Considering a new AVR

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would avoid refurbs at all costs. You have to hope that you would purchase a unit that was returned working. Modern AVRs are not really serviceable and you really don't want one that has been torn apart in any event. An even bigger issue is that many faults are intermittent. If the unit works on the test bench, which usually occurs more often than not, then the fault will be missed.

Basically a modern complex AVR with a fault in most cases is a dud and has no business being resold in any guise, but scrapped. The only ones resold should be guaranteed open box only and not mucked about.

I assume that @AcuDefTechGuy already reminded, but if he didn't I will - that refurb Denon only has a 1-year warranty, where open-box (like Amazon Warehouse) carries the same 3-year warranty same as the new models

 

[little wing]

Refurb hell, eh?

Yeah, If I can't afford new, I'm not buying it. This hobby is too important to me to spend good money on somebody else's headache. I know great deals can be had, and many refurbs turn out fine but...

 

[lovinthehd]

I assume that @AcuDefTechGuy already reminded, but if he didn't I will - that refurb Denon only has a 1-year warranty, where open-box (like Amazon Warehouse) carries the same 3-year warranty same as the new models

I've seen the three year warranty also offered on the refurbs for some D&M models now and then....

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I assume that @AcuDefTechGuy already reminded, but if he didn't I will - that refurb Denon only has a 1-year warranty, where open-box (like Amazon Warehouse) carries the same 3-year warranty same as the new models

That is correct. The only problem is a Denon warranty can be pretty much worthless if you have to use PanurgyOEM.

Denon will ask you to send it to PanurgyOEM if anything serious is wrong. It really doesn't matter if its one year or three if it comes back from warranty service with more problems than you originally sent it in for. Your unit can be at PanurgyOEM for months and they scratch it up and still don't fix it.

It usually costs the customer $90-110 for shipping to Denon and they want you to insure it. So when it comes back unusable and you have to send it back a 2nd time they act like they are doing you a favor covering the return shipping instead of sending a replacement on request.

If you want this kind of warranty - buy a Denon.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I've seen the three year warranty also offered on the refurbs for some D&M models now and then....

It's a 3rd party warranty promotion. Demon does not offer more than 1 year on any refurb.

 

[Kleinst]

Yeah, If I can't afford new, I'm not buying it. This hobby is too important to me to spend good money on somebody else's headache. I know great deals can be had, and many refurbs turn out fine but...

I would agree especially if the price difference is less than $200. Generally for used, I really don't want to go there unless 50% or more off MSRP. Otherwise new on sale is a great way to go.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's a 3rd party warranty promotion. Demon does not offer more than 1 year on any refurb.

Seem to remember an actual factory warranty on occasion...possibly a special promotion from D&M, dunno. The add on of a third party warranty usually isn't as good, tho....

 

[Teetertotter?]

You can try a factory reset on your current old AVR? It should be somewhere in the menu/settings.

 

[Kleinst]

Y

Seem to remember an actual factory warranty on occasion...possibly a special promotion from D&M, dunno. The add on of a third party warranty usually isn't as good, tho....

Yeah I've seen where they offer factory at times otherwise it's that third party. Anyone have experience dealing with them? Always wondered if that was worth it or just a waste of money (i.e. they would try to get out of paying for the repairs)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That is correct. The only problem is a Denon warranty can be pretty much worthless if you have to use PanurgyOEM.

...it comes back from warranty service with more problems than you originally sent it in for. Your unit can be at PanurgyOEM for months and they scratch it up and still don't fix it.

Yeah, I used to think, "It can't be any worse than it already is". But when it comes to Panurgy, yes, it CAN be absolutely WORSE than it already is.

1. If your AVR doesn't have Smoke coming out of it yet, it will have smoke when it comes back from Panurgy.

2. Your audio is shot, but your video still works. Not for long. When it comes back from Panurgy, both your Audio and Video will be shot to hell.

3. Your AVR still looks new. Not for long. When it comes back from Panurgy, it will have some scratches.

But hey, it's not Panurgy's fault. It's either FedEx's fault or UPS.

 

[lovinthehd]

Y


Yeah I've seen where they offer factory at times otherwise it's that third party. Anyone have experience dealing with them? Always wondered if that was worth it or just a waste of money (i.e. they would try to get out of paying for the repairs)

The terms I've read of at least one A4L offered were a sliding scale in value over time based....

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Y


Yeah I've seen where they offer factory at times otherwise it's that third party. Anyone have experience dealing with them? Always wondered if that was worth it or just a waste of money (i.e. they would try to get out of paying for the repairs)

I may find out for you. When I bought the 4500 off Amazon and it was shipped by A4L I purchased a 3 year warranty on Amazon. If I can't get the unit fixed by Denon I still have the ASURION 3 year warranty to pursue. It may be a waste of time too... but I'll see.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, I used to think, "It can't be any worse than it already is". But when it comes to Panurgy, yes, it CAN be absolutely WORSE than it already is.

1. If your AVR doesn't have Smoke coming out of it yet, it will have smoke when it comes back from Panurgy.

2. Your audio is shot, but your video still works. Not for long. When it comes back from Panurgy, both your Audio and Video will be shot to hell.

3. Your AVR still looks new. Not for long. When it comes back from Panurgy, it will have some scratches.

But hey, it's not Panurgy's fault. It's either FedEx's fault or UPS.

Maybe Sound United, perhaps in paying attention to Audioholics, might do something about this.....sure would be nice.....

 

[lovinthehd]

I may find out for you. When I bought the 4500 off Amazon and it was shipped by A4L I purchased a 3 year warranty on Amazon. If I can't get the unit fixed by Denon I still have the ASURION 3 year warranty to pursue. It may be a waste of time too... but I'll see.

So you didn't buy direct from A4L...interesting. You did get the basic one year factory warranty but purchased a three year extension?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

So you didn't buy direct from A4L...interesting. You did get the basic one year factory warranty but purchased a three year extension?

Yeah... when I bought I had no idea A4L existed. I just saw the deal on Amazon and it turned out it was sold by A4L. They offered the 3 year ASURION warranty on the same page. So I took it since it was listed as refurb.

Once I bought it I got a note from A4L that it shipped. I then went to their site and saw they offered a 3 year warranty with it. I asked if it would apply to my purchase and they said no you just get 1 year. lol

 

[Teetertotter?]

I'd buy new from BB or Crutchfield. Probably the Denon 2020 AVR S960H $649.00

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah... when I bought I had no idea A4L existed. I just saw the deal on Amazon and it turned out it was sold by A4L. They offered the 3 year ASURION warranty on the same page. So I took it since it was listed as refurb.

Once I bought it I got a note from A4L that it shipped. I then went to their site and saw they offered a 3 year warranty with it. I asked if it would apply to my purchase and they said no you just get 1 year. lol

I didn't even know they sold thru Amazon....but then these days that's more like who doesn't.....but dealing with them directly is what I've always done. They've been true to their terms and just a little beyond in my case.....

 

[Swerd]

Last night my B&K AVR took a turn for the worse. (Has it been reading this thread?) It kept cutting out while watching a Netflix show. It didn't switch Off, instead it said Please wait… … … I restarted it twice before I pulled the plug and declared it dead. It probably needs a total software re-install, and that's not going to happen. B&K closed in 2010 and is permanently offline.

Instead of waiting to find the best prices, I need to act now. I shortened my list to the Denon AVR-X3600H and the X4500H. The Yamaha models recommended here look good, but they are out of stock everywhere I looked. Taking advice from this thread, I'm buying a new AVR, avoiding a refurbed item.

Then it came down to analysis paralysis, the 3600 for $900 or the 4500 for $1200? I flipped a coin. Heads for the 4500, or tails for the 3600. It came up tails, and I was disappointed. So, there was my answer. Earlier today I ordered the 4500 plus a pair of 10 foot long HDMI 2.2 cables. I hope that's all I need, but you know how that goes.

Thanks everyone for all the good advice . For all those who didn't offer good advice, you may continue with the deceased equine flogging.

 

[little wing]

I would agree especially if the price difference is less than $200. Generally for used, I really don't want to go there unless 50% or more off MSRP. Otherwise new on sale is a great way to go.

Yeah, I few hundred dollars might be ok, but when you start talking about $400 or $500 for a refurb piece of gear that breaks...., that's gonna put me in a real salty mood.

 

[Kleinst]

Yeah, I few hundred dollars might be ok, but when you start talking about $400 or $500 for a refurb piece of gear that breaks...., that's gonna put me in a real salty mood.

Well that's what I mean. I was saying the savings vs. new if small, always buy new.... If DRAMATICALLY cheaper then used is ok. But if it's in any way close in price, buy new on sale

Especially receivers, I don't have any confidence that a receiver is going to last forever. Speakers, should last longer than I want them. Power AMPS seem to have a nicer life. But something about AVRs, they almost always have problems. I really don't know what the answer is as far as buying top of the line or buying middle of the road and just assume it's a 3 year purchase... We'll see I just bought a Denon 4700 for one set up and a Marantz 6013 for another in the past year new on sale and I'm damn sure hoping they last.. I'm feeling less and less confident about my 3 year warranty after reading this thread!!!