a Democrat Texan wants more gun control...........

C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Gents, I'm not so sure about the 'terrible laws' but I have witnessed the terrible enforcement of said laws currently on the books.
Please explain what you mean by that. What laws are being terribly enforced?


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C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Concerning background checks, I have no issues with that. However, registration is another issue.
What do you mean? I’m not gonna repeat myself about how I feel about the background checks but what do you mean by registration?

Speaking to the “Gun show loophole”, there really isn’t one that I am aware of today. I have purchased many guns at shows. Every dealer is required by law to run the same checks as a dealer at a brick and mortar store.
There actually is, in a special sense because at most of your gun shows, you have two different types of people there selling their guns; you have the people that own gun stores who have an FFL that bring some of their merchandise to sell at those shows and whenever they sell those guns, they have to sell them in exactly the same manner as they would inside their own store and the other type of people, are the people who don’t have an FFL or don’t own a store, they just have a lot of their own personal and private guns that they’re looking to sell or trade which whenever they sell a gun, it’s a private gun sale which is no different if a buddy you know is looking to sell a gun and you’re interested in buying it.

Private sales do not require a background check or waiting period that I am aware of, at least not in Va.

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They don’t here in Oklahoma and I’m pretty sure they down in Texas but there’s actually quite a few states that don’t restrict private gun sales but there are a lot to do Which cracks me up because how can they enforce that? If some gang member in Compton wants to sell his fellow thug a gun, how is anybody going to know to make him fill out the ATF 4473 form? The quick answer is NOBODY. Just like with magazine restrictions; how many gang members out there you think that have Berettas, Glocks or whatever with 15 and 20 round magazines? Does the law stop them from doing that? Hell no……lol. They even have automatic weapons too just despite what the law says. And they got illegal drugs that was banned how many years ago? I think I made my point.


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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Please explain what you mean by that. What laws are being terribly enforced?


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in my area for example, straw purchases, criminals back on the streets after rap sheets as longs their arms including weapons charges and the list goes on.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
in my area for example, straw purchases, criminals back on the streets after rap sheets as longs their arms including weapons charges and the list goes on.
I still don’t get exactly what it is you’re trying to tell me.


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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I still don’t get exactly what it is you’re trying to tell me.


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simple........ you have laws on the books and through manipulation of the 'system' too many criminals get too easily put back out on the streets. Reckless DA's (Bill Cosby case) is but another example.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
simple........ you have laws on the books and through manipulation of the 'system' too many criminals get too easily put back out on the streets. Reckless DA's (Bill Cosby case) is but another example.
Well, that’s just our piss poor judicial system at work on that one but as far as gun laws enforced, there’s not too much on that one because most gun laws don’t do any good until after the piece of poop who committed the crime is caught unless if he doesn’t off himself first just to prevent apprehension or incarceration. Then it’s just the trash taking itself out but then people (Obama was good at this) start hollering for more gun control when the current gun control did nothing to stop or prevent the current shooting massacre.


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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Liberals aren't one cohesive group that all falls in line with what the party leadership says. There's a diversity of thought and opinion that doesn't seem to exist as much on the right. Some liberals want to ban all guns, and some are gun enthusiasts. That's good, it facilitates growth and debate when people operate in good faith. I love talking to anti-gun people because I know I can help them better understand my perspective, and also find a dozen gun control and social policies we would strongly agree on.

Just because liberals don't tend to make guns a part of their identity, or shove them in other people's faces, doesn't mean that liberals are unarmed cowards. Ideally my kids won't even know I have any until they are old enough to learn the proper safety that many adult gun owners fail to learn.
I'm not the author of the post you responded to, but @corneileous in post #172 :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What "party leadership" defines "liberals" ? Is that like antifa as far as the ostrich republicans go?
 
diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
@corneileous I'm having an incredibly busy day but wanted to check in on one item. I don't buy the reasoning that because we can't stop any abuse, we shouldn't try. Progress over perfection. No law works 100%, but if we took that approach we wouldn't have laws against speeding, child abuse, sexual assault, etc. So all of my musings are coming from that perspective that I'd rather try and fail than not try at all.

No doubt the point you and others made about enforcement of our current laws now working well is true, too. Younger me thought we just have to write laws and magically we'd all change, but it turns out enforcement is just as important. The limited info we have around gun violence suggests it's not just a law issue (as you're saying), it's also an issue of those societal support structures around the law; mental healthcare, social services, etc.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
@corneileous I'm having an incredibly busy day but wanted to check in on one item. I don't buy the reasoning that because we can't stop any abuse, we shouldn't try. Progress over perfection. No law works 100%, but if we took that approach we wouldn't have laws against speeding, child abuse, sexual assault, etc. So all of my musings are coming from that perspective that I'd rather try and fail than not try at all.

No doubt the point you and others made about enforcement of our current laws now working well is true, too. Younger me thought we just have to write laws and magically we'd all change, but it turns out enforcement is just as important. The limited info we have around gun violence suggests it's not just a law issue (as you're saying), it's also an issue of those societal support structures around the law; mental healthcare, social services, etc.
I’m sorry but I totally despise that term “gun” violence because the gun is not the problem creating the violence, it’s the people. That’s just a term that was just brought on by the true gun-hating liberals who most definitely think the guns are the problem when they’re not. Even though a gun is pretty much the most effective tool, a gun is not the only weapon that people can use to hurt people.

With that out-of-the-way, I get what you’re saying when you say on that mindset that we should just abolish all laws against that, child abuse, sexual abuse, drugs, speeding and all that stuff but here lies the problem; since laws don’t work at all for prevention, what people need to do is just realize that we have a problem and the only way that it’s ever going to get solved is to stop with these restricting laws that really only restrict the people who follow laws in the first place. Don’t make the good people pay to exercise their Second Amendment rights… Don’t limit people to just 10 round magazines when it’s a no-brainer that criminals say piss off to that law anyway.

Instead, make the punishment for these crimes even harsher; stop the bleeding heart liberals and whoever else is responsible for not letting prisons be the most unhappy, scary and unfriendly places in the world like they were a long time ago back when nobody wanted to go to prison. Don’t make it so that people have to jump through hoops just to defend themselves. Stop with this gun free zone bullshit because anybody with half a brain ought to realize that no criminal is going to change his mind about wanting to rob a place just because the owner put up a sign that says no guns.

Look… I know you want a solution… A lot of people want a solution, even myself but these crimes that involve a gun are not gonna stop with heavier enforcement or more laws. Do you want this to stop? Let’s all join together and start making it to where the person who wants to break into your house, rob that liquor store or start shooting at people in a school or at a grocery store a lot more scared to do that when he thinks there’s a lot more people armed that are ready to shoot back.

Nowadays, hardly anybody wants to shoot back or even carry a gun because whether it’s not being able to afford the price of a permission slip to exercise your Second Amendment rights or fear of prosecution if they tried to be a hero or defend themselves. States that may issue you a permit if you can convince them that you have a good enough reason of why you want to carry a gun. Wanting gun owners to have to pay into some insurance fund just because they own a gun for so-called victims to dip into whenever they fall victim of a mass shooting. Hell, just for truck drivers alone, the lack of state to state reciprocity that would allow these truck drivers to carry a gun no matter what state they’re in to defend themselves. And it’s really not only for truck drivers, it’s also for a lot of people who intend to travel as well. Trying to drive up the price and tax the poop out of ammunition. There’s so many more examples like this that I haven’t even thought of but you add it all this up and unfortunately, this is why the liberals “good guy with a gun”term that they like to call bullshit on is actually in a lot of ways quite true because there’s too many restrictions as it is that prevents the good people from carrying.


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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I’m sorry but I totally despise that term “gun” violence because the gun is not the problem creating the violence, it’s the people. That’s just a term that was just brought on by the true gun-hating liberals who most definitely think the guns are the problem when they’re not. Even though a gun is pretty much the most effective tool, a gun is not the only weapon that people can use to hurt people.
...
Every child in school should be carrying guns so they can defend themselves. Only gun-haters thinks otherwise.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Every child in school should be carrying guns so they can defend themselves. Only gun-haters thinks otherwise.
See, that right there is typical liberal mentality. I didn’t say start arming kids. Armed teachers that want to do it with extensive training, yes. Even off duty or retired police officers make great security.

But hey, in a mall, grocery store, church or other big gathering of people, sure; the more law abiding citizens carrying, the better. We all know or should know by now the criminals of all walks are going to be Karian and they know the pipe got the upper hand so we’re not even the score? Oh but wait, we’re too busy worrying about the people who actually follow the laws rather than the people who spend all their life breaking the laws.


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Last edited:
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I didn’t say that. Armed teachers that want to do it with extensive training, yes. Even off duty or retired police officers make great security.


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It was a tongue-in-cheek comment to extrapolate what you wrote ;)

So I guess you're opposed to any requirements to drive a vehicle, like a drivers license? You've probably guessed where I'm going with this :)
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I didn’t say that. Armed teachers that want to do it with extensive training, yes. Even off duty or retired police officers make great security.
This is what I have an issue with. The solution isn't to arm teachers or have armed security (not saying you are arguing for that, just using what you said to bring up a point). I have always had issue with the way a lot of folks in this country try to "solve" problems.

Arming teachers to stop people from shooting up schools isn't the solution to the problem, it's treating a symptom. The problem is that people that shouldn't have guns, have them. That's it.

Everyone likes to say it's a people problem, and it is, not a gun problem, but if those people couldn't get their hands on a gun, they couldn't shoot up a school. Anyone that's first thought is "well, there are other ways to hurt people" is again ignoring the issue is that people have guns that shouldn't have them.

I'd rather my kids not have to do active shooter drills in school. A 6 and 7 year old shouldn't have to tell me how well they did hiding and being quiet.

Anyone who thinks that's an acceptable and necessary thing our children should be doing is out of their mind.

I don't have the solution, but I'm damn tired of people pretending we don't have a massive issue.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment to extrapolate what you wrote ;)

So I guess you're opposed to any requirements to drive a vehicle, like a drivers license? You've probably guessed where I'm going with this :)
You will not get anywhere with these folks. All of us are crazy liberals if we want gun control. All you are going to hear is that it is not the "guns" fault. People do not need AK style rifles for any reason. The 2nd Amendment was not written so some nutball can have an arsenal in his basement. I grew up with guns and hunted as soon as I was allowed. These folks don't remember that up until 25 years ago AR's were banned and for good reason. Now you get this idiots dressing like they are in the military when most of these guys could not have even got in to the Army etc. The answer is always well if more people had guns... Screw that. You don't need a gun the same day and yes there should be real mental health checks before you get one.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I’m sorry but I totally despise that term “gun” violence because the gun is not the problem creating the violence, it’s the people. That’s just a term that was just brought on by the true gun-hating liberals who most definitely think the guns are the problem when they’re not. Even though a gun is pretty much the most effective tool, a gun is not the only weapon that people can use to hurt people.

With that out-of-the-way, I get what you’re saying when you say on that mindset that we should just abolish all laws against that, child abuse, sexual abuse, drugs, speeding and all that stuff but here lies the problem; since laws don’t work at all for prevention, what people need to do is just realize that we have a problem and the only way that it’s ever going to get solved is to stop with these restricting laws that really only restrict the people who follow laws in the first place. Don’t make the good people pay to exercise their Second Amendment rights… Don’t limit people to just 10 round magazines when it’s a no-brainer that criminals say piss off to that law anyway.

Instead, make the punishment for these crimes even harsher; stop the bleeding heart liberals and whoever else is responsible for not letting prisons be the most unhappy, scary and unfriendly places in the world like they were a long time ago back when nobody wanted to go to prison. Don’t make it so that people have to jump through hoops just to defend themselves. Stop with this gun free zone bullshit because anybody with half a brain ought to realize that no criminal is going to change his mind about wanting to rob a place just because the owner put up a sign that says no guns.

Look… I know you want a solution… A lot of people want a solution, even myself but these crimes that involve a gun are not gonna stop with heavier enforcement or more laws. Do you want this to stop? Let’s all join together and start making it to where the person who wants to break into your house, rob that liquor store or start shooting at people in a school or at a grocery store a lot more scared to do that when he thinks there’s a lot more people armed that are ready to shoot back.

Nowadays, hardly anybody wants to shoot back or even carry a gun because whether it’s not being able to afford the price of a permission slip to exercise your Second Amendment rights or fear of prosecution if they tried to be a hero or defend themselves. States that may issue you a permit if you can convince them that you have a good enough reason of why you want to carry a gun. Wanting gun owners to have to pay into some insurance fund just because they own a gun for so-called victims to dip into whenever they fall victim of a mass shooting. Hell, just for truck drivers alone, the lack of state to state reciprocity that would allow these truck drivers to carry a gun no matter what state they’re in to defend themselves. And it’s really not only for truck drivers, it’s also for a lot of people who intend to travel as well. Trying to drive up the price and tax the poop out of ammunition. There’s so many more examples like this that I haven’t even thought of but you add it all this up and unfortunately, this is why the liberals “good guy with a gun”term that they like to call bullshit on is actually in a lot of ways quite true because there’s too many restrictions as it is that prevents the good people from carrying.


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Gun violence- violence, using a gun. Easy to understand- why is this a problem? Of course, the guns don't perform the act, but it isn't a bad description.

The arguments for >10 round mags is sometimes out of paranoia, in the event that an armed gang or mob attacks, or if the government actually stages a full-scale attack on the people, or some fringe group that says they're a sovereign citizen militia, like the group that was arrested after a standoff in MA, recently. For the rest, it's a way to avoid needing to change magazines frequently at the range. The problem is that too often, criminals decide that they want to spray lead without aiming, so they find drum magazines, automatic rifles, etc just because they can get them. A recent shooting in Chicago is a great example of this poop-


The July 4 weekend was insane- 90 shot, 16 dead, last time I saw a report.

Stop the bleeding hearts? Good luck with that- the legal system needs to allow for a good defense, but there are too many being let out with a small bond/bail payment, on their own recognizance, etc. The DAs don't always have much to work with WRT evidence, because of a lack of witnesses or people who don't want to be seen as snitches. Most shootings are unresolved.

People are shooting back, but sometimes, they end up dead, too. One who did was the intended victim of a carjacking by a pinhead who had tried the same only a few minutes about a mile away, but he couldn't get that victim's car to start,at about 7:30AM. The first victim was executed after filling his tank- he was 22, married, described as a great person. The second is an undercover police officer who was just starting his shift. The shooter approached, pulled his gun and they exchanged fire- the officer is still in the hospital, the shooter killed himself. The reason(s) for this haven't been released, but neighbors said the guy was very agitated that morning and punched the fire alarm in his apartment- someone said he had changed his locks the day before.

As far as reciprocity, plenty of states allow carry if they register in some states, others aren't recognized by as many. Looks like Michigan's permit is recognized by more than any other, Vermont's is recognized by the least I saw, but I didn't click on all states. As always, it's up to the carrier to know the map and store their weapon(s) accordingly. There's no excuse for being caught carrying illegally- all someone needs to do is print the map showing reciprocity for their permit.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
...
Arming teachers to stop people from shooting up schools isn't the solution to the problem, it's treating a symptom. The problem is that people that shouldn't have guns, have them. That's it.
...
Why use those tiny hand guns when a cannon is available for rescue during yet another school shooting?
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
This is what I have an issue with. The solution isn't to arm teachers or have armed security (not saying you are arguing for that, just using what you said to bring up a point). I have always had issue with the way a lot of folks in this country try to "solve" problems.

Arming teachers to stop people from shooting up schools isn't the solution to the problem, it's treating a symptom. The problem is that people that shouldn't have guns, have them. That's it.
You’re pretty much exactly right. 9/10ths of the problem is the people who shouldn’t have guns, have guns so now let me ask you; give me one real solution that will keep those guns out of the wrong hands? That’s just it, you can’t and you certainly can’t predict which current law-abiding non-criminals are going to become a criminal and add to the problem.

Everyone likes to say it’s a people problem, and it is, not a gun problem, but if those people couldn’t get their hands on a gun, they couldn’t shoot up a school. Anyone that’s first thought is “well, there are other ways to hurt people" is again ignoring the issue is that people have guns that shouldn't have them.
No, addressing the fact that there is other ways to hurt and kill people is not ignoring the other problem; it’s just stating a simple little fact that guns aren’t the only way for people to commit crimes.

But again, like I said, I welcome anybody to give me a true solution that will most definitely keep a gun out of the wrong person‘s hands and no, I don’t mean by restricting the crap out of everybody else in hopes of achieving that.

I’d rather my kids not have to do active shooter drills in school. A 6 and 7 year old shouldn’t have to tell me how well they did hiding and being quiet.
I don’t have to have kids to feel exactly the same way you do but that’s what the current thing is. If a kid or whoever else comes in that school blasting rounds at everybody, if there ain’t nobody there to take that person out and they’re just simply waiting for the cops to show up, who’s going to take that person out? Nobody, because nobody but the shooter is armed so the next best thing is to find a place and hide so you don’t get shot.…

Anyone who thinks that’s an acceptable and necessary thing our children should be doing is out of their mind.
What, practicing hiding if an active shooter situation comes up?

I don’t have the solution, but I’m damn tired of people pretending we don’t have a massive issue.
I have a pretty good idea to the solution but problem is, the gun hating Democrats whether they’re politicians or citizens, don’t agree with it and to rebut that last part you said, I really don’t think there’s a single person in this country that doesn’t realize we have a massive issue. I just don’t think more gun laws and more gun restrictions is going to change it because if it works, like I said to you along time ago, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City would be some of the safest damn places in the nation.


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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
You’re pretty much exactly right. 9/10ths of the problem is the people who shouldn’t have guns, have guns so now let me ask you; give me one real solution that will keep those guns out of the wrong hands? That’s just it, you can’t and you certainly can’t predict which current law-abiding non-criminals are going to become a criminal and add to the problem.


No, addressing the fact that there is other ways to hurt and kill people is not ignoring the other problem; it’s just stating a simple little fact that guns aren’t the only way for people to commit crimes.

But again, like I said, I welcome anybody to give me a true solution that will most definitely keep a gun out of the wrong person‘s hands and no, I don’t mean by restricting the crap out of everybody else in hopes of achieving that.


I don’t have to have kids to feel exactly the same way you do but that’s what the current thing is. If a kid or whoever else comes in that school blasting rounds at everybody, if there ain’t nobody there to take that person out and they’re just simply waiting for the cops to show up, who’s going to take that person out? Nobody, because nobody but the shooter is armed so the next best thing is to find a place and hide so you don’t get shot.…


What, practicing hiding if an active shooter situation comes up?



I have a pretty good idea to the solution but problem is, the gun hating Democrats whether they’re politicians or citizens, don’t agree with it and to rebut that last part you said, I really don’t think there’s a single person in this country that doesn’t realize we have a massive issue. I just don’t think more gun laws and more gun restrictions is going to change it because if it works, like I said to you along time ago, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City would be some of the safest damn places in the nation.


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I don't have a solution, but people talking about it and doing nothing doesn't seem to be working.

What do you think the solution is?
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
You will not get anywhere with these folks. All of us are crazy liberals if we want gun control. All you are going to hear is that it is not the "guns" fault.
Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that it is?… LOL.

People do not need AK style rifles for any reason.
Why not? The criminals sure have them. So far there ain’t no law or restriction thats successfully kept those guns out of their hands. And not only that if our government decided to turn tyrannical, they sure have them.


The 2nd Amendment was not written so some nutball can have an arsenal in his basement.
And it sure as hell wasn’t written to say we can’t but I sure like how you use the word nutball like every person who does is considered one… LOL.


I grew up with guns and hunted as soon as I was allowed. These folks don’t remember that up until 25 years ago AR’s were banned and for good reason.
Yeah, you’re right, AR’s were banned but did that stop the criminals from using them? I’ll let you answer that question.

Now you get this idiots dressing like they are in the military when most of these guys could not have even got in to the Army etc.
Hang on while I throw you a curveball and I actually agree with everything you said right here. Those people who do that are actually not helping the situation.

The answer is always well if more people had guns... Screw that.
Why? Why does it seem like you have a problem with the good people but haven’t really addressed the bad people at all?
You don’t need a gun the same day and yes there should be real mental health checks before you get one.
I don’t? I may not need one right this second but don’t you read the news? People get burglarized in their homes, carjacked, mugged on the street all the time but you’re saying those people don’t need a gun? Even when the criminal committing the crime is using a gun to do that? Come on man, don’t be ignorant.

And one final thing, how’s that mental health check working on every single bad person in America who has a gun that shouldn’t have one? Oh but wait, I know, you’re only worried about the law abiding Citizen that your laws can control…


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