Compulsory Vaccination in a Democratic Society?

[Mr._Clark]

In a democratic society, there is no place for compulsory vaccination. We should have liberty to decide what is better for us without any pressure. We aren't cattle, we are human beings!

I copied this here in an effort to avoid a political sidetrack in the Coronavirus thread,

It's entirely possible for a democratic government to institute compulsory vaccination.

In the U.S. the Constitution grants individuals rights that cannot be violated by a democratically elected majority. If the legislative branch (democratically elected) passes a law that violates these rights, and if it is enforced by the executive branch (democratically elected), the courts strike it down on the basis that it is unconstitutional.

People have their own views on what is prohibited by the Constitution. This of course fuels debate. However, the courts ultimately decide this question. A subjective belief that a particular law violates a constitutional right doesn't control the outcome.

As of right now, there is no general constitutional prohibition on compulsory vaccination:

On this day, the Supreme Court rules on vaccines and public health | Constitution Center

In the face of future public health emergencies like the Coronavirus, a precedential Supreme Court decision about the government’s power to protect citizens by quarantine and forced vaccinations could receive new interest.

constitutioncenter.org

That's not to say every single mandatory vaccination law that might be enacted would be upheld. The Jacobson case was based on the facts of the case.

A lot of public debate concerning one's liberty to decide appears to be policy based, not actual legal rights. In other words, a lot of the arguments are basically "I don't want the government to tell me what to do even if it's within the power of the government to do so." Making this policy argument to the legislative branch is perfectly legitimate, but there's obviously no guarantee it will be found persuasive.

I've noticed legislators will sometimes refer to a bill as being unconstitutional, or more generally as infringing on individual rights. These appear to be colloquial uses of terms. I doubt that the person making the assertion thinks that the law would actually be struck down in court. The argument seems to be that the constitution not only creates "hard" legal limits, but also provides general principles that should guide policy decisions.

 

[Swerd]

I copied this here in an effort to avoid a political sidetrack in the Coronavirus thread

Thank you for doing this.

It's entirely possible for a democratic government to institute compulsory vaccination.

YES, in all capital letters.

There are plenty of examples of laws that require certain actions, including compulsory vaccination, to protect the health of the public as a whole. Most compulsory vaccination laws are directed at parents who fail to vaccinate their children. Think of measles. But with the emergence of an entirely new viral disease, as we now have, this compulsory vaccination can apply to all individuals. Unless people can verify that they are put at medical risk because of a vaccine, such as people with allergies to known ingredients in a vaccine, they can be vaccinated against their will.

This is no more a violation of personal liberty than laws that govern owning or driving an automobile. We must register our cars, obey the rules of the road, and have liability insurance.

I don't know what laws Canada has about compulsory military service, but in times of national emergency, the USA can draft people, against their will, to serve in the military.

 

[Speedskater]

In the USA there won't be a supply of vaccines for the people that really want it until next summer. For others that are OK, but not eager, it will be next Fall. Come back in a year and we can talk about compulsory vaccinations.

 

[Alex2507]

We aren't cattle,

So much evidence to the contrary ...

 

[NINaudio]

In the USA there won't be a supply of vaccines for the people that really want it until next summer. For others that are OK, but not eager, it will be next Fall. Come back in a year and we can talk about compulsory vaccinations.

If you wait a year to talk about it, by the time a decision is reached it will be too late. It should be discussed before that point.

 

[Hetfield]

As soon as Walgreens has it and it's my turn after those that need it more I will happily go up and rid myself of this stressful virus.
Plus I'm going on a cruise in August, well unfortunately that's hopefully going on a cruise in August and I am almost certain the cruise lines will not allow those not vaccinated on there ships.

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[Swerd]

As soon as Walgreens has it and it's my turn after those that need it more I will happily go up and rid myself of this stressful virus.

You, me, & many many others!

Plus I'm going on a cruise in August, well unfortunately that's hopefully going on a cruise in August and I am almost certain the cruise lines will not allow those not vaccinated on there ships.

Good luck with that. If it's not too late, look into travel/trip insurance for that cruise.

 

[Hetfield]

You, me, & many many others!
Good luck with that. If it's not too late, look into travel/trip insurance for that cruise.

I'm hoping to get my second shot in June sometime. That is my goal anyway. Unless the Johnson and Johnson one is out by then, that's only 1 shot. It's not quite ready yet I hear.
I want my cruise! Missed two last this year. We need our cruise to The Bahamas.

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[Mr._Clark]

So much evidence to the contrary ...

I’m not sure how accurate your avatar is, but you really don’t look very much like cattle to me

 

[lovinthehd]

I personally have not had flu shots for a very long time (40 years?) but in the case of the corona thingy I just might want one. Mandatory as long as they pick up the bill if I have an adverse reaction.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Thank you for doing this.
YES, in all capital letters.

There are plenty of examples of laws that require certain actions, including compulsory vaccination, to protect the health of the public as a whole. Most compulsory vaccination laws are directed at parents who fail to vaccinate their children. Think of measles. But with the emergence of an entirely new viral disease, as we now have, this compulsory vaccination can apply to all individuals. Unless people can verify that they are put at medical risk because of a vaccine, such as people with allergies to known ingredients in a vaccine, they can be vaccinated against their will.

This is no more a violation of personal liberty than laws that govern owning or driving an automobile. We must register our cars, obey the rules of the road, and have liability insurance.

I don't know what laws Canada has about compulsory military service, but in times of national emergency, the USA can draft people, against their will, to serve in the military.

Canada instituted conscription during the later stages of both world wars.

 

[Hetfield]

How the Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Works https://nyti.ms/2WuvMsA

Here is the J&J vaccine. Seems very interesting and into dose so nice and easy. J&J has the capacity to pump out many doses. I'm excited about this one as well.

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[mtrycrafts]

... I will happily go up and rid myself of this stressful virus.
...

You mean you have it now?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am not sure if the constitution is absolute. Certainly there is plenty of evidence it is not as we regulate a lot that is in the constitution.

 

[Hetfield]

You mean you have it now?

No, I meant ask the stress that goes along with worrying about it. People can say "it's only old people or people with underlying conditions" all they want but I do not want this virus and take my chances that I'll be just fine. People are nuts, just nuts flirting with possible disaster.
I want my vaccine so I can stop worrying and eventually caring about it at all.

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[highfigh]

So much evidence to the contrary ...

More sheep than cattle.

 

[Speedskater]

If you wait a year to talk about it, by the time a decision is reached it will be too late. It should be discussed before that point.

That's sort of like talking about how you are going to spend the money in next's month lottery.
The big issue now is getting the very limited availability vaccines to the people that want them.

 

[highfigh]

That's sort of like talking about how you are going to spend the money in next's month lottery.
The big issue now is getting the very limited availability vaccines to the people that want them.

You mean 'need the vaccine', right?

 

[NINaudio]

That's sort of like talking about how you are going to spend the money in next's month lottery.
The big issue now is getting the very limited availability vaccines to the people that want them.

Yes, let's compare winning the lottery to being prepared for what to do about vaccinations when we have enough of it to get it to everyone. Such very similar sets of circumstances.

 

[Hetfield]

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine should be approved very soon and that's the big game changer. It's 3 bucks a dose and transported at normal temperature. It's also produced in abundance. When that ramps up that will, I think, really knock this pandemic down.

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