Emotiva T1+ Tweeters Burning Up??

[highfigh]

You need to understand we field thousands of problem post here every year. But I have to say this is a totally new low. In fact so much so, I'm dumbfounded that this could happen.

You need to return those for a full refund as totally unusable. Far more likely than not, if you receive a new pair the same thing will happen. Even when I started designing speakers as a kid in short pants, I never caused anything close to that to happen.

I can only think of a couple of reasons a tweeter would become so hot at a low volume setting and none of them are good. I would like to see the voltage at the setting he indicated.

 

[highfigh]

Played a handful of music, average of 72dB on SPL, photo attached of tweeter temp.

The display showed 72? That's not dB, it's displaying a scale that goes to 100, so your signal was likely clipping and/or the output power was too high for the speakers. Go into the menu, enter the Audio area and look for Volume- it will show something about how the level is displayed. Change it to dB and listen again. Then, if it shows 'Full', change it to -10dB, to limit the output. I never allow customers to have full output because it invariably would lead to someone turning it to WOT and blowing up the speakers. It also limits headroom.

FYI- according to their site, your amplifier is rated "490 watts RMS/channel; THD<0.1%; 4 Ohms; two channels driven.". If the AVR is set to 72 out of 100 on the volume control, how loud was it?

One problem is that 2.83V is one Watt, but only when the load is 8 Ohms- with 4 Ohms, that's TWO watts, so the real sensitivity is 85dB @ 1W and the voltage sent to 4 Ohm speakers for one Watt calculated power would need to be 2V. At 85dB/W/M sensitivity, your speakers will produce 105dB @100Watts, so 400W will be in the 111dB range, per speaker.

OTOH, your speakers are rated "Power handling: 150W continuous / 300W peak." and the sensitivity (which is NOT the same as 'efficiency'!)s shown as "Efficiency: 88 dB (2.83V/1m)".

Numbers can be made to lie.

Another possible issue- the amplifier's input sensitivity is shown as "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V". I'm pretty sure your AVR can output at least that voltage, possibly more.

Check the setting for the volume display on the AVR and if it's not set to dB, change it and limit the output. Your amp is more powerful than your speakers can handle at full amplifier output.

 

[slipperybidness]

I thought about the Emo Airmotivs... HARD, when I was shopping back in 2018. Other than the cost, and a few reviews that made them sound way better than they obviously are, I am so glad I did not pursue them.
Other than the fact they hit every branch on the fall from the Ugly Tree...
...They, like many other buzz-ful companies, don't [read:didn't] seem interested in any form of third party testing. Yes, JA did some measurements in 2019 well after I was buying, and it only affirmed that these are not great speakers.
One cat here has a pair of the B-1s modded by Dennis... and I hope he was able to do as much for that speaker as he has done in every other undertaking I've seen. The report is that that particular mad was successful.
Regardless:
I vote:
RUN.
Get your money back, and buy some good speakers!

I have a set of those slim-line Airmotiv Bookshelf speakers (seem to be slimmed versions of the B1, I don't recall the model #). I got them for a great price on closeout. I figured they may make a decent set of surrounds in the future. They sounded pretty good to my ears, but I didn't listen to them for too long before I boxed them up until I figure out their final home.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Played a handful of music, average of 72dB on SPL, photo attached of tweeter temp.

THEM BITCHES GOT THE COVID

 

[highfigh]

The Emotiva speakers are using an AMT tweeter. AMT tweeters are far more robust than ribbon tweeters, and an average AMT should be able to handle a 2.7kHz crossover just fine.

They call it a ribbon tweeter in the description at the beginning of the second paragraph on the page for the T1+-

"The Airmotiv T1+ features a 32 mm Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeter..."

Airmotiv T1+ Loudspeaker Pair

Floorstanding Tower Loudspeakers. The Airmotiv T1+ is a three-way floor standing tower loudspeaker that delivers a superb listening experience with both stereo and surround sound music and movies. The Airmotiv T1+ combines exceptional accuracy, amazing precision and detail retrieval, and...

emotiva.com

 

[shadyJ]

They call it a ribbon tweeter in the description at the beginning of the second paragraph on the page for the T1+-

"The Airmotiv T1+ features a 32 mm Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeter..."

Airmotiv T1+ Loudspeaker Pair

Floorstanding Tower Loudspeakers. The Airmotiv T1+ is a three-way floor standing tower loudspeaker that delivers a superb listening experience with both stereo and surround sound music and movies. The Airmotiv T1+ combines exceptional accuracy, amazing precision and detail retrieval, and...

emotiva.com

A lot of manufacturers mislabel AMTs as ribbon tweeters to make the speaker look fancier than it is. An AMT tweeter functions very differently than a ribbon. You aren't going to find a true ribbon tweeter in a speaker as inexpensive as the Emotivas. They are very clearly using an AMT.

 

[highfigh]

A lot of manufacturers mislabel AMTs as ribbon tweeters to make the speaker look fancier than it is. An AMT tweeter functions very differently than a ribbon. You aren't going to find a true ribbon tweeter in a speaker as inexpensive as the Emotivas. They are very clearly using an AMT.

They are using an AMT, but if they want to be accurate, they shouldn't have written 'ribbon tweeter'.

This seems to be a ribbon tweeter and the price is retail, not wholesale-

Home

Beston RT003C Round Ribbon TweeterThe Beston RT003C's low-mass aluminum diaphragm and high strength/low weight neodymium motor deliver incredible articulation and transient attack. Frequency response actually extends to 40 kHz! The tweeter is ideal for applications demanding compact size, high...

www.parts-express.com

 

[shadyJ]

They are using an AMT, but if they want to be accurate, they shouldn't have written 'ribbon tweeter'.

This seems to be a ribbon tweeter and the price is retail, not wholesale-

Home

Beston RT003C Round Ribbon TweeterThe Beston RT003C's low-mass aluminum diaphragm and high strength/low weight neodymium motor deliver incredible articulation and transient attack. Frequency response actually extends to 40 kHz! The tweeter is ideal for applications demanding compact size, high...

www.parts-express.com

I don't know what's going on with that tweeter, but I don't think it's a true ribbon. It might be a planar tweeter, which also often get mislabeled as ribbon tweeters (an embarrassing mistake I made in one review...) Ribbon tweeters will have transformers to go with them since the ribbon itself has far too low electrical resistance. I don't see a transformer on that tweeter, so I don't believe it's a real ribbon tweeter.

 

[highfigh]

I don't know what's going on with that tweeter, but I don't think it's a true ribbon. It might be a planar tweeter, which also often get mislabeled as ribbon tweeters (an embarrassing mistake I made in one review...) Ribbon tweeters will have transformers to go with them since the ribbon itself has far too low electrical resistance. I don't see a transformer on that tweeter, so I don't believe it's a real ribbon tweeter.

Infinity had a round ribbon tweeter that didn't look much different from the one sold by Parts Express, but I don't think it had the little cone in the center.

EMIT tweeters have rows of magnets, no transformer.

You're not thinking of electrostatic speakers, are you? Those need high voltage.

 

[shadyJ]

Infinity had a round ribbon tweeter that didn't look much different from the one sold by Parts Express, but I don't think it had the little cone in the center.

EMIT tweeters have rows of magnets, no transformer.

You're not thinking of electrostatic speakers, are you? Those need high voltage.

If the Infinity tweeter was a real ribbon, it would have had a transformer. I'm not thinking of electrostats. Ribbons need the transformer for impedance matching.

 

[highfigh]

If the Infinity tweeter was a real ribbon, it would have had a transformer. I'm not thinking of electrostats. Ribbons need the transformer for impedance matching.

Do you have examples?

 

[ryanosaur]

Do you have examples?

Raal, of course:

Raalribbon is under construction

www.raalribbon.com

 

[highfigh]

Raal, of course:

Raalribbon is under construction

www.raalribbon.com

That's one- what about the other tweeters that have been called 'ribbon' over the decades?

 

[ryanosaur]

Also, Aurm Cantus:

Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeters | HIFICollective

Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeters

www.hificollective.co.uk

 

[shadyJ]

Do you have examples?

like, uh... all ribbon tweeters...

Here is a page that is a decent primer on basic tweeter types. From the segment on ribbons: "...they require transformers for impedance matching ..." That is distinct from "pseudo-ribbons," mislabeled ribbons such as planars, AMTs, etc.

 

[ryanosaur]

That's one- what about the other tweeters that have been called 'ribbon' over the decades?

I liken it to cooking: take for instance the word, confit. To cook slowly in it's own fat. How can tomato, shallot, orange segments or cherries be confited?
By definition, they are not the same thing while the word has been adapted to include cooking things slowly in any fat, or no fat (rather syrup) as it applies to fruit.
Language, as we know all to well, is imprecise. Whether it is recent or decades old, does it really surprise that there is a difference between Ribbons, Planars, and AMTs? Much less the interchangeable usage to suit a marketing description?

 

[nathan_h]

Since we didn't see a screen shot of his sound meter, I guess there is the possibility that he is not telling us the SPL on the sound level meter.

But he says he is and that is reads 72db.

(I agree that if his VOLUME knob is set to "72 percent" that is going to be way higher than 72db on a SPL meter and may be a clue about what is going on.)

The display showed 72? That's not dB, it's displaying a scale that goes to 100, so your signal was likely clipping and/or the output power was too high for the speakers. Go into the menu, enter the Audio area and look for Volume- it will show something about how the level is displayed. Change it to dB and listen again. Then, if it shows 'Full', change it to -10dB, to limit the output. I never allow customers to have full output because it invariably would lead to someone turning it to WOT and blowing up the speakers. It also limits headroom.

FYI- according to their site, your amplifier is rated "490 watts RMS/channel; THD<0.1%; 4 Ohms; two channels driven.". If the AVR is set to 72 out of 100 on the volume control, how loud was it?

One problem is that 2.83V is one Watt, but only when the load is 8 Ohms- with 4 Ohms, that's TWO watts, so the real sensitivity is 85dB @ 1W and the voltage sent to 4 Ohm speakers for one Watt calculated power would need to be 2V. At 85dB/W/M sensitivity, your speakers will produce 105dB @100Watts, so 400W will be in the 111dB range, per speaker.

OTOH, your speakers are rated "Power handling: 150W continuous / 300W peak." and the sensitivity (which is NOT the same as 'efficiency'!)s shown as "Efficiency: 88 dB (2.83V/1m)".

Numbers can be made to lie.

Another possible issue- the amplifier's input sensitivity is shown as "Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.5 V". I'm pretty sure your AVR can output at least that voltage, possibly more.

Check the setting for the volume display on the AVR and if it's not set to dB, change it and limit the output. Your amp is more powerful than your speakers can handle at full amplifier output.

 

[shadyJ]

That's one- what about the other tweeters that have been called 'ribbon' over the decades?

That is marketing trying to confuse the issue in making their speakers seem higher-end than they actually are. Read the section in this link on thin-film diaphragm tweeters. Ribbon tweeters are just a thin strip of aluminum in a magnetic field, they are relatively simple. Those other thin-film diaphragm tweeters have more going on.

You can actually make a DIY true ribbon speaker pretty easily, although fairly crude:

 

[highfigh]

That is marketing trying to confuse the issue in making their speakers seem higher-end than they actually are. Read the section in this link on thin-film diaphragm tweeters. Ribbon tweeters are just a thin strip of aluminum in a magnetic field, they are relatively simple. Those other thin-film diaphragm tweeters have more going on.

You can actually make a DIY true ribbon speaker pretty easily, although fairly crude:

I know how they work- the current in the metal creates a magnetic field and causes the diaphragm to move in relation to the permanent magnets- I sold Infinity AND ESS AMT-1b speakers and yes, they're definitely different but there are other ways to make a ribbon work WRT impedance that doesn't involve a transformer- if a resistor was added in series, it would make the amplifier relatively happy because, AFAIK, a ribbon doesn't have a traditional impedance curve, so it would be more similar to a resistive load, rather than reactive.

I have an Infinity EMIT tweeter- if I can get my WT-3 to work, I'll check the impedance and post it.

 

[highfigh]

I liken it to cooking: take for instance the word, confit. To cook slowly in it's own fat. How can tomato, shallot, orange segments or cherries be confited?
By definition, they are not the same thing while the word has been adapted to include cooking things slowly in any fat, or no fat (rather syrup) as it applies to fruit.
Language, as we know all to well, is imprecise. Whether it is recent or decades old, does it really surprise that there is a difference between Ribbons, Planars, and AMTs? Much less the interchangeable usage to suit a marketing description?

To answer your question about veggies and fruit as confit- with great effort.

Pretty sure many people don't worry much/at all about it needing to be in its own fat.

That means many people could be considered 'confit' after sunbathing. In some cases, they don't even need tanning oil.