Dual 10's or 12's for 2000 cu ft ?

[Wabbit]

Advice on dual 10's or 12's for a approx 2000 cu feet room. There is no door yet (opens to a hallway) so I don't know what that does. Placement is in front corners and it's a bonus room built over a garage.

Darn lighting took out one of my B&W ASW 675's and they're no longer serviceable. Was considering ported SVS's, but looks like Monolith has won out on the specs and price.

I know duals increase SPL, but room size confuses me when we're not in really large spaces. I read the 10 lacks the kick of the 12, but most reviews don't have 2 subs in a room. When I was a kid, the bigger the sub you could fit in the car was always the best (despite the fact you couldn't hear it unless you were 20' away). Like to think I've grown past that.

 

[Kleinst]

No we don't grow past that Most will advise you to get the best sub you can get with the best value. The reality is you will seldom regret buying quality once the thing is paid for. Myself, I've picked up quality subs used and had mostly good luck. But that's a risk.

Generally if you settle for less, you will wish you had bought bigger (Like a TV, who wishes they had bought a smaller TV.. Not usually)

Shady and others will be better for advice than me however.

 

[ryanosaur]

If it's a possibility, do the dual 12" Monoliths over the 10s. Shouldn't even be a question!

 

[lovinthehd]

Dual/multiple subs are more about smoothing room response, altho it does come with a bit of spl bonus/extra overhead. You are putting the door in? Extra volume of space could affect the subs. In a sealed 2000 cuft room I'd still prefer at least 12s myself, but I imagine something like a pair of the Monolith 10s could work fairly well. Kinda depends on your goals for spl/extension, too.

 

[Wabbit]

They're cathedral ceilings. I read on the monoprice site the 12's are THX Ultimate certified for a viewing distance greater then 12' and the 10's are THX Select certitifed for a 10-12' viewing distance. But, Hobie Sechrest on Daily HiFi said 2 10's give you Ultimate. Maybe he was joking. That said, I prefer to sit closer so my screen I purchased looks bigger (actually it's in the middle of the room). I posed the question as it seems as if it could go either way technically speaking.
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[lovinthehd]

Have you checked out shadyj's reviews of the Monolith subs? https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/monolith-10201d-12

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

12’s. Easy.

 

[Truthslayer]

Well the 12's are out of stock for the next 4-6 weeks. A pair with tax included will run you $1700
The 10's are in stock and are on sale every other week for $449 and sometimes $399, so i pair will run you around $950. So technically you could get 3 of the 10's for less than a pair of 12's.

You will be happy either way you go.
I would never have really thought about the 10's until i had the chance to pick up a pair new in box for $300 each.
They have by far exceeded my expectations. And this coming from also owning a 15'' and 18'' sub.
The two 10's will hit harder and dig deeper than you expect. This is in a room 16' x 16' x 9' so 2300 sq ft or so.
Whatever you choose I think you'll be happy. You'll just have to wait on the 12's if that's what you choose.

 

[mazersteven]

For $399 I think I'd rather have a Speedwoofer

 

[Truthslayer]

For $399 I think I'd rather have a Speedwoofer

Music only, maybe. For Home Theater, monolith easily over the rsl speedwoofer.
The speedwoofer is nice and all for music, but after awhile you'll notice, it's just missing something.
I think that's why they appropriately call it a speedwoofer and not a subwoofer.

 

[mazersteven]

Music only, maybe. For Home Theater, monolith easily over the rsl speedwoofer.
The speedwoofer is nice and all for music, but after awhile you'll notice, it's just missing something.
I think that's why they appropriately call it a speedwoofer and not a subwoofer.

Ya I don't know. I've never heard one so I can't comment on performance. I like what I hear about it. But small subs aren't for me.

These are on sale. No experience with them either but Audioholics likes them

Ultra-X12 Subwoofer

The Ultra-X12 brings a whole new meaning to 'tight' bass with a class LH amplifier and the same custom port plug design you came to expect from our LFM series. The Ultra delivers 17Hz to provide the chest thumping bass you are looking for, and with a linear response you no longer need to...

outlawaudio.com

 

[Truthslayer]

Ya I don't know. I've never heard one so I can't comment on performance. I like what I hear about it. But small subs aren't for me.

These are on sale. No experience with them either but Audioholics likes them

Ultra-X12 Subwoofer

The Ultra-X12 brings a whole new meaning to 'tight' bass with a class LH amplifier and the same custom port plug design you came to expect from our LFM series. The Ultra delivers 17Hz to provide the chest thumping bass you are looking for, and with a linear response you no longer need to...

outlawaudio.com

Ya, never thought they were for me either. Was To good of a deal to pass up. These two 10's do far more than i imagined they could.

X12 - Don't look to shabby, not sure how i feel about the two ports firing into the floor like that (especially that close ).
I would imagine when they or whoever test it, they have it on it's side firing forward. Seems like down-firing like that, might possibly cause some port noise issues.

 

[pcosmic]

For movies or music? Either way , get two of these sealed subs. It is in your budget. Forget the monoprice and other crappy sub suggestions. In this thing called life, you need your sub designer to be a thinker! If he's not, you will just get a crappy low iq sub.

This works really well for both movies and music. You can get all the speed articulation, etc of a sealed 10 inch and the sky high SPL levels of large behemoth ported subs (if you need it, best of both worlds).
https://www.tektondesign.com/4-10-sub.html

If wife likes it smaller, here is something smaller.
https://www.tektondesign.com/2-10-sub.html

Pick the color she likes.

 

[ryanosaur]

Let's not derail with this music vs HT BS, please. It is MYTH in the world of modern Subs and it needs to die.

The problem with the speedwoofer is that it is limited in extension... THAT is what it is "missing."

Now, two 10s might make a 12, but sure as fcuk won't make two twelves. I am a firm believer in multiple subs for whatever purpose. I also am a firm believer in buying for headroom. This is why I recommended buying 2 12's. You get the benefit of smoothing your bass response and making sure that almost anything you throw at them will be reproduced cleanly.

In the case of the Monolith 12s being out of stock, either wait for them or not. That's up to OP.

I would add that the THX Ultra certification is a more stringent set of controls and the 12s will perform better than the 10s in the most demanding of situations in terms of clean and linear output.

The Outlaw Subs, designed by Claridy, are excellent products. I own two X-13s, the X-12s bigger brother. Downfiring is no different than front firing in terms of real world performance. Proximity to the floor does not alter the sound.
BTW, Claridy Audio also designed the Monoliths.

I'm not going to get into Tekton more than to say that how Eric conducts his business is entirely up to him. If he decides to start sending his gear out for third party testing and shows us they are as good as his marketing claims, cool. Until then, I won't buy.
BTW, What really happened between Tekton and New Record Day? That was a serious brouhaha, and now the videos aren't available, none of them! *shrugs

 

[Wabbit]

Don't know about 4 drivers at half the power. Still have room mode issues unless you have two of them. Hate the best burger claims.

Can anyone speak to the driver size to seated position distance relationship mentioned in the THX ratings? I suppose that means something. Hence what I was after in the post, proper driver size for room size; if it's really a thing.

 

[ryanosaur]

proper driver size for room size; if it's really a thing.

It's only a thing if you let it be a thing.
The most important thing is how they will work in your space. You said you have an opening to another room which means more space for those LF Waves to wriggle around in. I sit about 6' from 2 13.5" drivers. Works great. THX Ultra rated. Nobody told me I need to sit X feet away like they did when I was a kid watching an old CRT Television!

 

[pcosmic]

Let's not derail with this music vs HT BS, please. It is MYTH in the world of modern Subs and it needs to die.



Now, two 10s might make a 12, but sure as fcuk won't make two twelves. I am a firm believer in multiple subs for whatever purpose. I also am a firm believer in buying for headroom. This is why I recommended buying 2 12's. You get the benefit of smoothing your bass response and making sure that almost anything you throw at them will be reproduced cleanly.

two 10s won't make two twelves? Whachu talking about? I am not talking about two 10s, I AM TALKING ABOUT EIGHT 10s, i.e., FOUR 10s PER SUBWOOFER IN A DUAL SUB CONFIGURATION!

If you have any experience with the old line array speakers from Danny Richie, you'd know what i'm talking about. The only issue with those large line arrays was that you couldn't have a room that was large enough to have your seated position enough apart (for a regular speaker that is, and not everyone is blessed with large rooms). But, for a SUBWOOFER crossed over under 80 hz?? Fck yeah, this is the way to go. We can argue the technical merits all day long, but, i am in the middle of cooking many dishes right now.

Anyways, hope i have enlightened all ye fellas.

P.S
Now, i know Ryanosaur, you're gonna secretly sell those X-13s and get the Tekton subwoofers. I know you are not gonna admit it here. But, that's what you're gonna do....bwaaaahahahaha

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Don't know about 4 drivers at half the power. Still have room mode issues unless you have two of them. Hate the best burger claims.

Can anyone speak to the driver size to seated position distance relationship mentioned in the THX ratings? I suppose that means something. Hence what I was after in the post, proper driver size for room size; if it's really a thing.

Driver size to seated position isn’t as much a thing as driver to overall air volume. It’s true that near field, or very near field(VNF) subs can offer a lot more TR, but that’s with placement less than a foot. IMO and IME the minimum for a subwoofer is 12”. The idea is to couple the driver to the air, and the larger the driver, the easier this becomes. There are ways to get around that with higher excursion capabilities, but then you have other trade offs.
Room construction considerations are important too. Like being on a suspended floor, or concrete slab are often overlooked, but are extremely important.
Historically 10” subs just haven’t offered much in performance for any rooms bigger than a closet. Subs like the pb1000, RSL speedwoofer, and especially the mono have changed that. They won’t work for my large concrete/vaulted room but for others, they can be good options. If you’re looking for real HT bass, large ported subs are the ticket.

 

[shadyJ]

For movies or music? Either way , get two of these sealed subs. It is in your budget. Forget the monoprice and other crappy sub suggestions. In this thing called life, you need your sub designer to be a thinker! If he's not, you will just get a crappy low iq sub.

This works really well for both movies and music. You can get all the speed articulation, etc of a sealed 10 inch and the sky high SPL levels of large behemoth ported subs (if you need it, best of both worlds).
https://www.tektondesign.com/4-10-sub.html

If wife likes it smaller, here is something smaller.
https://www.tektondesign.com/2-10-sub.html

Pick the color she likes.

I am not sure what you are seeing in those designs that makes you think they are so great. The only positive is that they should have a lot of displacement for the given footprint. So you have four 10"s in a cabinet with just 300 watts for the whole deal? I'm guessing those don't have much in the way of a motor. Contrast that with the Monolith 10" motor which is nearly as big as the cone itself:

The Tekton woofers probably don't have much in the way of excursion ability and likely have a relatively high Fs for a subwoofer driver, especially compared to "crappy" subs like the Monolith 10". They probably have a lot of output ability above 60Hz.

The thing is, for a subwoofer with a high Fs to have low bass in a sealed enclosure, you would have to EQ the response. In doing so, you majorly jack up the group delay, and I guarantee you it's going to be a lot worse than this "crappy" sub:

Here is something else to consider: if I asked Monoprice to send me a sub in order to test it to make the performance measurements public, they would have any sub I ask for on its way to me by the end of the day. You think Tekton would react the same way? Monoprice wants public exposure of their products' performance because they are confident in their products. There was one reviewer who attempted measurements of a Tekton review product that turned into a debacle with Tekton, and as far as I know, that review was pulled down.

 

[shadyJ]

two 10s won't make two twelves? Whachu talking about? I am not talking about two 10s, I AM TALKING ABOUT EIGHT 10s, i.e., FOUR 10s PER SUBWOOFER IN A DUAL SUB CONFIGURATION!

If you have any experience with the old line array speakers from Danny Richie, you'd know what i'm talking about. The only issue with those large line arrays was that you couldn't have a room that was large enough to have your seated position enough apart (for a regular speaker that is, and not everyone is blessed with large rooms). But, for a SUBWOOFER crossed over under 80 hz?? Fck yeah, this is the way to go. We can argue the technical merits all day long, but, i am in the middle of cooking many dishes right now.

Anyways, hope i have enlightened all ye fellas.

P.S
Now, i know Ryanosaur, you're gonna secretly sell those X-13s and get the Tekton subwoofers. I know you are not gonna admit it here. But, that's what you're gonna do....bwaaaahahahaha

A subwoofer would need to be 14 feet long to function as a line array for 80Hz, and for lower frequencies it would have to be much longer. A subwoofer line array basically can not be done in a domestic living space.