New Lease?

[BoredSysAdmin]

So my Subaru Outback 2018 3.6R Limited (original MSRP is was around 37k) lease - which was about 10k miles/year/42 months and $435 per month with 1st month at signing.
I thought that was a pretty decent deal and I generally like the car for money.
Things it has which I care about a lot: Easy to clean seats (leather in my case), lots of storage space in the boot, AWD - it not supercritical, but does come handly 2-3 weeks in winters, Driver/passenger power seats with the driver have 2 memory - this one is actually extremely helpful as I and my wife have very different height and driving position preference. All the electronic driving/parking assist is helpful for my wife.

Things I have on my car which I could easily live without Sunroof, Built-in Navigation, CD player - does anyone still uses these?

Things I wish they'd done better: 3.6L flat boxer engine isn't particularly powerful nor efficient. They did switch to a new 2.4L 4 pots with turbo which I drove today, but calling it sporty would a MASSIVE lie. Best described it hauls its behind, but nowhere nice as my 2.0t accord. I guess engine aside, they'd have to reduce the car weight to make it move faster/eat less gas, but that probably means using more expensive materials and increase costs.

Speaking of costs. I went to my local Subaru dealer today and basically, the car which replaces my Limited 3.6R is 2021 Limited XT which is after delivery and minimum accessories have MSRP over 40k !!! Holey mother of god. I could get a much bigger Ascent for 2k more with the same Limited trim!! (minus navigation, again which I don't use - CarPlay is great)
Mazda CX-9 is a similar ballpark - has more torque engine (ie: feels peppier) and much more storage than outback.

I do get that Outback is a popular car in the US and thus the reason for a price increase, but it's popular for a reason - it needs to be a great value. at 40k it just isn't.

/rant

 

[cpp]

So my Subaru Outback 2018 3.6R Limited (original MSRP is was around 37k) lease - which was about 10k miles/year/42 months and $435 per month with 1st month at signing.
I thought that was a pretty decent deal and I generally like the car for money.
Things it has which I care about a lot: Easy to clean seats (leather in my case), lots of storage space in the boot, AWD - it not supercritical, but does come handly 2-3 weeks in winters, Driver/passenger power seats with the driver have 2 memory - this one is actually extremely helpful as I and my wife have very different height and driving position preference. All the electronic driving/parking assist is helpful for my wife.

Things I have on my car which I could easily live without Sunroof, Built-in Navigation, CD player - does anyone still uses these?

Things I wish they'd done better: 3.6L flat boxer engine isn't particularly powerful nor efficient. They did switch to a new 2.4L 4 pots with turbo which I drove today, but calling it sporty would a MASSIVE lie. Best described it hauls its behind, but nowhere nice as my 2.0t accord. I guess engine aside, they'd have to reduce the car weight to make it move faster/eat less gas, but that probably means using more expensive materials and increase costs.

Speaking of costs. I went to my local Subaru dealer today and basically, the car which replaces my Limited 3.6R is 2021 Limited XT which is after delivery and minimum accessories have MSRP over 40k !!! Holey mother of god. I could get a much bigger Ascent for 2k more with the same Limited trim!! (minus navigation, again which I don't use - CarPlay is great)
Mazda CX-9 is a similar ballpark - has more torque engine (ie: feels peppier) and much more storage than outback.

I do get that Outback is a popular car in the US and thus the reason for a price increase, but it's popular for a reason - it needs to be a great value. at 40k it just isn't.

/rant

I hate it they dropped the 3.6 R. Anyway its not just Subaru car prices of late that have gone up, its all car makers prices has gone nuts. Even shopping you might save a few bucks but you might drive a ways to get it and to maintain a good service relationship.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I hate it they dropped the 3.6 R. Anyway its not just Subaru car prices of late that have gone up, its all car makers prices has gone nuts. Even shopping you might save a few bucks but you might drive a ways to get it and to maintain a good service relationship.

I won't miss the 3.6R for the reason above, but their replacement isn't that great either. I won't mind the BEV version of Outback, one could dream
I heard dealer prices on some hot cars like Telluride are 5-10k over MSRP - crazy stuff.
But again, to have only a 2k difference between similarly equipped Outback and Ascent - this just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[John Parks]

I've always really liked the design of the Crosstrek and would strongly consider one if not for two reasons: power (or lack thereof, actually) and CVT. If they were to drop in the WRX 2.5 (or close) and a proper transmission, I would get one in a heart beat.

Mazda has been making great strides in the industry and their turbo 2.5 is excellent. I left Mazda after they discontinued the Mazdaspeed line (I had a '13 3) - everything after was rather aenemic. With the advent of thier new engine they've added new life across their entire line. The CX-9 is too large for my needs (and the $42K price tag) but the Carbon Edition is beautiful, same for the CX-5 Carbon. I recently drove the 3 and CX-30 with the turbo/all wheel drive and they were fantastic (not quite "Zoom-Zoom" but Mazda is supposedly now "too mature" for that nonsense). Interior quality alone was far and above what I would expect from that price point.

*Quick aside: the new Bose systems in the 3 and CX-30 are, well, pretty darn good - better than I would have thought, considering the source. Apparently Mazda is very proud of the work they did with Bose and it shows (sounds?).

I am not one to heap accolades on Bose and think a lot of their stuff "blows", but once in a while...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'd take a Mazda CX-5 over any Subaru SUV I've ever driven. In your general price range my second choice would be a Ford Escape Titanium. The CX-5 engine has more torque, but the CX-5 has an old-fashioned 6-speed automatic, while the Escape has an 8-speed, which will work better with a small-displacement turbo-four. The Ford has more features. IMO, the Ford interior is better. Overall, I still think the CX-5 is the best pick.

 

[rnatalli]

How about a Ford Mustang Mach-E? Being electric, it has tons of torque and gets to 60 in a hurry.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I've always really liked the design of the Crosstrek and would strongly consider one if not for two reasons: power (or lack thereof, actually) and CVT. If they were to drop in the WRX 2.5 (or close) and a proper transmission, I would get one in a heart beat.

Mazda has been making great strides in the industry and their turbo 2.5 is excellent. I left Mazda after they discontinued the Mazdaspeed line (I had a '13 3) - everything after was rather aenemic. With the advent of thier new engine they've added new life across their entire line. The CX-9 is too large for my needs (and the $42K price tag) but the Carbon Edition is beautiful, same for the CX-5 Carbon. I recently drove the 3 and CX-30 with the turbo/all wheel drive and they were fantastic (not quite "Zoom-Zoom" but Mazda is supposedly now "too mature" for that nonsense). Interior quality alone was far and above what I would expect from that price point.

*Quick aside: the new Bose systems in the 3 and CX-30 are, well, pretty darn good - better than I would have thought, considering the source. Apparently Mazda is very proud of the work they did with Bose and it shows (sounds?).

I am not one to heap accolades on Bose and think a lot of their stuff "blows", but once in a while...

Bose sound aside, CX-5 is a tad too small, CX-9 is bigger than Outback in luggage, it won't hurt. I'd normally not look at the 42-45k range, sticking to under 37k, but if I can't get outback in trim I like at 37k, might as well look at bigger/better cars.
Carbon Edition is indeed tempting, but missing driver memory position is a major disappointment.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'd take a Mazda CX-5 over any Subaru SUV I've ever driven. In your general price range my second choice would be a Ford Escape Titanium. The CX-5 engine has more torque, but the CX-5 has an old-fashioned 6-speed automatic, while the Escape has an 8-speed, which will work better with a small-displacement turbo-four. The Ford has more features. IMO, the Ford interior is better. Overall, I still think the CX-5 is the best pick.

I drove 2 (2015 and 2018 3 years each) outbacks with 3.6L flat/boxer blocks paired with CVT. While neither was very peppy, not once I felt it due to bad transmission. I won't say that I love the CVT, but it does its job. I also agree that much more torqs on CX-9 (320 of them) will definitely feel car pick-up the speed faster.
Imho American cars are a) overpriced b) terrible lease options due to crappy residual value. I'm not saying much here about their engineering/build quality here, but we all know that as well. I subscribe to https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/ and the times they shared yet another Ford Ecoboost engine disaster due to crappy engineering are countless.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

How about a Ford Mustang Mach-E? Being electric, it has tons of torque and gets to 60 in a hurry.

Haven't driven one yet, It does sound like a decent option (and trust me - electric cars are on my radar) but it's another yet overpriced option. Basically, the only way to look at it is to compare it to Telsa Model Y. To get to the same performance and range trim, including a 7.5k federal tax break, you'd still be paying 2k OVER the price of Telsa Y (no longer eligible for 7.5k fed tax). (rumor has it Biden may bring back that 7.5k tax break for Teslas, then Model Y would be again on my radar)
So Mach-E not cheap. B) They won't lease them, but more like financing with a return option. c) it has a low entry height which could an issue for me (6'1")

I am interested in VW ID.4, but the first batch is already sold out and the next batch due late summer.
My lease end is at 5/18/2021

 

[Midwesthonky]

How about a Ford Mustang Mach-E? Being electric, it has tons of torque and gets to 60 in a hurry.

With 4 doors, it's not a Mustang and never will be. Just call it the Mach-E so Mustang people won't hurt you.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

With 4 doors, it's not a Mustang and never will be. Just call it the Mach-E so Mustang people won't hurt you.

One of my neighbors recently swapped his 5.0L GT for the Roush (not sure which stage). He probably won't forgive me if I call Mach-E a mustang

 

[John Parks]

... but missing driver memory position is a major disappointment.

Just to clarify, it does have it:

I was surprised when I read this as even the lowly CX-30 has seat memory...

 

[panteragstk]

One of my neighbors recently swapped his 5.0L GT for the Roush (not sure which stage). He probably won't forgive me if I call Mach-E a mustang

He'll be fine. Ford's calling it a mustang anyway, you don't have to disagree with them...

 

[Mikado463]

the wife drives a 2018 Subaru Outback, I believe it's got the NA 2.5, good gas mileage IMO, driving to Florida last month we avg over 32 mpg. When it comes to AWD Audi and Subbie are tops IMO. This is her second Subbie, her Forester before provided 9 years of trouble free driving.

IMO what you're paying for a 10k allotment lease is no bargain. Anyways the Mazda '9' is a nice offering as is the Honda Pilot. As for prices going up, well it's all part of the lease game, your best leases are generally with those vehicles with the best residual.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Just to clarify, it does have it:
View attachment 46573
View attachment 46574
I was surprised when I read this as even the lowly CX-30 has seat memory...

My apologies. Got confused. Outback has also Carbon edition which is missing the memory seat.
Mazda CX-9 Carbon is one I was looking at since the confusingly called Touring is missing it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

the wife drives a 2018 Subaru Outback, I believe it's got the NA 2.5, good gas mileage IMO, driving to Florida last month we avg over 32 mpg. When it comes to AWD Audi and Subbie are tops IMO. This is her second Subbie, her Forester before provided 9 years of trouble free driving.

IMO what you're paying for a 10k allotment lease is no bargain. Anyways the Mazda '9' is a nice offering as is the Honda Pilot. As for prices going up, well it's all part of the lease game, your best leases are generally with those vehicles with the best residual.

Agreed on AWD. Subaru's AWD is awesome. Outback would have no problems driving in 1-2ft of fresh snow.
I will be looking at Pilot and Passport, but both interiors are very plain-jane. Might go over that, since my 2018 Accord 2.0t EX-L isn't exactly plush either.

 

[Mikado463]

if you want more pizzaz in the Honda world look @ Acura (RDX or MDX)

 

[Irvrobinson]

I drove 2 (2015 and 2018 3 years each) outbacks with 3.6L flat/boxer blocks paired with CVT. While neither was very peppy, not once I felt it due to bad transmission. I won't say that I love the CVT, but it does its job. I also agree that much more torqs on CX-9 (320 of them) will definitely feel car pick-up the speed faster.
Imho American cars are a) overpriced b) terrible lease options due to crappy residual value. I'm not saying much here about their engineering/build quality here, but we all know that as well. I subscribe to https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/ and the times they shared yet another Ford Ecoboost engine disaster due to crappy engineering are countless.

I haven't owned an American car since 2008 (a 2006 Corvette), but until the pandemic hit I drove a lot of domestic and Asian cars due to rental car companies. That's how I drove Subarus, Mazdas, and Hondas. I don't know what "we all know" about engineering and build quality, but getting your vehicle reliability data from Reddit is a lot like getting investment guidance from Reddit. Neither is a good idea. There's no rigorous data collection or science to it.

Regarding Eco-Boost, Ford has made some cost-cutting decisions with its turbocharged engines that are coming back to bite them. One example, mostly in the small to midsize SUV versions, they neglected to design in a coolant level sensor. Most Americans never check their coolant levels, and with turbo engines, low coolant levels, high engine compartment heat, and numerous plastic parts (every mainline vehicle manufacturer uses plastic parts to save weight) leads to failures that often seem to have nothing to do with coolant levels, but does. Owning a turbocharged car and not checking the oil level and coolant level at least once per month (once a week is a lot better for cars driven 1K miles/month) is just asking for trouble. The Germans are more conscientious about including sensors to detect low levels of everything, but I won't get started about my love-hate relationship with German cars that I've been having for over 20 years now. For the majority of Americans who treat their cars like washing machines, turbocharged vehicles are a really bad idea. IMO.

If you hate domestic cars, then obviously ignore them.

I'm having trouble believing that someone who worries about engineering and build quality would consider a Model 3. Ugh. And whatever you do, don't get into a collision with any Tesla. Not that it's unsafe, but the first hand stories I heard about getting them repaired would keep me from buying one. Apparently collision-related parts are always in very short supply. The collision repair situation must be worse than even I thought, because now Tesla itself is getting into the body shop business. And their fit and finish quality makes any Ford look great.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

@Irvrobinson
Fair enough. The build quality (and materials) of Tesla (from 3rd hand heard, youtube videos) does indeed make domestic cars look much better in comparison.
I don't hate American cars. In fact my "Japanise" Outback's built-in Indiana. It's cheap to do final assembly for bigger cars closer to the market these cars are driven.
My point is that USA domestic brands cars are both expensive to buy and expensive to lease, but there is no logical reason to do so since there is much better value elsewhere.
Here's an example: Chevy 2020 Equinox AWD with 2.0T block. Add few features to make it similar trim and it's already MSRP at 40k. Well, this is just half the picture. The other shoes fall then you look at depreciation charts:

Chevrolet Equinox Depreciation

See the Chevrolet Equinox depreciation curve along with new & used pricing analysis to find which model years have the most value.

caredge.com

Subaru Outback Depreciation

Similar to the Subaru Forester, the Outback's depreciation is slow and steady over time, resulting in relatively less depreciation in the early years, but higher depreciation as the car ages. Perhaps it is Subaru's home turf of New England, and their snowy, salty roads that result in the...

caredge.com

And Equinox has less cargo space than Outback.

Maybe only muscle cars are an exception to the rule. One could get lots of power with a domestic muscle car for relatively little money. Unfortunately, I'm not in the market for sports/muscle cars - my Accord 2.0 is fast enough to have a bit of fun at 5.5seconds 0-60.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In other news, I was taking my Accord for regular service and asked about and test drove Honda Passport EX-L AWD. Over 39k in MSRP.
This trim offers all the features I want. It is actually a bit faster than the Outback and much roomier too.
Guess what lease terms I was offered today?? 1st month down 10k miles/per year - 3 years lease.