Speaker crossover/AVR settings etc

C

ciotime

Audioholic
I'm about to get new tower speakers coming from big bookshelves'. Couple of questions re the setup.
1) I've read even if having towers it's still best to designate the mains as small
2) Usually it's advised to set the AVR's crossover to 80HZ to send the lower frequencies to the subs. Doesn't this kind of take the usefulness of capable mains that can play the bottom end?
3) New speakers have a break-in period. If one set's the crossover to 80HZ or even 60HZ does this mean the new speaker's aren't properly broken in coz they're not playing full range?
4) Should the AVR be set to LFE+Main or just LFE?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes with my towers they're still set to small as my subwoofage is more capable.

80hz is a good starting point, but it's a crossover between speaker and sub, where the low pass filter for the sub and the high pass filter for the speaker "crosses over". Don't know about your subs, but mine are far more capable in the bass regions than even my relatively capable towers. I cross higher than 80 generally, tho.

New speaker break in is mostly about you breaking in, good stuff comes as broken in as you need to worry about. Play something for a few minutes if worried. Not a real big concern no matter what.

LFE would be the cleaner use, as LFE+Main creates more overlap in the lower bass area. More preference in the long run, personally I prefer not to use LFE+Main.

Experiment a bit, in the end its what you like. Many like a little extra bottom end.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
3) New speakers have a break-in period.
So you're saying that the speakers change their Sound Signature w/ Breakin?
You're saying that the original sound that the Speaker Designers wanted you to hear changes with Breakin?

tenor-3.gif
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Audioholic Chief
. . .

LFE would be the cleaner use, as LFE+Main creates more overlap in the lower bass area. More preference in the long run, personally I prefer not to use LFE+Main.

Experiment a bit, in the end its what you like. Many like a little extra bottom end.
Lovin,
It may be different amoung makers, but at least for Denon AVRs, if Mains/any other Towers are set to Small, then aren't LFE and LFE+Main equivalent?
Please see excerpt from X4500H manual below, even though their language leaves a lot of room for improvement.

LFE (Default):
The low range signal of the channel set to “Small” speaker size is added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.

LFE+Main:
The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
C

ciotime

Audioholic
Yes with my towers they're still set to small as my subwoofage is more capable.

80hz is a good starting point, but it's a crossover between speaker and sub, where the low pass filter for the sub and the high pass filter for the speaker "crosses over". Don't know about your subs, but mine are far more capable in the bass regions than even my relatively capable towers. I cross higher than 80 generally, tho.

New speaker break in is mostly about you breaking in, good stuff comes as broken in as you need to worry about. Play something for a few minutes if worried. Not a real big concern no matter what.

LFE would be the cleaner use, as LFE+Main creates more overlap in the lower bass area. More preference in the long run, personally I prefer not to use LFE+Main.

Experiment a bit, in the end its what you like. Many like a little extra bottom end.
Thanks...I'm using dual SVS PB1000.
 
C

ciotime

Audioholic
.
You can believe what you want to believe.
Just like cables change the sound of your speakers
Not saying I believe the break-in thing but Klipsch themselves are saying one should. If it isn't true then I guess we shouldn't believe everything they say about their speakers right?
Anyway this part isn't really that important. Just thought I'd put it out there.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
A lot of speakers have dual binding posts for Bi-Amping and Bi-Wiring.
Just because they put them on there do you really think they work just because they print it do you really believe it's true
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Not saying I believe the break-in thing but Klipsch themselves are saying one should. If it isn't true then I guess we shouldn't believe everything they say about their speakers right?
Anyway this part isn't really that important. Just thought I'd put it out there.
Klipsch is not immune to audio nonsense. Just read their brochures for their heritage series for proof of that. The reality is that some short term use will lower the resonant frequency of the bass drivers, and you could call that break-in. It doesn't take very long to do. The myth is that it somehow changes the sound for the better. Break-in as it is understood by audiophiles is largely a matter of their own imagination.
 
T

Tailspin70

Audioholic Intern
My Yamaha receiver has a single crossover setting. My fronts and center channel (Energy xl-C and xl-16s) are capable of handling low bass but the 4 in-ceiling Jamo 8.5CS do not have the same range. YPAO assigns 120Hz for the crossover and this is due to the in-ceiling speakers. I'm tempted to set the crossover at 80Hz as I expect all the bass to be sent to the LRC/sub as the ceilings speakers are used for SR/SL and presence and I wouldn't expect these to get much for low frequencies. Would like opinions on if crossover should be set on the least capable speakers or is it more important to set based on the fronts. Basically should I be ok at 80Hz or should I maybe move it to 90-100Hz? I don't plan on leaving it at 120Hz as the sub can only go to 100Hz anyway.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Lovin,
It may be different amoung makers, but at least for Denon AVRs, if Mains/any other Towers are set to Small, then aren't LFE and LFE+Main equivalent?
Please see excerpt from X4500H manual below, even though their language leaves a lot of room for improvement.

LFE (Default):
The low range signal of the channel set to “Small” speaker size is added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.

LFE+Main:
The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Just saw this. Just by what you posted they're not the same as far as the way they manage bass.....with LFE it is using a crossover with the speakers (i.e. set to "small"). With LFE+Main it will use the low range of the speakers as well as the subs together, if you set a crossover it is to limit that area of duplication. This article has some details https://subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Audioholic Chief
Just saw this. Just by what you posted they're not the same as far as the way they manage bass.....with LFE it is using a crossover with the speakers (i.e. set to "small"). With LFE+Main it will use the low range of the speakers as well as the subs together, if you set a crossover it is to limit that area of duplication. This article has some details https://subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Lovin,
Thanks for the reply and article. I think I understand it better now, but still have doubts.

The picture of what is going on between speaker/AVR/sub appears to be different if you view it from a speaker perspective vs a sub perspective.

Who on earth thought this LFE/LFE+Main/Small/Large approach was "the best or brightest idea" is beyond me. It shouldn't be this obtuse. Not to mention the inaccurate/imprecise use of the term crossover in the whole mess.
Argh!
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Lovin,
Thanks for the reply and article. I think I understand it better now, but still have doubts.

The picture of what is going on between speaker/AVR/sub appears to be different if you view it from a speaker perspective vs a sub perspective.

Who on earth thought this LFE/LFE+Main/Small/Large approach was "the best or brightest idea" is beyond me. It shouldn't be this obtuse. Not to mention the inaccurate/imprecise use of the term crossover in the whole mess.
Argh!
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I'd just think of it as some options for preference. I still play around with it once in a while, just nice to have options. It also has to do with the concept of using your speakers primarily and just adding bass with the double bass type options; somewhat how subs worked in most of the two ch setups without any bass management is also part of it. I'd like to see more options....variable choices of crossover slopes or separate implementation of low and high pass filters for example. The use of the term "crossover" on subs with only a low pass filter has always annoyed me....
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Also, the crossover point isn't a brick wall. It's more a gradual roll off and there's overlap so you're not really wasting anything. Your speakers will still be playing content below 80 hz.

I had very capable towers with my SVS Ultras but because of room interaction a lower crossover made my bass sound anemic. I was bumping it up to 100 hz to get more low-mid bass. There are a lot of variables. Like was suggested, experiment and see what sounds best to you. 60 hz might sound great in your room.

Edit: Break in is a myth. I think it's more about you breaking in to your new speakers. So you don't get them home, listen for a half hour then bring them back. Give it a week or 3 and your ears and brain are now "broken in" to the speakers. You get used to the new timbre so you're more inclined not to return them.
 
Last edited:
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I'm about to get new tower speakers coming from big bookshelves'. Couple of questions re the setup.
1) I've read even if having towers it's still best to designate the mains as small
2) Usually it's advised to set the AVR's crossover to 80HZ to send the lower frequencies to the subs. Doesn't this kind of take the usefulness of capable mains that can play the bottom end?
3) New speakers have a break-in period. If one set's the crossover to 80HZ or even 60HZ does this mean the new speaker's aren't properly broken in coz they're not playing full range?
4) Should the AVR be set to LFE+Main or just LFE?
1) yes
2) no. Because even if you don’t take advantage of the extension, bigger more capable speakers tend to be more dynamic above the XO. So it’s not only about extension.
3)no. Not a thing. Just audiophool crap.
4)depends. Usually not. I’ve found it to make bass muddy more often than not.
 
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