Needing some advice for an integrated amp. Have a budget of about 3k give or take.

[robladw]

Currently my set up is a Crown Drive Core 2 amp with a cheap preamp. I have JBL studio 530s which I like. These are just fun engaging speakers. They pair pretty well with the lively Crown amp but seem thin in the mids. In this set up. I've got an older Marantz DAC 1 that is still pretty good. My sources in the room are PC, CD Player and turntable.
I've been studying and reading for a while. My plan is to get the integrated amp first. See how it pairs with the JBLs then upgrade speakers and probably get the matching electronics for whatever amp I decided on. I would like to eventually be able to hook subs up to speaker connections on the amp but not being able to is not a deal killer. I do not need a phono stage or DAC built into the amp though one of the other would be nice if it is good quality. I like good sound stage and separation. I like neutral to maybe a little warm. I am not a fan of cool or thin. This is the problem with the current setup up. While it is good it is a little cool and thin. I think most of this is due to the amp though.

Here are the options I am currently considering after reading and checking them out.
Yamaha A-S 1200
Marantz Model 30
Musical Fidelity M5si or M6si
Technics SU-G 700
Then on the extreme side of my budget Denon PMA-A110
I listen to most types of music but probably spend most of my time listening to country, 70s, 80,s, and 90s rock. 70s disco and Motown. Country, bluegrass, with jazz, classical, and scores thrown into the mix. Right now with what I have raid I tend to be leaning toward the Technics, Model 30, or M5. You guys have have you heard or own any of this gear or have suggestions on something I may be missing?

 

[shadyJ]

The Crown amp is not coloring the speaker sound. If you want to change the tonality of the speaker, use equalization.

 

[robladw]

The Crown amp is not coloring the speaker sound. If you want to change the tonality of the speaker, use equalization.

Thanks I will give it a try. I attribute it to the amp I guess largely due to the class D history. Class D has improved a lot though it seems. This little system was always meant to be a bit of a stepping stone since work from home began and I had to convert a room in to an office. It is just something I through together. I had taken some time off from the hobby for a while but since getting the office I am back in to it. I will say for the money that crown is a good amp that punches above it's price point. Is very neutral and clean. Same with these JBL speakers I caught them on sale. I got the 570s the 530s, the 550p subs and center. When I get my permanent system in here they will end up in the surround system. Like the amp these speakers punch well above their price point if you catch them on sale.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your limitation is more likely in the speakers and/or your room rather than the electronics. A 3k integrated amp IMO will bring nothing significant other than the cost and maybe a prettier facade. I use both Crowns and those JBLs (the 530s at least, have 590s and 580s for mains/surrounds, 530s are rear surrounds). It's not wine/food, there's little "pairing" going on between amps/pre-amps. Rather than spend money on electronics, upgrading your speakers would make more sense.....

 

[Kleinst]

Out of curiosity how do you like your 570s and are they used for Music? I was considering some of those. Have 590/530 set up but that's 100% TV/Movies.

 

[Pogre]

Amplification won't offer much in the way of changing or improving your sound. It's just a different look, which may indeed placebo you into hearing some sort of difference. Room and speakers have a lot more to do with what you hear than the electronics.

 

[highfigh]

Why not keep the amp, buy a good preamp and use the leftover money to take a short vacation?

 

[robladw]

Out of curiosity how do you like your 570s and are they used for Music? I was considering some of those. Have 590/530 set up but that's 100% TV/Movies.

Yes they are firecrackers. Very musical and energetic. As far as being perfect speakers they are not. They have a way of adding energy to anything you throw at them and making music fun and engaging. They have pretty good detail pretty good response. You can not go wrong if you catch them on sale. If you have the others then you know these horns are not traditional horns. If you tried the 530s with music it is much the same experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

Might consider a sub and if your pre-amp doesn't have bass management then that's something else to think about.

 

[robladw]

Might consider a sub and if your pre-amp doesn't have bass management then that's something else to think about.

I have the JBL 550s I am currently using. They are actually better subs than I thought they would be when I grabbed the pair for 189.00 each on sale. They will end up in surround eventually though.

 

[robladw]

Why not keep the amp, buy a good preamp and use the leftover money to take a short vacation?

This is something I have actually considered. Just not sure where to go for a preamp. I am actually using an IOTA VX as a preamp I picked up from a friend at work. I originally ran it as an amp but it did not do a good job of driving the JBLs as they are rated at 84 DB I think it is.

 

[Pogre]

I have the JBL 550s I am currently using. They are actually better subs than I thought they would be when I grabbed the pair for 189.00 each on sale. They will end up in surround eventually though.

Those really aren't bad little subs for the price for sure, but they are "little" subs. Depending on your room size a larger sub might offer you more improvements than you might think. I was blown away with what some larger subs did for me, and I mean for good, clean, deeper bass. Not more or boomier bass. I have them dialed in nice and even, just there for support to add depth and texture.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is something I have actually considered. Just not sure where to go for a preamp. I am actually using an IOTA VX as a preamp I picked up from a friend at work. I originally ran it as an amp but it did not do a good job of driving the JBLs as they are rated at 84 DB I think it is.

I have the JBL 550s I am currently using. They are actually better subs than I thought they would be when I grabbed the pair for 189.00 each on sale. They will end up in surround eventually though.

Ah, missed the extra bit about the speakers/subs and pre.

JBL rates the 530s as 86dB, the 570s as 88dB. Amir/ASR measured with his Klippel testing 85dB on the 530.

 

[robladw]

Ah, missed the extra bit about the speakers/subs and pre.

JBL rates the 530s as 86dB, the 570s as 88dB. Amir/ASR measured with his Klippel testing 85dB on the 530.

That would seem about right. I was running off of memory.

 

[robladw]

Those really aren't bad little subs for the price for sure, but they are "little" subs. Depending on your room size a larger sub might offer you more improvements than you might think. I was blown away with what some larger subs did for me, and I mean for good, clean, deeper bass. Not more or boomier bass. I have them dialed in nice and even, just there for support to add depth and texture.

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised by the subs. Actually I was impressed by the whole studio 5 line based on the prices I paid. I could find no reviews on the subs so I was most skeptical of them. I was expecting just boom out of them but the are actually pretty good and have decent texture and tone and keep up pretty well. This whole system I am running was never meant to be permanent it was all meant to be temporary while I decided what I wanted long term. Like I said it was always my intention to move these studio 5s to surround system. I just wanted something to put in the home office since work from home started suddenly while I get the office situated.

Has anyone around here head the JBL HDIs yet? That new speaker line has me interested. I am hoping they are like the studio 5 line all grown up and more refined.

 

[lovinthehd]

Has anyone around here head the JBL HDIs yet? That new speaker line has me interested. I am hoping they are like the studio 5 line all grown up and more refined.

Shadyj has https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/jbl-hdi-3800

I'd like to hear them someday. Then again I'd love some M2s more

 

[robladw]

Shadyj has https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/jbl-hdi-3800

I'd like to hear them someday. Then again I'd love some M2s more

Yeah I am interested in them. More for the music and the fact I really like what the 570s and 530s could do in a 2 channel system for the money. I've managed to find this video where he is getting ready to review them. I am more interested in the bookshelf versions for the time being though. If I brought an M2 home my wife would make me build a place on the back 40 to live in and enjoy them. What I am working on in this office/game room now the kids finally got the hell out is a music system. Any way here is a sound test this cat did with HDI he dropped before his review.

. He talks about them being great for rock which is more what I am looking for. Now that I have started listening and reading about the suggestions you guys are making I think I may grab my speakers and a good streamer with room correction before I get the end game amp and go from there. I really am liking what I read about the NAD C658 . It is suppose to have good room correction software plus some expansion slots for future proof they have already released HDMI card for. Not to mention the DAC seems to be well implemented and a ton of features for the price.

.
That streamer would let me retire the preamp and DAC I am currently using as well as the CD player. I have converted most of my CDs to files long ago.

Speakers I am considering so far are the B&W 706, JBL HDI, and Elac Vela BS 403.

 

[highfigh]

This is something I have actually considered. Just not sure where to go for a preamp. I am actually using an IOTA VX as a preamp I picked up from a friend at work. I originally ran it as an amp but it did not do a good job of driving the JBLs as they are rated at 84 DB I think it is.

If the amp is powerful, it's not the Iota that's failing to drive the speakers, it's failing to send enough signal to the power amp to allow it to develop enough power. Most Crown amps have two sensitivity settings- use .775V.

From their web page for the Drive Core amps-

"Selectable input sensitivity; 1.4Vrms and .775Vrms options so that amp can be driven at full power"

Also, turn the input level control up to full.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why the NAD particularly? Seems pretty pricey for what it is.

If the amp is powerful, it's not the Iota that's failing to drive the speakers, it's failing to send enough signal to the power amp to allow it to develop enough power. Most Crown amps have two sensitivity settings- use .775V.

From their web page for the Drive Core amps-

"Selectable input sensitivity; 1.4Vrms and .775Vrms options so that amp can be driven at full power"

Also, turn the input level control up to full.

I took him to say he used the Iota unit first with its amp section, determined that wasn't enough and made it a pre-only with the XLS amp.....but perhaps more details are in order. I'd still start with 1.4V setting and only use .775V if necessary (which I haven't found necessary).

 

[robladw]

Why the NAD particularly? Seems pretty pricey for what it is.


I took him to say he used the Iota unit first with its amp section, determined that wasn't enough and made it a pre-only with the XLS amp.....but perhaps more details are in order. I'd still start with 1.4V setting and only use .775V if necessary (which I haven't found necessary).

This is correct. Yeah the Iota did not power the 570s or 530s that well. It was ok but but just lacked some drive. I dug in on the NAD and decided there was better. I am still looking and thinking about how to proceed.

I keep coming back to the Technics SU-G 700. One of the things I want to do is get rid of a couple of the components. That SU-G700 is suppose to have good Phono Stage, and DAC as well as Amp and Pre Amp. I have ripped most of my CDs to FLAC over the years so I really do not need the CD. I have all my music being served up on my FreeNAS network. I could survive off the SU-G700 my turntable and a streamer that is where I want to end up. I want to get good quality components as I plan on keeping them long term. As far as streamers go I really like the feature set on the NAD but I think there is better and I think we will see more products like it soon.