First time power amp buyer... now which receiver??

[lovinthehd]

@KEW - I think it depends on if you are using ECO mode. I was running ECO mode as my 4500 and 4700 were running hot after a short session. ECO reduced heat but also cut amp power by 50%. I can hear the difference between using the Denon in ECO mode vs using the Monolith 7X external amp at moderate listening levels (70db+).

I purchased the AC Infinity AIRCOM T10 to fight the heat issue but I could hear it's fans even at the lowest setting so I returned it. I'm going to try the AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 and see if it offers less noise.

Until Denon provides better cooling across its receiver line I see why an external amp might be a viable option for reducing heat. If you don't care about how hot the receiver gets then turn ECO OFF and use the internal amps. OR maybe you can find a fan setup that doesn't distract from the music/movie?

Finding quiet fans may depend on how low your noise floor is to begin with. I use a pair of fans with a speed controller from coolerguys on low speed that I don't hear in my living room setup; in my workshop I use one higher speed one that's noisier but out there it simply doesn't matter....fans are more due to the somewhat tight spaces the avrs are in...they don't run hot particularly in those locations...but with the fans they don't ever go beyond "cool". I don't have the Eco feature on either avr (older Denons). The newer one if I use all external amps, which I don't, I could turn off the amps in the avr, tho.

Is this possibly something akin to the DSP Delay in many subwoofers? A redundant approach to setting Distance/Delay where the subwoofer is "twice the distance" away?

Hard to believe normal delay management wouldn't suffice....especially if it only affects the LFE signal....

 

[Auditor55]

I decided to buy the Denon 4700 instead of the 4500. Figured that would be the newest technology and offer 125watts per channel. We will see how it turns out!


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I don't know much you paid for the 4700. However, just based on retail pricing, why spend the extra 500 dollars for the Denon 4700 over 4500? For example, what kind of TV do you have, do you have an 8K TV to take advantage of that capability? Even if you had an 8K TV, where's the content to take advantage of it? I just understand spending extra for features you don't even need or use. I think by the time 8K might be practical Denon will introduce new receivers (ie 4900) with useless, superfluous features.

 

[KEW]

Hard to believe normal delay management wouldn't suffice....especially if it only affects the LFE signal....

If you are talking the normal Delay/distance determined during the setup, this would not detect or correct for a delay inherent to the actual recording!

From Denon:

Bass Sync
For contents recorded in multi-channel such as Blu-ray discs, the recorded low frequency effects (LFE) may be out of synch and delayed. This function corrects such a delay of low frequency effects (LFE).

 

[lovinthehd]

If you are talking the normal Delay/distance determined during the setup, this would not detect or correct for a delay inherent to the actual recording!

From Denon:

LOL before first cup of coffee....was more riffing off Ryan's post rather than remembering the stated use in the 4500 manual....

 

[Auditor55]

I’ve had a couple people say that but the majority of them say the paradigm 100s need more power than just the receiver.


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This is why you come to the forum.

When to Add a Power Amplifier to an A/V Receiver

What benefit does a user get connecting an external power amplifier to their A/V Receiver? This article gives guidelines when it may be time to consider external amplification for your A/V system.

www.audioholics.com

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I don't know much you paid for the 4700. However, just based on retail pricing, why spend the extra 500 dollars for the Denon 4700 over 4500? For example, what kind of TV do you have, do you have an 8K TV to take advantage of that capability? Even if you had an 8K TV, where's the content to take advantage of it? I just understand spending extra for features you don't even need or use. I think by the time 8K might be practical Denon will introduce new receivers (ie 4900) with useless, superfluous features.

I was able to buy my Denon 4700 for 10% off and free shipping. That took it down to $1529 total. If you want a deal you have to ask. After my refurb experience with Accessories for Less I would never buy a refurb again. I shipped my 4500 back to Denon authorized service 33 days ago and it's still not fixed. I called two weeks ago and they said they were out of parts. NOT going that route again.

You can find the Denon 4500 on sale for $1199 as they are trying to get rid of the old models. But, personally I would rather have the 4700 for $300 more.

 

[Jleis14]

I don't know much you paid for the 4700. However, just based on retail pricing, why spend the extra 500 dollars for the Denon 4700 over 4500? For example, what kind of TV do you have, do you have an 8K TV to take advantage of that capability? Even if you had an 8K TV, where's the content to take advantage of it? I just understand spending extra for features you don't even need or use. I think by the time 8K might be practical Denon will introduce new receivers (ie 4900) with useless, superfluous features.

I got it for $1400 while the 4500 was $1200. Figured $200 more was worth it in my book.


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[Sax-Fan]

I got it for $1400 while the 4500 was $1200. Figured $200 more was worth it in my book.


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I am also in a situation where I am considering the 4500 vs 4700 (although I haven't completely settled on a Denon yet) and contemplating whether it is worth the additional $$ as well as whether there is enough of a difference to warrant going to the 4xxx series from the 3600 or 3700.

I don't anticipate using an external amp. As I only have a 5.1 system, I am however interested in seeing if the Atmos Height Virtualization is something I would like -- I have seen both positive reviews as well as some who believe it is just an unnecessary gimmick. In any event, that alone should probably not be the deciding factor.

I'm interested in hearing your experience with the receiver, the heat (which is the one thing really concerning me about Denon/Marantz) and where you wind up on the internal vs. external amp issue.

 

[Jleis14]

I am also in a situation where I am considering the 4500 vs 4700 (although I haven't completely settled on a Denon yet) and contemplating whether it is worth the additional $$ as well as whether there is enough of a difference to warrant going to the 4xxx series from the 3600 or 3700.

I don't anticipate using an external amp. As I only have a 5.1 system, I am however interested in seeing if the Atmos Height Virtualization is something I would like -- I have seen both positive reviews as well as some who believe it is just an unnecessary gimmick. In any event, that alone should probably not be the deciding factor.

I'm interested in hearing your experience with the receiver, the heat (which is the one thing really concerning me about Denon/Marantz) and where you wind up on the internal vs. external amp issue.

For sure man, I’ll try to remember to post my update once I get it in.


I ultimately was planning on the power amp but I liked the idea some said. Get the receiver and if I’m happy save myself $1,000. I honestly didn’t do much research on receivers. I’ve just heard Denon, marantz, Yamaha were all good. The Denon offers the most channels, watts, for the price.


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[VMPS-TIII]

I don't anticipate using an external amp. As I only have a 5.1 system, I am however interested in seeing if the Atmos Height Virtualization is something I would like -- I have seen both positive reviews as well as some who believe it is just an unnecessary gimmick. In any event, that alone should probably not be the deciding factor.

To me the Auro-3D setting sounds better than any other mode besides stereo. If the 3700 had that feature I would have purchased it instead of the 4700. The 4700 also has more settings for Auro-3D than the 4500. If you're using the Height channels you'll want to checkout Auro-3D. It's awesome.

 

[Bonscott]

Some here would say your blowing money on Emotiva amps, that the amps in the Denon are sufficient.

Yes. But the majority of all this Audio Video stuff is more want then need

 

[Auditor55]

Yes. But the majority of all this Audio Video stuff is more want then need

Yes, but you still shouldn't blow money on nothing. Many of those consumer electronics companies are doing just fine. They don't need free money from us.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, but you still shouldn't blow money on nothing. Many of those consumer electronics companies are doing just fine. They don't need free money from us.

Actually a lot of audio companies, particularly the high end stuff, rely on such dollars

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Yes, but you still shouldn't blow money on nothing. Many of those consumer electronics companies are doing just fine. They don't need free money from us.

If my top priority was saving money I would simply buy a pair of headphones and never read this forum again.

 

[mazersteven]

If my top priority was saving money I would simply buy a pair of headphones and never read this forum again.

O ya there's a way to save money, get into the Headphone world

HIFIMAN Shangri-La Tube Amplifier

HiFiMan Shangri-La Amplifier

www.moon-audio.com

 

[ryanosaur]

LOL before first cup of coffee....was more riffing off Ryan's post rather than remembering the stated use in the 4500 manual....

And I was just spitballin...
However, I wouldn't put it past some wierd snafu in the machinery to c0ck up the LFE output compared to the standard bass management. I have a more difficult time believing that the production of the recording is to blame. That isn't a new process. But perhaps Denon saw something happening in their own gear as BM and LFE are processed in the AVR... that a different delay was happening between the two?
*shrugs

 

[Auditor55]

Actually a lot of audio companies, particularly the high end stuff, rely on such dollars

They still exist?

 

[Auditor55]

If my top priority was saving money I would simply buy a pair of headphones and never read this forum again.

I'm not suggesting that you save money, just trying to discourage consumers from giving it away. Companies like Denon are international and profitable, they need monetary gifts and donations from consumers.

 

[lovinthehd]

They still exist?

Look around....still lots of audiophoolya out there...

 

[EthicalEar]

Emotiva XPA-3 is going in to my paradigm center and towers.

Denon 4500H for $1,200 vs Denon 2600H for $600

I have two SVS rear surround speakers along with two SVS PB-2000 pro subs.

From my little understanding of how all this works, since the front three pradigms are running through the emotiva, it would be the two rear SVS that are the only speakers running through the wattage and power from the Denon receiver. If that is correct, is an extra 30watts from the 4500H going to be worth $600 more over the 2600H?


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I would suggest trading that Emotiva for a used or new Anthem if you can find one.
For my main system in living room, I've got a pair of Paradigm 95F's as my mains, a CC590 as Center. Surrounds are Paradigm SE3's. Subs are a pair of SVS PB3000. I am using Sony STR-ZA5000 ES AVR (note had a STR-DA5800ES - protector mode issues and sound was not as clear, crisp and clean as the newer ZA Sony's flagship.) Anyway, my Pre-amp to power the 95Fs is Anthem PVA4 now discontinued. I have that 4 channel amp using to bi-amp the 95Fs. Sound is very clear and even. I heard the Anthem AV amps and they are very clean with power. They are probably the best choice to pair with the Dimes. Their room correction is the best but I don't use that, I prefer my ear instead. Due to this, I liked my Sony better with the Anthem pre-amp combo. Someday will get a better Anthem Pre-amp but for now all is as loud and clean as I need it. I have Klipsch Atmos up top, and other Klipsch behind couch rears to complete the 9.2 surround. But when I'm listening to Vinyl I like just pure direct from 95's through Sony to Anthem from Marantz TT15S1. Just so clear with plenty of bass power. I did find with Paradigm studio series they require bi-amp or more power to really make them sound the best. The cleaner the power, the better they sound. Not just more power. Switching to just the Denon would be good for you if you used extra channels to bi-amp them. Don't plug in more than 1 ethernet cable or your receiver is in danger of overheating from too many of those. (that is what killed my prior Sony) The new 95F's are way different than the Studio 100s. Treble is much better dispersed. Mids are better with synth and guitar in my opinion. Bass tightness is better but the aluminum sound is a bit different and takes getting used too. I would not switch my CC590 for the Prestige Center because it's working fine for TV voice or concert surround it does match well enough for me.