Floor standing Speakers and "Building them in" vs. In wall?

[Sligg]

Hey all. Bit of a beginner here with a new setup and want to get it right. I am a klipsch fan and have been looking at the Klipsch model RP-8000F. To my understanding you want floor standing at least a foot from any wall... these speakers have the port for air movement in the back. I have heard them before and like the sound but am also wanting to conceal them for bonus points and acceptance with the wife. If they are "built-in" to cabinetry type of setup what is that going to do to the sound? I was thinking of framing a wall/false wall out away from the real wall to "insert" these speakers to conceal them with a screen or something... The look of being in-wall when they are not. The area behind the "false wall" would be open space and sound resonating from the port etc. could be weird. Only other option is an in-wall really as this is going into a basement room that is not dedicated to being a theater. 20' x 35'

Thoughts ?

 

[NINaudio]

You should never enclose floor standing or bookshelf speakers in a cubby or place them in a wall. It has some deleterious effects on the sound. (bass bloat, wonky treble and mid response due to the apparent increased baffle size, etc etc). If you must hide them, putting them in open space behind a screen is fine or go with in walls.

 

[ryanosaur]

You cannot do this and expect the speaker to behave as it is designed.
You could put them behind an acoustically transparent screen, but maintaining a Standoff Distance from the Front and Side Walls is mandatory.
People that do not respect the basic setup parameters are often here complaining about their Sound Quality, and why things aren't working as they expect.
Our basic advice is always to fall back on these simple criteria. The people that listen are rewarded. The people that don't... well... they are stuck with poor performance.

 

[Pogre]

Not a good plan. You already acknowledged most floorstanding speakers need space to breathe. Stuffing them into a wall will not yield good results. You'll want to either use them as recommended or go with in wall speakers. I don't know all of the science behind it but you're basically completely changing the way they disperse sound by altering the size of the baffle. Plus a good portion of your bass comes through the port.

Another thing to consider, the 8000F is actually a pretty good speaker. In walls that come close, or match their performance won't be cheap.

 

[Pogre]

Wow. 3 posts almost simultaneously. I think op now knows this isn't a great idea, lol.

 

[ryanosaur]

Wow. 3 posts almost simultaneously. I think op now knows this isn't a great idea, lol.

Fighting... the... urge... to ... rainbow...

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey all. Bit of a beginner here with a new setup and want to get it right. I am a klipsch fan and have been looking at the Klipsch model RP-8000F. To my understanding you want floor standing at least a foot from any wall... these speakers have the port for air movement in the back. I have heard them before and like the sound but am also wanting to conceal them for bonus points and acceptance with the wife. If they are "built-in" to cabinetry type of setup what is that going to do to the sound? I was thinking of framing a wall/false wall out away from the real wall to "insert" these speakers to conceal them with a screen or something... The look of being in-wall when they are not. The area behind the "false wall" would be open space and sound resonating from the port etc. could be weird. Only other option is an in-wall really as this is going into a basement room that is not dedicated to being a theater. 20' x 35'

Thoughts ?

You can't do that. We get asked this often.

The issue is the transition form half to full space radiator, which takes place at a frequency dependent on the width of the front baffle. This effect requires compensation, called Baffle Step Compensation, known as BSC. This compensation requires a 6db bass boost below the transition frequency. An in wall speaker requires no BSC. However it gets more complicated than that, as the flat wall also causes reflection resulting in bass reinforcement, that has to be corrected for.
In addition you would not rear port an in wall speaker.

As far as WAF is concerned though you plan is a good one. That is what I did in our great room system. I designed and built an in wall system behind a false wall by the fire place. It was quite a project though.

I think this is the type of concept you have in mind.

There is nothing really quite like that on the market. If you want a commercial in wall system you should look at B & W. There are quite a lot of offerings out there, but manufacturers in the main are afraid to tell how lousy there systems really are. You certainly want to avoid unenclosed systems. In wall is not an acoustically friendly location, but you can make it work. I'm very pleased with my system and my wife is over the moon with it.

 

[Sligg]

You can't do that. We get asked this often.

The issue is the transition form half to full space radiator, which takes place at a frequency dependent on the width of the front baffle. This effect requires compensation, called Baffle Step Compensation, known as BSC. This compensation requires a 6db bass boost below the transition frequency. An in wall speaker requires no BSC. However it gets more complicated than that, as the flat wall also causes reflection resulting in bass reinforcement, that has to be corrected for.
In addition you would not rear port an in wall speaker.

As far as WAF is concerned though you plan is a good one. That is what I did in our great room system. I designed and built an in wall system behind a false wall by the fire place. It was quite a project though.

I think this is the type of concept you have in mind.

There is nothing really quite like that on the market. If you want a commercial in wall system you should look at B & W. There are quite a lot of offerings out there, but manufacturers in the main are afraid to tell how lousy there systems really are. You certainly want to avoid unenclosed systems. In wall is not an acoustically friendly location, but you can make it work. I'm very pleased with my system and my wife is over the moon with it.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for talking me off a cliff . The setup you built yourself in the pictures is pretty much what I am trying to do but with out building everything myself.

Sooooo looks like in wall is what I should be shooting for to maintain the aesthetics. With that... do I put time into backer boxes to try and enclose them or let them be free ??

 

[TLS Guy]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for talking me off a cliff . The setup you built yourself in the pictures is pretty much what I am trying to do but with out building everything myself.

Sooooo looks like in wall is what I should be shooting for to maintain the aesthetics. With that... do I put time into backer boxes to try and enclose them or let them be free ??

You need back boxes. The problem is that the manufacturers do not provide the specs to design the back boxes. That is why I suggested B & W as they have back boxes and provide believable specs.

 

[Sligg]

You need back boxes. The problem is that the manufacturers do not provide the specs to design the back boxes. That is why I suggested B & W as they have back boxes and provide believable specs.

I have been looking all night and all day through these... Bowers looks good but on the expensive side but... having a hard time finding any reviews on them in relation to some of the other brands. the 7.4 s2 which is more in my range @$799 does not have the box with it :/ $1000 essentially for a built in backer box that you get with the 7.3 s2 @$1800 or settle for a 2 way with the 7.5 s2 speakers @$799 with the chamber/port... hard to swing... and tough choice.

would use the cheaper klipsch speakers as surrounds.

 

[Pogre]

I have been looking all night and all day through these... Bowers looks good but on the expensive side but... having a hard time finding any reviews on them in relation to some of the other brands. the 7.4 s2 which is more in my range does not have the box with it :/ $1000 essentially for a built in backer box... hard to swing...

You're fighting an uphill battle with physics. It's a lot easier to make a proper speaker in a box with good design. The more you let aesthetics get in the way, the more it's gonna cost you in performance. Both figuratively and literally.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have been looking all night and all day through these... Bowers looks good but on the expensive side but... having a hard time finding any reviews on them in relation to some of the other brands. the 7.4 s2 which is more in my range @$799 does not have the box with it :/ $1000 essentially for a built in backer box that you get with the 7.3 s2 @$1800 or settle for a 2 way with the 7.5 s2 speakers @$799 with the chamber/port... hard to swing... and tough choice.

would use the cheaper klipsch speakers as surrounds.

It would be really helpful to know what type of room this system is going in. If this is an open plan living room, you need at most three speakers and a sub or two. Most of the open living room spaces are just not suitable for surround sound. Photographs would be helpful. I can not emphasize enough that two good speakers easily ace out 7 or more lousy ones. The space I showed you, for instance would not take a surround audio system well at all. I have a dedicated room for that, which is what home theater really requires, if you want more than front speakers. Having said that, my in wall system does still provide a very good movie experience, and is a very good music and TV system, with excellent voice clarity. The latter is supremely important in any system that will be used for TV and movies.

I would not rely on subjective reviews to in anyway guide your choice of any speakers, especially consumer reviews. Few consumers have have the first clue as to whether a system is any good or not.

 

[Sligg]

Kept saying files were too big... but figured it out... k this is the front view. For all intents and purposes on the front right you can see that the wall shoots out about 16in or so not sitting flush with the rest

 

[Sligg]

Closer view

 

[Sligg]

Right side of room with stair pic.. was planning one SR speaker in the wall there in wall but sharing with stairs.. another potentially but sound problem...

 

[Sligg]

Left side. With LS speaker to be placed to the left of the window

 

[Sligg]

Mock up drawings in wall has wall to the back. But since I have seen your build was thinking of brining the wall forward like yours and the other bookshelf and floor standing mock ups

 

[Sligg]

On the mock ups kind of a top view and a front view. The bookshelf/cabinet on the right is going to be more shallow... the one on the left will be pretty deep and will contain the sub. also the room is 20 x 35 or so behind is open.

 

[TLS Guy]

On the mock ups kind of a top view and a front view. The bookshelf/cabinet on the right is going to be more shallow... the one on the left will be pretty deep and will contain the sub. also the room is 20 x 35 or so behind is open.

The pictures are helpful, but I can't make any sense of those drawings.

I would ask, what is the main function and primary purpose of that room, which looks to be a basement room? Is there going to be a door at the top of that stairway?

Now the walls are open you need to place conduit for all your system wiring. You never ever, place any home theater wiring, that is not in conduit, so it can easily be changed by pull through. The is a golden rule as far as I'm concerned.

While the room is open like that you really have a lot of options without confining yourself to in walls.

I will show you some pictures of my HT room and its construction tomorrow.

 

[DigitalDawn]

On the mock ups kind of a top view and a front view. The bookshelf/cabinet on the right is going to be more shallow... the one on the left will be pretty deep and will contain the sub. also the room is 20 x 35 or so behind is open.

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