Subwoofer Change

[PG55]

Hello,

I recently traded in one HSU 15 inch ported subwoofer VTF3 MK5 for two smaller SVS micro 3000's due to space issues. I have it set up in my 5.1 surround sound system. I used a calibration tool called Room EQ Wizard (REW) to get the frequency range for the sub from 20-100Hz as flat as possible. I set the crossover from the 2 main Monitor Audio silver 300's to 80Hz. Now when I play in stereo it seems like I get better and deeper bass when I use the direct mode in my Marantz SR7015. Using the direct mode sets my front speakers to full range vs. crossing over at 80Hz and turns off the subwoofer. Since my Monitor Audios main speakers only go down to about 45Hz I am wondering why when my subwoofer is turned off in stereo mode I get stronger and fuller bass. I always got more bass with the 15 inch ported when it played along with the main speakers.

I am hoping someone has had this experience and can shed some light on why this is happening. I can't believe the 2 SVS micro 3000 subwoofers can't play as deep as my main Monitor audio speakers? In 5.1 movie mode they will shake the sub floor.

 

[Pogre]

Well... you seriously downgraded your subwoofage. Those micros are pretty impressive for what they are, but what they are, are small subs. I'm not really even sure if they're true subs with good extension down to 20 hz. It's unsurprising to me that your bass is lacking now.

Really could use some more info tho. It could be that your subs are experiencing a null that your main speakers aren't. That could possibly be helped with trying different placement of the subs. Bottom line tho... you traded an awesome subwoofer for a pair that barely even qualify as subwoofers...

 

[Pogre]

Let's take a look at SVS' fr chart for the Micro.

That looks to me like a -3dB of about 30 hz or so, which is not sub territory. By the time we hit 20 hz it's down about -20 dB. If you managed to get it flat to 20 hz I'm curious how you did it. Can you post some of your REW sweeps?

 

[PG55]

@Pogre-You may not remember you helped me set up my VTF3-MK5 for music last year and it was sounding amazing so you can imagine how disappointed I was when I couldn't justify the space it took in the family room.

The only upside is I know have two subs vs. the one to help smooth things out. You worked with me on the huge null I had in the MLP but I never could get it out completely. The new sub sweeps show no null anymore in the MLP however you may be correct in that I am losing the lower frequencies.

I will send out the frequencies for both subs shortly and you can break it down for me.

As always thanks for your time and help.

PG55

 

[PG55]

In reference to my two new SVS Micro 3000's performance. Here are some REW sweeps. I ran REW on each SVS sub individually and then together. I also attached a sweep from my previous single HSU VTF3 MK5. I am not skilled enough with REW to know what these sweeps are telling me so I could use some guidance.

 

[Pogre]

In reference to my two new SVS Micro 3000's performance. Here are some REW sweeps. I ran REW on each SVS sub individually and then together. I also attached a sweep from my previous single HSU VTF3 MK5. I am not skilled enough with REW to know what these sweeps are telling me so I could use some guidance.

I knew I remembered you, just a little fuzzy on the details. Sorry 'bout that. I talk about subwoofers on here with a lot of different people, lol.

Even not labeled I can tell which sub is which. Why is the graph so short for the Micros? Might show a little more if you did some full sweeps. What I see with them is what I'd expect based on what they published for specs. They're dropping off starting around 48 hz and below 30 hz you don't have much going on. You might be able to squeeze a little bit more out, but they are what they are. You're just not going to get a lot of deep bass from such a small sub. What does it look like with your speakers and subs together?

 

[snakeeyes]

Maybe SVS has a trade up option

 

[PG55]

Not sure why the graph came out that way. I need to look at the settings this weekend and rerun them. I'll run them with the speakers also and see what it looks like. I am not sure if it is audible but it seems like the peak at 30hz and the null at 40 from the VTF Sub is gone and it is smoother across the frequency range. Am I reading it correctly.

 

[Pogre]

Maybe SVS has a trade up option

They in fact do!

@PG55, how big is your room again? If size really is that big an issue and you have to go sealed you'd be much better off trading up to a pair of SB3000 Pros. They're bigger, but still pretty compact for what you get. I think you'd get better performance from a pair of SB2000 Pros even, but you're coming from a much more capable sub and have already tasted that ported sub deliciousness. You're not gonna find it again with a small sealed sub. A pair of SB3000 Pros might get you pretty close tho.

 

[Pogre]

Not sure why the graph came out that way. I need to look at the settings this weekend and rerun them. I'll run them with the speakers also and see what it looks like. I am not sure if it is audible but it seems like the peak at 30hz and the null at 40 from the VTF Sub is gone and it is smoother across the frequency range. Am I reading it correctly.

It looks like you started and stopped the sweeps early. And yes, it looks like some room modes are smoothed out better now.

 

[PG55]

It looks like you started and stopped the sweeps early. And yes, it looks like some room modes are smoothed out better now.

They in fact do!

@PG55, how big is your room again? If size really is that big an issue and you have to go sealed you'd be much better off trading up to a pair of SB3000 Pros. They're bigger, but still pretty compact for what you get. I think you'd get better performance from a pair of SB2000 Pros even, but you're coming from a much more capable sub and have already tasted that ported sub deliciousness. You're not gonna find it again with a small sealed sub. A pair of SB3000 Pros might get you pretty close tho.

I looked at those but couldn't talk the wife into two of them so I thought I would be better off with two smaller subs to improve the frequency around the MLP which although they don't go as deep as the VTF do smooth it out. I have never been able to find a spot in my 18X18X12 room in which one sub sounds good at the spot in which I sit and moving the furniture is not an option.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Another thing for the graphs, is the vertical limits should be set to 45-105 where we get a 60db window. Also, remove all the smoothing. Both sets are using different smoothing so it’s a little harder to compare notes.
Details are fuzzy…did we talk about the PC versions? Seems like it came up. I’m with pogey on this one in that, even though the FR with two subs “might” be better(i say that because of the differences in the graphs), imo they sorely lack for output. Especially in a room with any kind of volume, and even more so if it’s on concrete. I wouldn’t look at anything less than sb2000 pro for sealed.

 

[Pogre]

I might be misremembering this but I think rule of thumb is you'd need 4 sealed subs to equal the output of 1 ported in the same size/class. It comes right down to immutable fundamental laws of physics.

Is the SB3000 really that much bigger than the Micro? It's basically 11" x 11" vs 15" x 15" right? Does she not like bass with her music and movies..? Talk her into just giving them a try. They have a very generous return policy. Get 'em all set up then blow her balls off with her favorite song or movie. That's how I won my wife over.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I might be misremembering this but I think rule of thumb is you'd need 4 sealed subs to equal the output of 1 ported in the same size/class. It comes right down to immutable fundamental laws of physics.

Is the SB3000 really that much bigger than the Micro? It's basically 11 x 11 vs 15 x 15 right? Does she not like bass with her music and movies..? Talk into just giving them a try. Get 'em all set up then blow her balls off with her favorite song or movie. That's how I won my wife over.

Yeah basically that’s true, by the time they hit 20hz. It gradually lessens as we get closer to about 35ish hertz.

 

[Pogre]

Another thing for the graphs, is the vertical limits should be set to 45-105 where we get a 60db window. Also, remove all the smoothing. Both sets are using different smoothing so it’s a little harder to compare notes.
Details are fuzzy…did we talk about the PC versions? Seems like it came up. I’m with pogey on this one in that, even though the FR with two subs “might” be better(i say that because of the differences in the graphs), imo they sorely lack for output. Especially in a room with any kind of volume, and even more so if it’s on concrete. I wouldn’t look at anything less than sb2000 pro for sealed.

Yup. Minimum a pair of SB2000 Pros, with a nudge toward a pair of 3000 Pros.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok. 18x18x12. Pretty good size for micro subs to handle. Like 3800cuft. One real tough spot is being in a room with equal dimensions. Still, you’re doing the work so I applaud you digging in.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah basically that’s true, by the time they hit 20hz. It gradually lessens as we get closer to about 35ish hertz.

Yay! I remembered something correctly!

Good to see you out n about man!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yup. Minimum a pair of SB2000 Pros, with a nudge toward a pair of 3000 Pros.

I saw that. Totally agree. PCs would be better but I know they’re very polarizing.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yay! I remembered something correctly!

Good to see you out n about man!

Thanks homes. Good to be dropping in! Now I have to finish digging in some irrigation.

 

[PG55]

She could care less about the bass but I'll take a run at her again because I care greatly and I miss it already. That HSU-VTF was an ass kicker for sure! Thanks for the input!