Coronavirus

[Irvrobinson]

Irv, you still have a lot to learn about the EU. I have been trying to inform you of the incompetence and worse, of the EU for years. If you really understood the EU, these actions would make sense and be predictable. The EU has not been known by many in the UK as the EUSSR without good reason.

If you are correct I do indeed have a lot to learn about the EU. To me its entire concept of government was always a ridiculous notion, but I apparently gave them too much credit for logical thinking.

 

[Trell]

I have to say though, it might be kind of cool to turn into a crocodile. I'll bet crocodiles are immune to the corona virus.

>>>Other animals sold in pet stores including, birds, reptiles, fish, and insects do not appear to be susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection.<<<

Community, Work, and School

Actions that communities can take to slow the spread of COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

No pretty Princess is going to kiss a crocodile so I suggest you change to something less possibly permanent. I heard that frogs should work.

 

[Swerd]

I just watched the BBC news at 6:00 PM for today. The NHS has run its data base of the clotting incidence of vaccinated and non vaccinated patients, age corrected. The incidence is the same in both groups. So this is nonsense what they have done in Denmark, Norway, Iceland and now Austria.
The vaccine is effective and safe.

All causes of death, primary as well as secondary causes, for that one Austrian patient must be carefully determined. And the role, if any, of the vaccination must be assessed. Was this the patient who died due to DVT (deep vein thrombosis)? Any opinion that the vaccine played a role in the patient's DVT, or played no role, is ultimately the best medical opinions of those responsible for the investigation. It would therefore be an assessment that has never been seen before. A database can only provide evidence consistent or inconsistent with such a novel assessment. It cannot prove a truly novel assessment.

I am certainly rooting for the AZ vaccine as well. (My wife worked for AZ for years, and we own stock.) I'd like to believe that the thrombosis case is not related to the vaccine. But I will stand up to support the idea that drug regulatory agencies must be allowed to do their work without political interference of any kind. If the thrombosis is dismissed now as unrelated, and more cases occur in the future after vaccinations, the harm will be far greater than a 2-week suspension in vaccinations.

Finally – Denmark and Austria are in the EU, but Norway and Iceland are not.

 

[TLS Guy]

All causes of death, primary as well as secondary causes, for that one Austrian patient must be carefully determined. And the role, if any, of the vaccination must be assessed. Was this the patient who died due to DVT (deep vein thrombosis)? Any opinion that the vaccine played a role in the patient's DVT, or played no role, is ultimately the best medical opinions of those responsible for the investigation. It would therefore be an assessment that has never been seen before. A database can only provide evidence consistent or inconsistent with such a novel assessment. It cannot prove a truly novel assessment.

I am certainly rooting for the AZ vaccine as well. (My wife worked for AZ for years, and we own stock.) I'd like to believe that the thrombosis case is not related to the vaccine. But I will stand up to support the idea that drug regulatory agencies must be allowed to do their work without political interference of any kind. If the thrombosis is dismissed now as unrelated, and more cases occur in the future after vaccinations, the harm will be far greater than a 2-week suspension in vaccinations.

Finally – Denmark and Austria are in the EU, but Norway and Iceland are not.

At this time there is no reason to suspend vaccinations. The UK register is vast, and they can easily age match people who have received the vaccine and those that have not. The UK have stated that there is no significant difference in the groups. The number of people presenting with some sort of clotting in both groups is quite large. Given the huge numbers of vaccine doses administered in the UK, I'm not surprised. You have to bear in mind that people being admitted to hospital for clot is one of the commonest reason for admission to hospital via the ER. Given that the elderly are a priority for vaccination you would expect the numbers with clot to be large, given that problems due to blood clot rise exponentially with age. So halting a vaccine roll out in a pandemic for this is totally absurd and clinically unjustified.
If this were a significant problem it would have shown up long ago.

 

[Mr._Clark]

This may have been posted here already, but the decline in nursing home deaths here in the U.S. after the vaccine rollout began has been quite dramatic. I realize a correlation does not necessarily prove causation, but we have an expression in the legal world that I believe applies in this case: res ipsa loquitur -"the thing speaks for itself"

Nursing Homes, Once Hotspots, Far Outpace U.S. in Covid Declines (Published 2021)

New cases among residents of nursing homes have dropped more than 80 percent since vaccines became available, and deaths have decreased by more than 65 percent.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Trell]

...

Finally – Denmark and Austria are in the EU, but Norway and Iceland are not.

Norway and Iceland is members of EES, so much/most(?) of the regulations from EU has to be followed without the benefit of actual EU membership where one has much more influence. They are also part of the Schengen Area that have abolished passports and border controls at internal borders.

I think they should be full members of EU, and I voted so the second time membership was up in Norway. The downside today is that one probably have to join the Euro which is a real downside.

European Economic Area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Schengen Area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kvn_Walker]

This may have been posted here already, but the decline in nursing home deaths here in the U.S. after the vaccine rollout began has been quite dramatic. I realize a correlation does not necessarily prove causation, but we have an expression in the legal world that I believe applies in this case: res ipsa loquitur -"the thing speaks for itself"

Nursing Homes, Once Hotspots, Far Outpace U.S. in Covid Declines (Published 2021)

New cases among residents of nursing homes have dropped more than 80 percent since vaccines became available, and deaths have decreased by more than 65 percent.

www.nytimes.com

View attachment 45567

On that same note (and anecdotally), my wife told me last night that she’s seeing a distinct decrease in severe ICU cases at work. Best news I’ve heard from her in a while. She was going through some severe depression in January and February.

A lot of people are going to refuse the shot, mostly due to poor leadership making this whole thing political last year, but overall we’re slowly rounding the corner, which is a beautiful thing.

Personally, I’m still waiting for either work or the VDH to notify me... “I can’t get no, satisvaction...”

 

[GO-NAD!]

It has happened already. First the Germans including Merkel bad mouthed the vaccines. They had a surplus of vaccines build up even though few had been vaccinated. Then Macron of France got on the bandwagon and called the AstraZeneca vaccine barely effective.

This has been a cynical ploy. If you have messed up big time, and they have, then you reduce demand, and hey presto, the shortage disappears. If you are a Eurocrat in that dreadful organization, it makes perfect sense. Ursula Von der Lying, the president, bears huge responsibility for the fiasco, but refuses to resign. She has no electoral accountability to EU citizens whatsoever. Only 32% of the UK population are now in favor of rejoining the EU. This number continues to fall.

Here are the European vaccination rates as of March 9. The UK is vaccinating at least 250,000 a day and sometimes 500,000 a day. They will be heading to 50% very soon, and are aiming for herd immunity no later than June 21 with cancellation of all restrictions. The EU on the other hand leads with Malta, a tiny Island that got extra doses by mistake at 23%. Hungary is next because they bought Sputnik 5 and Chinese Sinopharm off the ration. They are at 15%. Denmark are at 13%, Norway at 11% and Iceland at 12%. Norway and Iceland are non EU, but I believe joined the EU purchasing consortium, but I could be wrong about that. Germany has done 10% and so has France. Germany has also started buying off the ration.
Italy has done 9.5% and confiscated a large quantity of AstraZeneca vaccine made in Italy that Australia had already purchased.

Irv, you still have a lot to learn about the EU. I have been trying to inform you of the incompetence and worse, of the EU for years. If you really understood the EU, these actions would make sense and be predictable. The EU has not been known by many in the UK as the EUSSR without good reason.

As poorly as the EU is perceived to be performing with vaccination numbers, they're doing far better than we are in Canada. As of yesterday, we stood at 1.55% fully vaccinated. That was the major factor in the decision to delay second doses in favour of maximizing first dose numbers. The problem here has been actually getting the vaccines delivered to the country.

The only saving grace - in the Atlantic Provinces, at least - is that when we have had spikes in cases, we have managed to wrestle them back down to miniscule numbers.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

As poorly as the EU is perceived to be performing with vaccination numbers, they're doing far better than we are in Canada. As of yesterday, we stood at 1.55% fully vaccinated. That was the major factor in the decision to delay second doses in favour of maximizing first dose numbers. The problem here has been actually getting the vaccines delivered to the country.

The only saving grace - in the Atlantic Provinces, at least - is that when we have had spikes in cases, we have managed to wrestle them back down to miniscule numbers.

No facilities in-country that could manufacture that vaccine?

 

[cpp]

I find it interesting how the second or even the first does of the vaccine effects different people. The majority of people in my age group 65 and above just seem to get a headache with the second or just a sore arm at the injection site with both. And females seem to be the ones with the most aches, but a close friend of mine a dental hygienist (53) got her 2 second yesterday and felt no issues at all. My sister 62 a Hospital official after her second had a headache. A older lady acccriss the street, 73 felt like crap on her first, but after her second shot on Monday only had a core arm. MY older daughter (38) a ENT had nauasa , fever, headache, felt like crap for days. But it appears the men, only the people I actually know my age group ( not from the news) only had sore arms . I guess I will see come next Wed at 9:30.

 

[GO-NAD!]

No facilities in-country that could manufacture that vaccine?

All our vaccine manufacturing capacity is otherwise occupied. There are efforts afoot to expand that capacity.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

MY older daughter (38) a ENT had nauasa , fever, headache, felt like crap for days.

That's how my wife (49) took her first shot. She was miserable the day of, and more miserable the day after. Then she was fine.

 

[cpp]

That's how my wife (49) took her first shot. She was miserable the day of, and more miserable the day after. Then she was fine.

I wonder if the vaccine effects the younger people a little more. say under 50 and more females than males. Maybe it has something to do with the immune system.

 

[TLS Guy]

Norway and Iceland is members of EES, so much/most(?) of the regulations from EU has to be followed without the benefit of actual EU membership where one has much more influence. They are also part of the Schengen Area that have abolished passports and border controls at internal borders.

I think they should be full members of EU, and I voted so the second time membership was up in Norway. The downside today is that one probably have to join the Euro which is a real downside.

European Economic Area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Schengen Area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for confirming that. That is what I stated in my post 4759: "Norway and Iceland are non EU, but I believe joined the EU purchasing consortium, but I could be wrong about that." I thought they were closely allied to the EU in many respects.

Think about voting to join the EU. It is a bad plan. The EU is a rotten corrupt antidemocratic organization. You would be far better off forming a free trade group with the UK. Marie Le Pen looks as if she has a good chance of becoming the President of France next year. If that happens there will be Frexit. The Germans are getting restive, and may well bolt when all the bills from the pandemic fall disproportionally on them. The Dutch also are getting increasingly restive. This vaccine debacle will do enormous damage to the EU, especially after it becomes apparent that the UK moves ahead at speed economically after breaking free of the pandemic.

There is more good new. Novovax a US engineered vaccine, but which will be produced at a huge new factory on the Tyne UK. Phase three trials in the UK show the vaccine 86% effective and comparable to the others. It will likely be approved for emergency distribution soon.

Studies today show that the case numbers in the UK may now be so low that there are more false positives than true positives. There is a concern though that cases may be showing a slight rise in cases in the South East of England. Canterbury has been showing a rising number of cases for a couple of weeks at least, with no apparent reason identified.
Cases have been rising 50% week on week. I just hope there is not another variant from Kent.

 

[TLS Guy]

As poorly as the EU is perceived to be performing with vaccination numbers, they're doing far better than we are in Canada. As of yesterday, we stood at 1.55% fully vaccinated. That was the major factor in the decision to delay second doses in favour of maximizing first dose numbers. The problem here has been actually getting the vaccines delivered to the country.

The only saving grace - in the Atlantic Provinces, at least - is that when we have had spikes in cases, we have managed to wrestle them back down to miniscule numbers.

The UK may be able to help soon. There is likely to be a surplus of vaccine in the UK quite soon. If Novovax is approved soon, and I think it will be in the UK and US, then that should be able to be shipped to you. It looks like a good vaccine. The US likely has also now ordered more vaccine than it probably needs. purchasing 100,000,000 doses of the J & J vaccine yesterday.

 

[highfigh]

No pretty Princess is going to kiss a crocodile so I suggest you change to something less possibly permanent. I heard that frogs should work.

I think you over-estimate the selectiveness of Princesses. After a bad breakup, anything is possible.

 

[highfigh]

Think about voting to join the EU. It is a bad plan. The EU is a rotten corrupt antidemocratic organization. You would be far better off forming a free trade group with the UK. Marie Le Pen looks as if she has a good chance of becoming the President of France next year. If that happens there will be Frexit. The Germans are getting restive, and may well bolt when all the bills from the pandemic fall disproportionally on them. The Dutch also are getting increasingly restive. This vaccine debacle will do enormous damage to the EU, especially after it becomes apparent that the UK moves ahead at speed economically after breaking free of the pandemic.


Studies today show that the case numbers in the UK may now be so low that there are more false positives than true positives. There is a concern though that cases may be showing a slight rise in cases in the South East of England. Canterbury has been showing a rising number of cases for a couple of weeks at least, with no apparent reason identified.
Cases have been rising 50% week on week. I just hope there is not another variant from Kent.

If more countries leave the EU, how will Greece survive?

What have you heard about the vaccine in pill form?

 

[Mr._Clark]

Just to throw some gasoline onto the AstraZeneca vaccine debate, the U.S. is sitting on millions of doses because the vaccine is not yet approved here.

In this context, I almost wish the government would let individuals decide if they want to get the vaccine (I'm putting on my official Audioholics approved virtual Nomex suit in anticipation of getting flamed by Swerd )(hopefully, use of "almost" will reduce the severity of the flames somewhat). This is not the same as the anti mask debate because the anti maskers are increasing not only their own risk, but they are putting others at risk as well. One's decision to get a vaccine that is in wide use around the world will not put others at risk. To the contrary, it may well reduce risks to others. Also, to the extent the safety of the vaccine is unproven, we are already putting people at risk in the trials.

Realistically, given what we know from other countries, what is the actual risk if it were to be approved here on a limited basis?

What are the counterarguments? (This is meant in the spirit of an actual dialog; I can't think of any really great arguments on the other side offhand).


>>>A stockpile of vaccine sits idle in the U.S., and Europe asked to tap into it. . . . The AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine has been authorized for use in more than 70 countries, but the United States is not yet one of them. And as American officials wait for results from the company’s U.S. trial and then emergency clearance, tens of millions of doses sit idly in American manufacturing facilities — even as other countries beg for access.

The doses’ fate is the subject of an intense debate among White House and federal health officials, with some arguing that the administration should let them go abroad where they are desperately needed, while others are not ready to relinquish them. . . . AstraZeneca has asked the Biden administration to let it send the American doses to the European Union. The administration, for now, has denied the request, one official said. . . . Public health experts expect medical conditions to turn up by chance in some people after receiving any vaccine. In the vast majority of cases, such illnesses have nothing to do with the shots. Most other countries [besides Denmark] where the AstraZeneca vaccine has been given to many millions of people have not reported similar red flags. . . . The administration’s moves to order more supply of the three vaccines authorized by the F.D.A. has further sidelined AstraZeneca’s candidate. The United States may only briefly, or never, need the AstraZeneca doses.<<<

Covid-19: Pace of U.S. Vaccinations Accelerates

The United States will partner with Japan, India and Australia on global vaccine production capacity. Europe, hungry for vaccines, asks to tap into a U.S. stockpile of AstraZeneca’s.

www.nytimes.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

The UK may be able to help soon. There is likely to be a surplus of vaccine in the UK quite soon. If Novovax is approved soon, and I think it will be in the UK and US, then that should be able to be shipped to you. It looks like a good vaccine. The US likely has also now ordered more vaccine than it probably needs. purchasing 100,000,000 doses of the J & J vaccine yesterday.

The federal government has contracts with the major vaccine players that will eventually allow us to catch up with vaccination rates. But, not having the manufacturing capacity to make them here (because it's already maxed out, making other vaccines) really impacted vaccination rates. Our first 500,000 doses of the AZ vaccine were manufactured by the Serum Institute in India and another two million will come through that agreement. A further 20 million doses already secured with AstraZeneca will start to arrive in the spring. Deliveries from Pfizer-BioNtech, Moderna, and now, J & J, should also soon ramp up.

We've been quite fortunate in the Atlantic Provinces with our infection rates and while people are looking forward to getting vaccinated, we aren't in a hair-on-fire panic about it. In fact, of the vaccines we have received, a significant number were diverted to northern Indigenous communities with a more vulnerable populace, as it was deemed that they had a greater need. I've heard no complaints, as it is seen as being for the greater good.

Maybe it's because of our relative safety here, but I personally don't see the vaccination efforts as a race for bragging rights for any country. As long as they are going into arms somewhere on the planet, I'm OK with that. If vaccines are stuck in transit or sitting in warehouses due to incompetent planning, that would be much different and I would have no patience with that.

 

[GO-NAD!]

If more countries leave the EU, how will Greece survive?

What have you heard about the vaccine in pill form?

Countries like Germany need countries like Greece to keep the Euro currency from appreciating, which would make their exports uncompetitive.