Coronavirus

[TLS Guy]

Since the initial outbreak, what has China done that makes them untrustworthy?

Not cooperating with the international community to investigate the source of this virus.

Still meeting out ruthless punishment to journalist trying to get to the truth. Last week the imprisoned a young thirty something female journalist after a trial of 30 minutes.

Building up their military including a deep water navy.

These people are not to be trusted and we need to regard them as our enemy.

Actually the world is due massive reparations from China, for hiding this illness for months. The initial reports of this virus were illicitly sent out from brave Chinese physicians, via colleagues in Honk Kong.

Make no mistake, they are very bad actors.

 

[Swerd]

In a situation like this, you have to take the word of reliable individuals …

Whose word I accept doesn't matter. It's what the FDA accepts. They insist on seeing all the data, including the statistical analyses.

Professor Jonathan Van Tam, the UK chief scientific advisor, has seen all the data. He and the chair of the regulator say that off all the people who have had at least one dose of the active vaccine, only two developed clinical illness. They developed their illnesses within 48 hours of receiving the vaccine. So they were infected before immunization. There were no other cases, hospitalizations or deaths in the immunized groups. So, in effect the vaccine is actually 100% effective, as are the others.

For this observation, how many people were immunized? What was the total N?

If I remember correctly, similar clinical illness numbers occurred on the Moderna and Pfizer trials.

However those mRNA vaccines are going to require expert administration, and you can bet there will be inadvertent errors in administration, and failure on that account. On the other hand scores of non medical personnel can be trained, and will be trained, to administer the Oxford vaccine.

Inadvertent errors can and will happen regardless of the product in the syringe. Just ask Astra Zeneca about their dosing errors during their clinical trial.

We need a route to herd immunity as fast as possible, or the death toll will be simply awful.

I couldn't agree more. Where I disagree with you is the idea that one and only one vaccine should be selected to achieve population immunity. Use everything we have.

Astra Zeneca is a large international pharmaceutical manufacturer. It may be based in the UK, but it has large research and manufacturing establishments in Sweden, the USA, and elsewhere. It's hard to identify this multi-national corporation as entirely British. I understand your attachment to your home country, but this pandemic is world wide – everyone on this planet is at risk. Waving the Union Jack is, in my opinion, inappropriate.

 

[TLS Guy]

Whose word I accept doesn't matter. It's what the FDA accepts. They insist on seeing all the data, including the statistical analyses.
For this observation, how many people were immunized? What was the total N?

If I remember correctly, similar clinical illness numbers occurred on the Moderna and Pfizer trials.
Inadvertent errors can and will happen regardless of the product in the syringe. Just ask Astra Zeneca about their dosing errors during their clinical trial.
I couldn't agree more. Where I disagree with you is the idea that one and only one vaccine should be selected to achieve population immunity. Use everything we have.

Astra Zeneca is a large international pharmaceutical manufacturer. It may be based in the UK, but it has large research and manufacturing establishments in Sweden, the USA, and elsewhere. It's hard to identify this multi-national corporation as entirely British. I understand your attachment to your home country, but this pandemic is world wide – everyone on this planet is at risk. Waving the Union Jack is, in my opinion, inappropriate.

By no means am I saying that only one vaccine should be approved. My only point is that vaccines have to be practical and scalable. This should have been part of the approval process from the beginning. Professors Gibert and Carr have been making that point from the very start. It is crucial in a pandemic.

I really hope other vaccines in the pipeline will be practical, otherwise we will be in big trouble. Those cold chain vaccines are causing problems everywhere. We do need lots of platforms.

The situation is serious. I just watched the BBC six o'clock news, noon here. All of the experts are describing the situation in the UK as dire. It is because of the new mutation from Sheppey Kent. The virus is marching northward at a furious rate. The president of both the school teachers union, and the head masters association are pushing for school closures. They say they have had too many teachers die over the Christmas recess in Kent in particular. The government have been forced into a U-turn and all schools will now close in tier 4. The teachers are demanding closure throughout the country and likely will not return to work whatever the government says.

Now, my point is this is coming our way. So the FDA has got to adapt to this new situation. They need to accept the opinion of the UK regulator right away. That is the first priority.

The approval process for vaccines in the pipeline to needs be drastically abbreviated.

Even if the vaccines carry some increased risk at this point, it is way less than the mortality and chaos of this virus. We now need to get to herd immunity by any means possible and fast.

It is now rapidly dawning in the UK, that this new mutant strain is an absolute game changer, and totally catastrophic. Don't kid yourself this is coming your way in the US fast, and we have to make some tough, but correct choices. These are not normal times, and normal procedures must not, and can not apply.

 

[panteragstk]

But there was abundant empirical evidence that the vaccine was effective. It wasn't fake.

His statement was ambiguous. "People who received the vaccinations would think they had been vaccinated against the virus when in fact they were not", could mean one of two different things:

1. That he couldn't accept the idea that the vaccine contained no virus, but could immunize against the virus. The injection contained a mixture of mRNA (encoding the virus spike protein) and lipid nanoparticles, but no virus. Only a devout anti-vaxer could believe such nonsense. That's how I understood his admission – as a plea for others to recognize his wisdom – that he was trying to save people from the evil drug companies.
   
   
2. Or, that he intended to degrade the vaccinations by deliberately allowing them to warm up over two nights, rendering them useless. That would not only be an admission of his destructiveness and his guilt, it would also be an admission that he knew the vaccine was potent before he sabotaged it.

I favor the first.

As much as I agree with everything you're saying and the logic behind it, there is another option.

The man is simply stupid. That's it. (granted, that is sort of your #1, but different)

I've met many a professional with professional credentials/degrees that aren't easy to get and been totally dumbfounded at how incredibly stupid they seem. Even about their chosen field.

And I agree, when it happens it truly is shocking as you just simply wouldn't think someone with those qualifications should be a complete moron, but it does happen.

 

[Dude#1279435]

The situation is serious. I just watched the BBC six o'clock news, noon here. All of the experts are describing the situation in the UK as dire. It is because of the new mutation from Sheppey Kent.

Is Sheppey the origin of the new strain? And what was the cause?

I think primary reason for the lockdown was to avoid hospitals reaching max occupancy. Then they have to make a choice and send patients home to their deaths. In LA a nurse was on crying because there are no more respirators. I think it's best to focus on those impacted in the hospitals to get a true feeling of what is happening.

 

[TLS Guy]

Is Sheppey the origin of the new strain? And what was the cause?

I think primary reason for the lockdown was to avoid hospitals reaching max occupancy. Then they have to make a choice and send patients home to their deaths. In LA a nurse was on crying because there are no more respirators. I think it's best to focus on those impacted in the hospitals to get a true feeling of what is happening.

It was a random mutation. Although the Isle of Sheppey, is an odd place to be the origin of this mutant strain, the evidence is overwhelming that that is where it started.
Although largely rural, it is very close to the huge population center of the Medway Towns. When growing up in the Medway Towns, I could see Sheppey from my bedroom window. Kent is the most populous county in the UK, although it is far from the largest in square miles. It is also right on the London rim.

 

[highfigh]

Since the initial outbreak, what has China done that makes them untrustworthy?

Other than lying about what they did to fight it, lying about the number of deaths.....should I continue?

 

[shadyJ]

Other than lying about what they did to fight it, lying about the number of deaths.....should I continue?

I trust the Chinese government more than I trust the USA's present executive branch, and I don't trust the Chinese government any further than I can throw it.

 

[highfigh]

I trust the Chinese government more than I trust the USA's present executive branch, and I don't trust the Chinese government any further than I can throw it.

I don't trust much in our government either, but you might want to take a step back when comparing, to add a bit of distance to our government. The official policies of China are hugely problematic.

 

[Old Onkyo]

I don't trust much in our government either, but you might want to take a step back when comparing, to add a bit of distance to our government. The official policies of China are hugely problematic.

Practice is policy.
The ”America” Trump and his hemorrhoids want to create looks like China.

 

[John Parks]

 

[Old Onkyo]

Move this if you want but the President is on tape trying to get the Georgia officials to fix the election in his favor.
As big as Watergate!
I will wait for the spin

 

[Mr._Clark]

The true efficacy of the Oxford vaccine at different doses and timing is not exactly clear to me. If two full doses are 62% effective, one single dose is 64% effective (70% after 21 days) and "can be 80% effective" (whatever that means) when there are three months between shots, there seems to be little reason to give two doses four weeks apart.

>>>AstraZeneca’s late-stage trial was designed for two injections four weeks apart. . . . In late-stage trials, two full doses were given to the majority of participants in the UK and Brazil and were shown to be 62% effective - but a smaller group of volunteers received by accident half a dose followed by a full dose, and registered 90% effectiveness. They were in Britain and under 55 years of age. . . . One single dose was seen as 64% effective. . . . On Wednesday, the authorities cleared up one doubt raised by the AstraZeneca-Oxford data, saying that a 90% success rate for a half-dose followed by a full dose had not stood up to analysis.

The vaccine can be 80% effective when there are three months between shots, an official involved in approving the vaccine in Britain said at a briefing, higher than the average that the developers themselves had found.

Later in the same briefing, a British scientist involved in the approval of the vaccine said one dose of the vaccine is around 70% effective after 21 days and before the second dose is given.<<<

Factbox: Astra-Oxford vaccine - what's been said about dosage and efficacy

India's drugs regulator on Sunday gave final approval for the emergency use of a two-dose coronavirus vaccine, COVISHIELD, developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University. The regulator did not discuss the recommended intervals between shots.

www.reuters.com

 

[Swerd]

The true efficacy of the Oxford vaccine at different doses and timing is not exactly clear to me.

I'm with you. The results are obscure. So far, those 'hand waving' efforts to explain it all don't help.

The only conclusion I can make is that Astra Zeneca is not yet ready to present their results to the FDA. Complaints that the FDA is too rigid in it's stringent requirements must be taken with a grain of salt. Pfizer and Moderna were both able to meet those same requirements.

 

[shadyJ]

One day there might be a comprehensive book that deals with the US federal government's failure to deal with this disease, and it will be a massive multi-volume tome. I hope it is a digital-only edition, because a print edition would very quickly use up entire forests' worth of wood pulp as catalogs of failure.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm with you. The results are obscure. So far, those 'hand waving' efforts to explain it all don't help.

The only conclusion I can make is that Astra Zeneca is not yet ready to present their results to the FDA. Complaints that the FDA is too rigid in it's stringent requirements must be taken with a grain of salt. Pfizer and Moderna were both able to meet those same requirements.

As professor Jonathan Van Tam pointed out to the press last week: "Do not get hung up on percentage efficacy". A lot of people have now received the Oxford vaccine.
No one who has received one dose has gone to hospital or died after 48 hours of receiving this first dose." That really is what needs to be focused on. If we go on nit picking we will have millions of unnecessary deaths world wide.

I have seen the pictures of the Oxford vaccine shipped by standard parcel delivery and then unpacked and put in the refrigerators ready to be injected tomorrow.

I just spoke with my brother now Sir Paul. He is still in leadership in Kent and has the close ear of national government. They have a dreadful problem. People are now scared to death of this new variant. Everyone knows several people seriously ill. People are now scared to leave they houses for any reason and bolting their doors. Schools can not open in Tier 4. In other tiers local authorities are defying government and refusing to open schools and the teachers threatening to strike. Society is threatening to break down. We just can not afford to do follow usual procedures. The risks of doing so are now far too great. Responsible governments are coming to that realization.

We need to vaccinate. India has just authorized mass distribution of its home grown vaccine before completion of its phase III trial. You will see more and more of this as governments see this pandemic has to be brought to an end. Even is the vaccine is not as safe as others in years past, they will be a lot safer than catching covid-19 and have no hospital to go to, and no possibility of getting care. This is happening now, and will get worse. We absolutely can not be dotting Is and Ts now. We have to move now with what we have. There is no alternative.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Move this if you want but the President is on tape trying to get the Georgia officials to fix the election in his favor.
As big as Watergate!
I will wait for the spin

Yay, we finally found the massive bigly fraud he's been harping on for 2 months!

...just had to look in a mirror.

 

[TLS Guy]

Recent update.

India has given approval to the Oxford vaccine, known in India as Covishield.

They have also given approval to an Indian developed killed vaccine. This vaccine (Covivax) has only completed phase 1 an II clinical trials. They seem to be intent on using early roll out as there phase III trial, and study all those that receive it. I suppose if you have a high transmission rate, you would see a significant reduction in cases in the vaccinated compared to those who have not received the vaccine yet.

Now this pandemic is taking such a serious turn, it does present an ethical dilemma for phase III trials of new vaccines not yet approved. You now have to ask the question, if it is ethical to do a placebo controlled trial, when there are known effective vaccines. So from now on the arms I feel are going to have to be new vaccine versus and known effective vaccine. I suspect this may be part of the thinking of the Indian regulator.

For Covaxin, however, the regulator granted an approval “in clinical trial mode.”

["Experts appeared surprised by this qualifier. When asked what the phrase means, Gagandeep Kang, a microbiology professor at Christian Medical College in the southern city of Vellore, told The Times of India, “I have no clue. I have never seen anything like this before.”

Health minister Vardhan has explained that the “clinical trial mode” would mean that all vaccine recipients will be tracked as if they’re in a trial, and that the approval would add another tool to India’s arsenal against the coronavirus. But given that all vaccine recipients must register with the government, it’s unclear how tracking for Covaxin will differ or be more robust than that for the Covishield vaccine."]

Of concern, Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at Oxford University, has raised serious concerns as to whether the current vaccines will be effective against the new South African mutation. According to him genome studies in Oxford, show more significant changes to the virus resulting in changes to the S-spike protein
This strain is even more infectious than the Kent strain. This is a big problem. Professor Bell thinks the new vaccines may well need to be edited. He feels this could be done for the Oxford vaccine in a six to eight week time frame
This is something that will have to be kept under constant review.

Unfortunately this highlights that we may now be over optimistic that this pandemic will end this year. One thing is clear to me that travel needs to be severely limited until this is sorted out. Clearly there needs to be enormous effort given to control the spread of this latest variant until more is known about it.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I worried that this would eventually mutate into something worse if we didn't get a handle on it early on. Looks like "there" is "here."

 

[Alex2507]

I worried that this would eventually mutate into something worse

If people would just drink more anti-oxidant tea, you wouldn't need all these vaccines ...