A safe place to share blood loss

[highfigh]

I recently put a driver bit through my thumb nail when the drill slipped out of the screw!

That hurt like a Mofo!

It was one of those where you "know" that you are fine, no need for anything beyond first aid, you are just paying the stupid tax. That set my DIY work back by a week, and reminded me to be more careful!

And I had a good week of grossing out the wifey

I have metal shavings that come out of my left index finger from the same thing- it's one of the reasons I think Phillips screws should go away. That happened in 1997.

 

[KEW]

I have metal shavings that come out of my left index finger from the same thing- it's one of the reasons I think Phillips screws should go away. That happened in 1997.

The Philips screw became prominent due to its ease of use in automated assembly processes.
It is self-centering, so as long as the driver has a little play in the tip, it will work well.
The frustrations for manual are it can "cam out" of it's grooves, and can also machine the grooves out of the screw head (probably where Slippery's metal filings came from), and, of course, it is "pointy"!
I think with today's machinery, Robertson and Torx screws perform fine in automated assembly operations and they pretty much eliminate the disadvantages for manual operations as well.
Also, there is one that is like a Philips head with a square drive in the center which also mostly eliminates the problems of plain Phillips heads. I forget the name, but they are often used for deck screws.
So, to your point, Phillips really is a dead technology. We just need to figure out how to get screw makers to change their tooling - or designers to quit specifying Phillips for their screws.

 

[highfigh]

The Philips screw became prominent due to its ease of use in automated assembly processes.
It is self-centering, so as long as the driver has a little play in the tip, it will work well.
The frustrations for manual are it can "cam out" of it's grooves, and can also machine the grooves out of the screw head (probably where Slippery's metal filings came from), and, of course, it is "pointy"!
I think with today's machinery, Robertson and Torx screws perform fine in automated assembly operations and they pretty much eliminate the disadvantages for manual operations as well.
Also, there is one that is like a Philips head with a square drive in the center which also mostly eliminates the problems of plain Phillips heads. I forget the name, but they are often used for deck screws.
So, to your point, Phillips really is a dead technology. We just need to figure out how to get screw makers to change their tooling - or designers to quit specifying Phillips for their screws.

Square drive and Torx are probably the best choices at this time but even those can be messed up if the bit is worn- that, obviously needs to be addressed by the user.

I don't like any kind of slotted screw and I'm really not a fan of Phillips, although it has advantages over slotted, as you mentioned. The combination head only eliminates the problems if a square drive tip is used- if not, it's still a Phillips screw. Allen wrenches work as well as anything and with the ball end, being off-axis isn't a problem.

 

[slipperybidness]

Square drive and Torx are probably the best choices at this time but even those can be messed up if the bit is worn- that, obviously needs to be addressed by the user.

I don't like any kind of slotted screw and I'm really not a fan of Phillips, although it has advantages over slotted, as you mentioned. The combination head only eliminates the problems if a square drive tip is used- if not, it's still a Phillips screw. Allen wrenches work as well as anything and with the ball end, being off-axis isn't a problem.

I'm a pretty big fan of Torx. The only "problem" is that Torx tools are less common.

I also like Allen/Hex heads....but what I don't like is that they come in both metric and SAE varieties, so sometimes it is difficult to know if you really have the correct tool, or if you have a tool that is close enough to work but may strip the head when you start torquing it.

 

[Alex2507]

That hurt like a Mofo!

Oh why did you have to remind me?

there is one that is like a Philips head

Pozidriv?

 

[highfigh]

I'm a pretty big fan of Torx. The only "problem" is that Torx tools are less common.

I also like Allen/Hex heads....but what I don't like is that they come in both metric and SAE varieties, so sometimes it is difficult to know if you really have the correct tool, or if you have a tool that is close enough to work but may strip the head when you start torquing it.

Why are they less common? Go to any hardware store and buy them.

Nobody should attempt to use a tool that doesn't fit.

 

[highfigh]

Oh why did you have to remind me?



Pozidriv?

Kind of- looks like it uses a square drive, but the correct bit just has extra contact area, which really doesn't fully address camming.

 

[slipperybidness]

Why are they less common? Go to any hardware store and buy them.

Nobody should attempt to use a tool that doesn't fit.

What I mean is....go open anybodies general toolbox and see how many straight or phillips tools you find vs. how many Torx tools you find!

Even my personal tools, I have very few torx drivers, and multiples of hex, phillips, straight, etc.

 

[highfigh]

What I mean is....go open anybodies general toolbox and see how many straight or phillips tools you find vs. how many Torx tools you find!

Even my personal tools, I have very few torx drivers, and multiples of hex, phillips, straight, etc.

I think that depends on whether they were actually taught about tools/fasteners when young, or if they decided to become weekend warriors on their own. Some people will buy a full set because they can without knowing how to use most of it, and some want to make do with the bare minimum. Some have worked with a wide variety of tools over time and there are some who become tool junkies.

I would recommend that if someone needs one driver, they should just buy a small set because they'll probably need some of the extras, at some point. Saving a trip in the middle of building something from Ikea is a good thing.

 

[slipperybidness]

I think that depends on whether they were actually taught about tools/fasteners when young, or if they decided to become weekend warriors on their own. Some people will buy a full set because they can without knowing how to use most of it, and some want to make do with the bare minimum. Some have worked with a wide variety of tools over time and there are some who become tool junkies.

I would recommend that if someone needs one driver, they should just buy a small set because they'll probably need some of the extras, at some point. Saving a trip in the middle of building something from Ikea is a good thing.

Full sets turn out to be cheaper per tool too.

Related words of wisdom--Only a rich man can afford cheap tools!

 

[KEW]

I think that depends on whether they were actually taught about tools/fasteners when young, or if they decided to become weekend warriors on their own. Some people will buy a full set because they can without knowing how to use most of it, and some want to make do with the bare minimum. Some have worked with a wide variety of tools over time and there are some who become tool junkies.

I would recommend that if someone needs one driver, they should just buy a small set because they'll probably need some of the extras, at some point. Saving a trip in the middle of building something from Ikea is a good thing.

I am a big fan of buying sets with the stipulation that they include a case that makes organization easy!

For example, this is one of the best $20 I have spent on tools (unfortunately no longer available), it is pricey compared to the "17 drivers for $9.99" holiday sales you will see at Lowe's/HD, but once I hung it on my wall, I have always been able to quickly find the driver I need when I need it and I find having such an organizer for my tools helps my clutter prone self put things back where they belong - every time I walk by it and there is an empty pocket, I am reminded to make it whole again!
The description looked good (C-V steel, etc), but they were a Prime order so I had an easy return if the quality did not prove out - it has!

Amazon.com: KSEIBI 153635 Slotted and Phillips Screwdriver Set with Storage Rack 6 Piece Organized Screwdriver Kit: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: KSEIBI 153635 Slotted and Phillips Screwdriver Set with Storage Rack 6 Piece Organized Screwdriver Kit: Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

For the same reasons, this is my socket set (Stanley):

 

[lovinthehd]

The ones I showed aren't crimped on, the gold end screws in and tightens against the wire and as I posted, the wire enters the hole on the side- the photo is wrong but it's the same plug I use. That photo wasn't from Parts Express, the seller I use.

That tightening of the body against the wire without set screws is what I mean by a crimp style, maybe that's not the right name altho I've seen it used before. I've used such where you can use the side or ends for wire entry, too. Does yours somehow also have set screws?

 

[highfigh]

That tightening of the body against the wire without set screws is what I mean by a crimp style, maybe that's not the right name altho I've seen it used before. I've used such where you can use the side or ends for wire entry, too. Does yours somehow also have set screws?

No set screws- I don't like making adjustments to my fingers anymore than the OP.

I have some of the kind with set screws, but they're old and I don't use them- just keep them in case I need them (as if that will happen). I also have some of the really old black Bakelite double plugs on my bench, which I like because they make shorting + and - impossible. Unfortunately, they can't be used with wire that's heavier than 16 ga.

 

[highfigh]

I am a big fan of buying sets with the stipulation that they include a case that makes organization easy!

For example, this is one of the best $20 I have spent on tools (unfortunately no longer available), it is pricey compared to the "17 drivers for $9.99" holiday sales you will see at Lowe's/HD, but once I hung it on my wall, I have always been able to quickly find the driver I need when I need it and I find having such an organizer for my tools helps my clutter prone self put things back where they belong - every time I walk by it and there is an empty pocket, I am reminded to make it whole again!
The description looked good (C-V steel, etc), but they were a Prime order so I had an easy return if the quality did not prove out - it has!

For the same reasons, this is my socket set (Stanley):

For portability when I need a small number of tools, sets are good (I only have one set of wrenches in a plastic case) but they sets also mean that some of the cost is for things that may never be used and those cases take up a lot of space. I have two Craftsman rolling cabinets, a SnapOn upper, several plastic Plano tool boxes and a Husky tool bag- the bag has what I need for doing a lot of the AV work without needing to make several trips to the van (and it's heavy enough) but I also have power tools that do stay in their cases because of the power cords, blades/bits, etc. The trick when using a cart or tool box is in how the tools are organized whether by the job, or type of tool. I have automotive specialty tools in one place, general use tools in their own drawers (screwdrivers, pliers, wire strippers/crimpers, sockets/extensions/ratchets in another and box/open end/combo and adjustable wrenches in another) and many other tools, but I have used them for different kinds of employment, so it's not the same as keeping everything at home & in their own permanent places. Then, there's all of my woodworking tools........

 

[highfigh]

Full sets turn out to be cheaper per tool too.

Related words of wisdom--Only a rich man can afford cheap tools!

Tell that to someone with a truck account for SnapOn, MAC, Matco, Cornwell, etc. I doubt any of them have thought about the cost of their tools, but they only pay a small amount each week, so it's affordable. Some of the guys I have worked with had close to $10K just in their tool box.

 

[slipperybidness]

For portability when I need a small number of tools, sets are good (I only have one set of wrenches in a plastic case) but they sets also mean that some of the cost is for things that may never be used and those cases take up a lot of space. I have two Craftsman rolling cabinets, a SnapOn upper, several plastic Plano tool boxes and a Husky tool bag- the bag has what I need for doing a lot of the AV work without needing to make several trips to the van (and it's heavy enough) but I also have power tools that do stay in their cases because of the power cords, blades/bits, etc. The trick when using a cart or tool box is in how the tools are organized whether by the job, or type of tool. I have automotive specialty tools in one place, general use tools in their own drawers (screwdrivers, pliers, wire strippers/crimpers, sockets/extensions/ratchets in another and box/open end/combo and adjustable wrenches in another) and many other tools, but I have used them for different kinds of employment, so it's not the same as keeping everything at home & in their own permanent places. Then, there's all of my woodworking tools........

I have my general tools in the garage in a rolling toolbox, a set of emergency tools in the truck, a toolbox dedicated to electronics work, a toolbox dedicated to bicycle work, and a toolbox dedicated to obsolete tech! Then a tupperware that is nothing but adhesives, a tupperware that is nothing but tapes, a tupperware that is nothing but AV cables, etc.

 

[slipperybidness]

Tell that to someone with a truck account for SnapOn, MAC, Matco, Cornwell, etc. I doubt any of them have thought about the cost of their tools, but they only pay a small amount each week, so it's affordable. Some of the guys I have worked with had close to $10K just in their tool box.

I had a neighbor that has done work on many of my vehicles, certified mechanic. I have seen his SnapOn toolbox in the garage, and likely the cost of his tools was approaching the cost of his house!

BUT.....SnapOn!

 

[KEW]

That tightening of the body against the wire without set screws is what I mean by a crimp style, maybe that's not the right name altho I've seen it used before. I've used such where you can use the side or ends for wire entry, too. Does yours somehow also have set screws?

I think these are the type you are talking about. Crimp is not really the right term, generally a crimp connection uses a crimping tool to bend/pinch the metal to capture the wire!

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[lovinthehd]

I think these are the type you are talking about. Crimp is not really the right term, generally a crimp connection uses a crimping tool to bend/pinch the metal to capture the wire!

Amazon.com: Sewell SW-29863-12 Deadbolt Banana Plugs 12-Pairs by, Gold Plated Speaker Plugs, Quick Connect: Home Audio & Theater

Buy Sewell SW-29863-12 Deadbolt Banana Plugs 12-Pairs by, Gold Plated Speaker Plugs, Quick Connect: Electronics - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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Then I've just in the past found crimp as a description, and it fits since it self crimps/holds the wire in place. I'm not alone https://www.crutchfield.com/p_120CSBAN3/Metra-ethereal-Self-crimping-Banana-Connectors.html Anyways, I find them less reliable at holding wire than set screws....

 

[KEW]

For portability when I need a small number of tools, sets are good (I only have one set of wrenches in a plastic case) but they sets also mean that some of the cost is for things that may never be used and those cases take up a lot of space. I have two Craftsman rolling cabinets, a SnapOn upper, several plastic Plano tool boxes and a Husky tool bag- the bag has what I need for doing a lot of the AV work without needing to make several trips to the van (and it's heavy enough) but I also have power tools that do stay in their cases because of the power cords, blades/bits, etc. The trick when using a cart or tool box is in how the tools are organized whether by the job, or type of tool. I have automotive specialty tools in one place, general use tools in their own drawers (screwdrivers, pliers, wire strippers/crimpers, sockets/extensions/ratchets in another and box/open end/combo and adjustable wrenches in another) and many other tools, but I have used them for different kinds of employment, so it's not the same as keeping everything at home & in their own permanent places. Then, there's all of my woodworking tools........

Good points!
I am at a point where my tool use is usually at home (or at a friend's house) where I will grab a tool bag and "kit it" for the specific task at hand.
One of the best things I did was buy sheets of business card blanks (for use with printer) and the business card magnetic sheets (adhesive on one side) like businesses send you in the hopes you will stick their cards on your fridge. These fit perfectly on the fronts of the drawers of my tool cabinets and I can easily shift them around when/if I reorganize my tools!