and error.

As the story was told by the Oxford group in an hour long television program, the group got the genome sequencing of the Covid-19 virus from the top secret biological and chemical warfare unit at Porton Down, early one Saturday morning. Professor Dame Sarah Gilbert immediately contacted Professor Teresa Lambe, professor of vaccinology at the Jenner Institute. She said she was still in bed and in her pajamas! She grabbed her laptop and stayed in bed all weekend until she had constructed the correct sequencing of the DNA coding to direct cells to produce a selection of the spike antigens. So that is where the forty hours comes from.

Then it was over to Dr. Linda Dixon, supervisor of the small production lab at the Jenner Institute to figure out the viral vector and how to produce enough vaccine to start the phase I trials.

At this time the vital help of the Rocky Mountain Primate Lab at Hamilton Montana was enlisted.

Now of course the placebo controlled phase III trails usually take a long time, but NOT in a pandemic. If you have a pandemic then it does not take long for vaccinated subjects and the placebo subjects to meet the virus. With a virus with high community spread it does not take a long time to achieve levels of therapeutic significance.
In fact in the UK as phase three trials started there was a trough between the first and second peaks, so the team had to go to Brazil and South Africa, where cases where rampant.

On the other hand if you have a virus prone to localized epidemics, like Ebola virus say, then progress can be painfully slow. Remember we have not had a pandemic like this for over a hundred years.

Lastly we go back to the fact that these vaccines were right by design. This has not really happened since 1796 when Dr. Edward Jenner made the astute observation that cow pox was an attenuated version of smallpox. This observation led him to develop a vaccine for small pox, and stopped a pandemic over 30 years. At that early date it was understandable that populations would not easily be persuaded to subject themselves to such a novel idea! We have no excuse. Other vaccines have been very much trial and error, with a need for multiple trial series, until there was useful efficacy. So these vaccines have scored success at the end of the first trial series.
It really is an outstanding achievement. It is most galling that so many want to look a "gift horse in the mouth."
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Six months ago they shouted from the MSM rooftops vaccines are bad don't take the vaccine but now they convinced FDA to approve it & mandate it. Go figure.
Yet another stupid snide remark! I can assure you the MSM have no influence over the FDA whatsoever.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Six months ago they shouted from the MSM rooftops vaccines are bad don't take the vaccine but now they convinced FDA to approve it & mandate it. Go figure.
I don't recall any reputable MSM saying "don't take the vaccine".
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
My thoughts exactly. Wasting our time correcting his falsehoods is the goal of our troll. I think it was Steve Bannon who said his strategy was to, 'flood the field with BS'.
I was going to suggest that everyone put him on their ignore list until he realized he had no readers. However that would still leave his nonsense posts polluting this thread for all other readers. I think shadyJ took it one step better.
Thank you!
I apologize for engaging in debate with him. I should have known better.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Anyone who uses the term "MSM" unironically is not someone I can take seriously.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
At this point I've pretty much come to the conclusion that those who don't take the vaccine, and aren't medically exempt, are doing so for entirely selfish reasons.

They don't care about America, or Americans at all. They JUST care about themselves.

They claim it is their 'choice' and should remain so, which I understand, but at some point, you put this nation ahead of your choice. Like we have always done in this nation. It's not actually something most of us want, but I think the vast majority understands that we are beyond individual freedoms on this. The virus doesn't care what anyone chooses. It attacks. It's not making a choice, and we can't be allowed to do so either. Not if we want to protect this nation. Other nations have the same things they will be dealing with. They will need to decide whether or not to allow people to roam freely as infectious carriers, or if they will lock things down and ensure that as many people that can survive, do so.

So, no, I don't think any politician wants to mandate a vaccine. I do think they look at the data, and that they realize that to protect human lives... American lives, they must act in a way which is contrary to normally perceived rights. Don't be confused, it doesn't violate your rights as an American to be told you must do what is best for this nation. We are all required to take specific vaccinations. You can't go to specific places because it isn't safe. If a war gets bad enough, they may take your 18 year old child, ship them overseas, and kill them and it is the right of this nation in the name of protecting this nation. Have no doubts about what your actual rights are in America. The reality that the news articles about people getting hurt/dying from the vaccines are highly questionable, and the reports from hospitals about those who are coming through the doors and laying in their beds unvaccinated is overwhelming, it's just such an easy choice to make.

I think the focus needs to shift on the marketing of this vaccine. It is not patriots who are NOT taking the vaccine. It is patriots who DO take it.

I love this nation, and I am vaccinated.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
At this point I've pretty much come to the conclusion that those who don't take the vaccine, and aren't medically exempt, are doing so for entirely selfish reasons.

They don't care about America, or Americans at all. They JUST care about themselves.

They claim it is their 'choice' and should remain so, which I understand, but at some point, you put this nation ahead of your choice. Like we have always done in this nation. It's not actually something most of us want, but I think the vast majority understands that we are beyond individual freedoms on this. The virus doesn't care what anyone chooses. It attacks. It's not making a choice, and we can't be allowed to do so either. Not if we want to protect this nation. Other nations have the same things they will be dealing with. They will need to decide whether or not to allow people to roam freely as infectious carriers, or if they will lock things down and ensure that as many people that can survive, do so.

So, no, I don't think any politician wants to mandate a vaccine. I do think they look at the data, and that they realize that to protect human lives... American lives, they must act in a way which is contrary to normally perceived rights. Don't be confused, it doesn't violate your rights as an American to be told you must do what is best for this nation. We are all required to take specific vaccinations. You can't go to specific places because it isn't safe. If a war gets bad enough, they may take your 18 year old child, ship them overseas, and kill them and it is the right of this nation in the name of protecting this nation. Have no doubts about what your actual rights are in America. The reality that the news articles about people getting hurt/dying from the vaccines are highly questionable, and the reports from hospitals about those who are coming through the doors and laying in their beds unvaccinated is overwhelming, it's just such an easy choice to make.

I think the focus needs to shift on the marketing of this vaccine. It is not patriots who are NOT taking the vaccine. It is patriots who DO take it.

I love this nation, and I am vaccinated.
Didn't they (CDC, medical professionals) say that some people shouldn't be vaccinated if certain conditions exist?


Politicians don't want to mandate, what? really? All they want is the power to make people do things. Well, and lots of money. And immunity from prosecution.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have been seeing comments about why people shouldn't wear masks, related to breathing CO2. One guy said that any CO2 inhaled is bad, a lot of it can't be good. Yeah, that's the problem. This guy has never worn a dust mask, particle filter mask or full face mask for painting, welding, etc- if he had, he would known that an N95 mask like the ones most people wear doesn't trap much CO2. Must not have taken Biology, either- CO2 makes up about 4% of our breath when we exhale, more if we're engaged in vigorous activities. Mouth breathers are a special case.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Moderators and Administrators of Audioholics,

Today, I read over the posts made by Dal1as on the Coronavirus thread. Not only are they factually wrong, I believe he intentionally posted false information in an effort to inflame argument, enrage people, and discredit the other good information on this thread. There are some in this nation who believe doing this in the name of politics is alright. But this isn’t politics. The COVID-19 pandemic is a large scale outbreak of a never previously seen, highly infectious, and sometimes fatal virus. In our lifetimes, we have never seen such a dangerous event. Over 39 million people have been infected, and over 640,000 have died in the USA. Those are only those whose infections were confirmed as COVID-19. The numbers may actually be much higher.

I ask that these posts by Dal1as be deleted from the Coronavirus thread. Allowing disinformation to remain in this thread is a threat to the public health of the USA. Silencing a deliberate effort to spread dangerous practices in the face of a pandemic, isn’t censorship or a violation of anyone’s freedom to express political opinion.
 
J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
At the risk of being crucified ...

I understand TLS Guy's and Swerd's request to take action against Dal1; I don't agree with his posts either but look at below definition of 'The Steam Vent'.

----------
The Steam Vent

Talk just about anything you'd like here. Or, if you've got a beef about a manufacturer, or you just want to vent some audio steam... come on in. This is the only place you won't get in trouble for flame wars - all other places are off limits. Note: Any comments, criticisms or name calling of Audioholics should be done via PM or directed to circularfile@audioholics.com. Suggestions can be made in the 'Site Suggestions and Feedback' forum.
----------

COVID-19 is indeed a very serious matter so maybe this thread should not belong to the Steam Vent in the first place or maybe 'spreading disinformation' should be added to the definition as a no-no.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
At the risk of being crucified ...

I understand TLS Guy's and Swerd's request to take action against Dal1; I don't agree with his posts either but look at below definition of 'The Steam Vent'.

----------
The Steam Vent

Talk just about anything you'd like here. Or, if you've got a beef about a manufacturer, or you just want to vent some audio steam... come on in. This is the only place you won't get in trouble for flame wars - all other places are off limits. Note: Any comments, criticisms or name calling of Audioholics should be done via PM or directed to circularfile@audioholics.com. Suggestions can be made in the 'Site Suggestions and Feedback' forum.
----------

COVID-19 is indeed a very serious matter so maybe this thread should not belong to the Steam Vent in the first place or maybe 'spreading disinformation' should be added to the definition as a no-no.
While I see both sides of the argument the fact remains(for the most part) this thread has been an ongoing example of constructive dialogue for a year and a half and I agree with Mark, it should be so moderated to keep it that way.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
@Jeepers

I've got no problem with your position on this. Your point is technically correct. That's why I asked that the AH Administrators consider my request. It's their call.

But I do feel strongly that deliberate attempts to drag this Coronavirus thread down into the mud by low-minded trolling must not be allowed. There are similar precedents for this on other internet forums.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
One thing to add about the quickness of the vaccine being available. I saw an explanation that the drug companies took a huge risk by actually producing the vaccine as the trials were in progress and initial data showed great promise. Usually they wait until all is well and approved. They could have lost billions on their gambit that under normal life they would not take. We don't have normal life but a global emergency.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
One thing to add about the quickness of the vaccine being available. I saw an explanation that the drug companies took a huge risk by actually producing the vaccine as the trials were in progress and initial data showed great promise. Usually they wait until all is well and approved. They could have lost billions on their gambit that under normal life they would not take. We don't have normal life but a global emergency.
I don't recall for certain, but I think the government bought the vaccines in advance so there probably was little financial risk to the drug companies.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
I have been seeing comments about why people shouldn't wear masks, related to breathing CO2. One guy said that any CO2 inhaled is bad, a lot of it can't be good. Yeah, that's the problem. This guy has never worn a dust mask, particle filter mask or full face mask for painting, welding, etc- if he had, he would known that an N95 mask like the ones most people wear doesn't trap much CO2. Must not have taken Biology, either- CO2 makes up about 4% of our breath when we exhale, more if we're engaged in vigorous activities. Mouth breathers are a special case.
So according to these folks we shouldn't bother with CPR because we're just blowing CO2 when trying to revive someone.
 
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