Unraveling of America? Is the decline of our "empire" a given at this point?

[GO-NAD!]

I voted for trump primarily because I believe our government is ripe with corruption and lack of accountability. I am tired of pooring my tax money in the drain. Our government is a joke and if any accountability were in place like the private sector most would not have jobs right now. I like the idea of a new person coming in and shaking it up. Overall trump has delivered on his campaign promises. Most would agree he has done well with the economy and with trade. The numbers show it. Some may not agree with his tactics but the numbers were good. I like the challenges and pushback on China, they are the biggest risk to our county. He has started the wall. Most are opposed but we need to do something. Nobody for almost 15 years had tried to tackle immigration. Everyone looks the other way. I think he is draining the swamp hence folks on both sides who don’t like him. I also like the fact he challenges the UN and WHO. We continue to pump money into what exactly.. why not invest that into our country.

In general he does say stupid things, does not always speak like a politician. But in general most know what his real intent is. Many time the media takes his statements out of context and just pushes the panic and drama buttons. It really doesn’t bother me. I can see past it.

As far as COVID goes, I think he has done a decent job. I am not confident somebody else would have done much better. We ventured into uncharted waters and we have plenty of Monday morning quarter backs out there. I don’t recall anybody in March, April and May providing any counterpoints, just bitching a lot. The only solution I hear is keep it locked down, that is not a solution and America will not tolerate it. So all in all death rates are a terrible reality, but still at or lower than most projections.

So I guess that sums it up. I am sure the scopes will be sited it and I will get a bunch of links to research and polls now.


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Thanks for your response. I'm not sure what he's done to address "corruption and lack of accountability" or to "draining the swamp". Can you expand on that. I'm genuinely curious.

I agree that there needs to be pushback against China, but we all - "the west" - rolled the dice decades ago on engaging economically with China, in hopes that it could lead to more democratization of that country. That has been an utter failure. We're addicted to their cheap products and it would be very difficult to stuff that genie back in the bottle.

That said, trade actions against China are costing US consumers more, so may be counterproductive. I could provide evidence to show how, but from your final statement, I doubt you're interested.

Regarding COVID response, yes, he takes a lot of flack, some of which he might not deserve. But, he doesn't do himself any favours when he pontificates about possible treatments, of which he knows no more than you or I, while denigrating the CDC, WHO, etc. We can't fairly saddle him with the entire US death count - there are far too many variables over which he has no control. And, there's no way to know what Hilary would have done in his place. However, he needed to lead by example and that didn't happen.

I don't want you to feel unwelcome here, but if you post arguments in favour of Trump, you should be prepared to defend them. I think we can all argue/discuss such issues and remain on good terms if we refrain from calling each other poo-poo heads.

 

[Alex2507]

I see you're taking Alex seriously. Big mistake.

Wait a minute.

Death rates and immigration are the two points I addressed.

The fact that the death rates are subject to admin spin before getting quantified qualifies them as pure bullshit. So that issue is at rest.

The idea that anybody can likely move to Canada is more pure bullshit. Go try it and then talk.

It is serious ... unless you don't care about the actual death rates and you don't need to be right about immigration law.

The Canadian Consulate is in Copley Place up in Boston's Back Bay. But they probably wouldn't let you past the door unless they had to because you carried a Canadian citizenship. What a time to say that 'anybody' can likely move there.

 

[Jeff R.]

Wait a minute.

The fact that the death rates are subject to admin spin before getting quantified qualifies them as pure bullshit. So that issue is at.

I would agree and I would say we have folks on both sides playing games with numbers. I actually don’t put a ton of stock in them.


As for Canada, I am not sure where we are going here. I have never looked into moving to Canada but made the assumption it was a process most could go down with success. It maybe slow but still successful.


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[highfigh]

That is interesting since corporation management and workforce is a pyramid shape, one at the top and increases going down. . Very few can climb ladders like when there is an opening or business expansion perhaps. So, it is not easy to climb the ladder, the room is narrow.

It's even harder when the workers don't have the needed skills to advance. Hell, some jobs are filled by people who don't have the skills to do basic jobs, but for some reason, they aren't fired. It's also hard to advance beyond middle management when the people in those positions have a mind filled with opinions and don't suck up to upper management. The ones who speak openly don't last long.

 

[Jeff R.]

Thanks for your response. I'm not sure what he's done to address "corruption and lack of accountability" or to "draining the swamp". Can you expand on that. I'm genuinely curious.

I agree that there needs to be pushback against China, but we all - "the west" - rolled the dice decades ago on engaging economically with China, in hopes that it could lead to more democratization of that country. That has been an utter failure. We're addicted to their cheap products and it would be very difficult to stuff that genie back in the bottle.

That said, trade actions against China are costing US consumers more, so may be counterproductive. I could provide evidence to show how, but from your final statement, I doubt you're interested.

Regarding COVID response, yes, he takes a lot of flack, some of which he might not deserve. But, he doesn't do himself any favours when he pontificates about possible treatments, of which he knows no more than you or I, while denigrating the CDC, WHO, etc. We can't fairly saddle him with the entire US death count - there are far too many variables over which he has no control. And, there's no way to know what Hilary would have done in his place. However, he needed to lead by example and that didn't happen.

I don't want you to feel unwelcome here, but if you post arguments in favour of Trump, you should be prepared to defend them. I think we can all argue/discuss such issues and remain on good terms if we refrain from calling each other poo-poo heads.

I would say that my comments on swamp and accountability is not something that can be easily measured so I probably don’t have a whole lot of concrete facts, but I believe it is happening. I’m not sure anybody expected a hard pivot. I’m not sure anybody can make a hard impact on such a large system in a short time. I think a part of his election was a shot across the bow of Washington that we are not happy with your performance. I think he is shifting the status quo and he generally approaches issues with a business or entrepreneurial mind set. He is not making every decision and action based on his political stock in the GOP. He knows most of the GOP want him to go back to his old life so they can go back theirs, they have to play nice to cover their re-election especially if they are from Trump support areas. I do think he is fighting for the American workers and bringing back some of the traditional jobs in American that help stabilize the middle class. Without these jobs the middle class will cease to exist.


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[Irvrobinson]

The idea that anybody can likely move to Canada is more pure bullshit. Go try it and then talk.

Actually, I do know something about moving to Canada. In the past I was being considered for a position in Waterloo, so I had to look into the entire process. I agree that not just anyone can move to Canada (you can't have serious pre-existing health conditions, for example), but for me it would have been easy. When I was very young I liked Canada so much I actually thought of emigrating, but now, I don't think so.

 

[diskreet]

I want to thank @Jeff R. for his posts with all the vauge points about why Trump is doing a good job. Especially around the pandemic. Up until now I was solely concerned with the health impacts of COVID-19; the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans, the immense risk to my young children's health and quality of life, the burnout of critical healthcare professionals, and so on.

I never thought of how it might mildly inconvenience him to live up to our patriotic duty to protect each other.

 

[Jeff R.]

Didn’t take long did it!!!


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[highfigh]

The death rates went even lower just as soon as the data got rerouted from the CDC to the White House.



So how would Rhode Island go about joining Canada?

I think they would need to roll it up and tuck it under their arm. Maybe two people would need to carry it.

 

[Jeff R.]

I want to thank @Jeff R. for his posts with all the vauge points about why Trump is doing a good job. Especially around the pandemic. Up until now I was solely concerned with the health impacts of COVID-19; the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans, the immense risk to my young children's health and quality of life, the burnout of critical healthcare professionals, and so on.

I never thought of how it might mildly inconvenience him to live up to our patriotic duty to protect each other.

Please explain your solution since you seem to know best for America.

I at no time mentioned I think we should not protect anyone and certainly don’t need to be labeled anti patriotic. I am simply saying I did not think the overall response was that bad and nobody had any real suggestions on how to do it better just a lot or rear looking observations. There was no playbook on this since it has not happened in 100 years. Just because your comfort level is not met does not mean others levels were not. I am saying my comfort level was met. Heck I have been traveling for work every week since early June. I have no concerns. I wear my mask and wash my hands as advised. I travel the “worst states”. GA, FL, AL TN, AR, SC I feel very comfortable and see folks following the rules in almost all instances. Based on my conversations with folks in those states their comfort levels are also met. Not saying I speak for all, but I have not heard concerns from the folks.

Oh and let’s not forget to mention all the Food Manufacturing / Supply chain companies that have all worked very hard to put food on everyone’s tables. Every single employee has had to take risks to themselves and their families for the rest of America. All these companies had to improvise and invest in new safety measures and precautions with in a moments notice to ensure the supple chain stayed full.


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[Jeff R.]

I think they would need to roll it up and tuck it under their arm. Maybe two people would need to carry it.

Can you tow it up there? You have done mighty large boat hauling equipment in the state.


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[GO-NAD!]

Actually, I do know something about moving to Canada. In the past I was being considered for a position in Waterloo, so I had to look into the entire process. I agree that not just anyone can move to Canada (you can't have serious pre-existing health conditions, for example), but for me it would have been easy. When I was very young I liked Canada so much I actually thought of emigrating, but now, I don't think so.

Was it something I said?

 

[highfigh]

Can you tow it up there? You have done mighty large boat hauling equipment in the state.


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[Irvrobinson]

Was it something I said?

No. Well, maybe... Actually, I grew up in Western NY, so I spent a lot of time in Canada as a teen and a college student. To this day Toronto is my favorite city in the world, and I've been to many in both hemispheres. Buffalo was such a dump, and so was NYC as far as I was concerned, as was the American side of Niagara Falls, and just crossing a bridge seemed like entering a different universe at the time. I was also younger and less aware of economics and politics than I am now, and I was drawn by the excitement of a vibrant city, rather than a state and a city in decline. I still like Canada a lot, and have been to several cities in it, but there's nothing quite like the US, warts and all. And except for possibly southern BC I can easily do without your weather.

 

[GO-NAD!]

No. Well, maybe... Actually, I grew up in Western NY, so I spent a lot of time in Canada as a teen and a college student. To this day Toronto is my favorite city in the world, and I've been to many in both hemispheres. Buffalo was such a dump, and so was NYC as far as I was concerned, as was the American side of Niagara Falls, and just crossing a bridge seemed like entering a different universe at the time. I was also younger and less aware of economics and politics than I am now, and I was drawn by the excitement of a vibrant city, rather than a state and a city in decline. I still like Canada a lot, and have been to several cities in it, but there's nothing quite like the US, warts and all. And except for possibly southern BC I can easily do without your weather.

I hear ya on the weather. However, I find it tolerable in the Maritimes. I have visited Toronto in the summer - absolutely brutal heat and humidity. And, unlike the prairies, it doesn't get so cold during the winter that your tires develop flat spots overnight. I love visiting other countries. I've been to several American cities and thoroughly enjoyed myself every time. But, as I think it is for most people, there's no place like home.

 

[Alex2507]

numbers. I actually don’t put a ton of stock in them.

So why did you bring them up to defend Trump?

I have never looked into moving to Canada but made the assumption

So why are you talking about it like you know?

Didn’t take long did it!!!

To call attention to the fact that you're defending Trump without believing what your saying and knowing what your talking about? I got on as quick as I could.

 

[Jeff R.]

So why did you bring them up to defend Trump?

So why are you talking about it like you know?

To call attention to the fact that you're defending Trump without believing what your saying and knowing what your talking about? I got on as quick as I could.

The numbers are all we have, you said yourself you don’t believe them either; so how then do you asses the success of Trump? I still believe they offer context to the situation. I personally think they are inflated. I would say many Covid deaths are tied to other serious health issues, Covid maybe be the straw that breaks the camels back in some cases. Even inflated they are not bad based on original predictions from back in March.

In my state for example. KY- total population lost in my state from Covid is 0.0245%. 1147 deaths, 58,501 positives and a population of 4.47MM. With a death rate of about 2% for those who tested positive. I consider that number to be pretty good. On top of that 76% of the deaths are over 75 years old. I am 43 and don’t worry if I get it. I will play the odds. How were we successful despite Trumps terrible leadership through this all. Did we get lucky?


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[Ponzio]

I personally think they are inflated.

And therein lies the problem.

Inflated or deflated, 205,000 deaths and counting in this country should not be acceptable, compared to the rest of the world.

He's playing with our lives and you seem to be OK with it because you like your odds.

Beam me up Scotty!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm gonna vote Democrat this year just to see if sleepy Joe falls asleep in the Oval office or at one of his staff meetings. ...

And, if he does, are you going to start a drive to recall him?
But, I bet, he will read all the intelligence reports every day. Then, he may fall asleep.

 

[John Parks]

The numbers are all we have, you said yourself you don’t believe them either; so how then do you asses the success of Trump? I still believe they offer context to the situation. I personally think they are inflated. I would say many Covid deaths are tied to other serious health issues, Covid maybe be the straw that breaks the camels back in some cases. Even inflated they are not bad based on original predictions from back in March.

In my state for example. KY- total population lost in my state from Covid is 0.0245%. 1147 deaths, 58,501 positives and a population of 4.47MM. With a death rate of about 2% for those who tested positive. I consider that number to be pretty good. On top of that 76% of the deaths are over 75 years old. I am 43 and don’t worry if I get it. I will play the odds. How were we successful despite Trumps terrible leadership through this all. Did we get lucky?


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Well said and the CDC agrees: