Am I throwing good money away?

[johnner1999]

Now that I have your attention lol. Kidding come on AVR gear is fun and worth it.

okay I have a Yamaha a680 Aventage avr with a set of new klipsch RP-8000f fronts and 504c center and their surround rears with dual 4s. And a sun fire 10” sun with passive radiator. They sound great overall and don’t regret buying them, not even really bright like I thought they’d be. But I assume the mid bass and bass is lacking due to the lower end mid grade AVR. Which seems to have issues with fullness.

Not looking for louder per say... not gut wrenching bass not at all. but a more full rich sound... yes that’s what I want. Nothing scientific but even during the semi infamous launch scene in Interstellar... the four eights in the fronts hardly move ha.

I’m planning on buying a brand new marantz 7013, from a local dealer non refurbished for about 13.... which for me is a decent amount of money and I’m having 2nd thoughts. But love the brand and think it’ll pair nicely with my speakers. And should be a long term keeper. Was looking at (don’t laugh) a Sony ES 1100 which I can get for about 8. Or was looking at a refurbished 4500h Denon which I guess is same as the 7013... for one bill - but then I’m like for a few hundred more get a brand new gorgeous marantz (which I’ve always wanted... I know it’s no longer the old marantz that I probably fell in love with but hey....)

so I am just looking for some good opinions here. I don’t want separates nor another Yamaha though I do like the bigger models of mine like 1080 or even 2080 which A4L has refurbished ones under or near a bill — but I feel bitten by Yamaha and that I paid full price for mine about 2 years ago.

hopefully this post is acceptable here.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Buying a new AVR would be throwing money away.

But I assume the mid bass and bass is lacking due to the lower end mid grade AVR. Which seems to have issues with fullness.

- You assume incorrectly.

what you REALLY need a new sub(s) - HSU is my first brand to go (due to one of the best values/performance).
SVS, Monoprice THX Ultra, Rhythmic, and PSA won't be bad choices either.

 

[johnner1999]

Buying a new AVR would be throwing money away.
- You assume incorrectly.

what you REALLY need a new sub(s) - HSU is my first brand to go (due to one of the best values/performance).
SVS, Monoprice THX Ultra, Rhythmic, and PSA won't be bad choices either.

I’ve tried a couple subs and yes they produced better impact but only in the sun bass end (naturally) I tried the matching spls klipsche 12” and a Martin Logan. Retuned them as I didn’t need nor want wall shaking effects.

 

[Ponzio]

Was the Yamaha a680 Aventage avr refurbished?

I've owned Yammy's for most of my life ... I like their tonal quality and reliability ... and currently own 4 Yammy AVR's in different rooms, from a RX-A830 to a RX-A3070 and I've yet to have one fail or act up.

You might want to replace the Sunfire sub to a SVS model or other more accurate sub brands like HSU, RBH, etc.

 

[johnner1999]

One thing to add. I do enjoy how my Yamaha does allow for a tighter and more pleasant vocal experience while watching movies. Doesn’t get drowned out. Maybe it’s more of my center being a bit of a baller ha.

 

[mazersteven]

Sony - No

Your Sub is a Weak link in the Chain

Are you sure your speakers are set up Properly? Placement, Crossover?

 

[johnner1999]

Was the Yamaha a680 Aventage avr refurbished?

I've owned Yammy's for most of my life ... I like their tonal quality and reliability ... and currently own 4 Yammy AVR's in different rooms, from a RX-A830 to a RX-A3070 and I've yet to have one fail or act up.

You might want to replace the Sunfire sub to a SVS model or other more accurate sub brands like HSU, RBH, etc.

brand new - bought it the first month or two it was available. It works the same as it always has. I’ve read reviews of the 680 and it’s lower models having problems playing mid and lower bass levels. Tweaking the EQ or pure mode does improve.

 

[johnner1999]

Sony - No

Your Sub is a Weak link in the Chain

Are you sure your speakers are set up Properly? Placement, Crossover?

yeah I agree it’s not the best sub. Though it is tight and does what I need. I actually prefer no sub which is why I went with the bigger 8000f and 504c for my front stage.
Thank you and appreciate your time

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I’ve tried a couple subs and yes they produced better impact but only in the sun bass end (naturally) I tried the matching spls klipsche 12” and a Martin Logan. Retuned them as I didn’t need nor want wall shaking effects.

Neither of these great subs, This has nothing to do with wall shacking, but have sub play bass accurately and extended well into mid-bass but still ruler flat.
Get an SVS sub (like PB4000) with 30 days home trial and experiment with a crossover point at 90 or 100hz

 

[Ponzio]

brand new - bought it the first month or two it was available. It works the same as it always has. I’ve read reviews of the 680 and it’s lower models having problems playing mid and lower bass levels. Tweaking the EQ or pure mode does improve.

I run mine in 'Straight' mode for music, after I run YPAO and tweak it, and it's spot on.

That's bull about their lower models & sub's. The AVR is just passing along the signal you setup in YPAO and the sub takes it from there. Of course the amount of wattage from the AVR to the sub makes a huge difference too, so ...

You may need more juice, like 110W +

 

[Ponzio]

Just mentioned this to another poster here and may help you in pinpointing your perceived problem, the amount of wattage/power of the AVR or the sub/speakers.

Run YPAO 3, 4 or 5 times, tweak the setup settings to your preferences by accessing your home LAN (local area network) web browsers GUI settings. Much more detailed than accessing your TV/monitor setup.

Example: http://192.168.1.247/setup

 

[johnner1999]

Just mentioned this to another poster here and may help you in pinpointing your perceived problem, the amount of wattage/power of the AVR or the sub/speakers.

Run YPAO 3, 4 or 5 times, tweak the setup settings to your preferences by accessing your home LAN (local area network) web browsers GUI settings. Much more detailed than accessing your TV/monitor.

Example: http://192.168.1.247/setup

Thanks I’ll try that rerunning the setup does tend to fluctuate the “sound” per the screen.

yeah straight mode does help music. Not here to critique music choices ha. But when I play some Eagles or Don Henley or even some random jazz the tow towers impress the hell out of me. Great sound stage and hits pretty good. But nowhere near as good as the store. But they were using I think an upper end denon or marantz unit. Said these speakers are super sensitive and don’t need much power BUT can and do enjoy power ha.

I don’t really think a better sub is gonna do too much. I typically don’t even use it. I know I’m wrong but for some reason full range towers do more for me. I have it for decent LFE in movies which it seems to do. Maybe I’ll pick up an SVS at bestbuy to try it. But I’ve tried others and didn’t help. Hmmm maybe I’m being rude hopefully not.

And I’m not anti Yamaha, mine sounds “great” but lacking . Maybe it’s my main speakers - but don’t want to even think of replacing them.

 

[mazersteven]

But nowhere near as good as the store. But they were using I think an upper end denon or marantz unit.

The AVR is NOT effecting the sound. The Room and Placement is

 

[lovinthehd]

That the store had a different room would likely be the greater difference rather than the avr unless the store tweaked the avr's dsp to enhance performance....the difference between your avr's 80wpc (2ch rating) and say an avr with 120wpc is only 1.8 dB spl. If you're using eq boost that can increase amp demands, as can lower impedance speakers driven to high volume. If loud is a big goal then maybe a significant power amp is something you might experiment with....and if you do get a new avr you might get one with pre-outs to give you amp flexibility.

Similarly it could simply be your placement of speakers and integration of sub in your room that isn't performing up to snuff. What size room do you have? How's everything setup in the avr....using YPAO, speakers all set to small to maximize the sub, crossovers, etc. Still, the sub in your case may not be the biggest thing since it sounds like you pregfer the bass somewhat above sub range, too. Tweaking what you have is free and better than throwing money at it....

 

[johnner1999]

That the store had a different room would likely be the greater difference rather than the avr unless the store tweaked the avr's dsp to enhance performance....the difference between your avr's 80wpc (2ch rating) and say an avr with 120wpc is only 1.8 dB spl. If you're using eq boost that can increase amp demands, as can lower impedance speakers driven to high volume. If loud is a big goal then maybe a significant power amp is something you might experiment with....and if you do get a new avr you might get one with pre-outs to give you amp flexibility.

Similarly it could simply be your placement of speakers and integration of sub in your room that isn't performing up to snuff. What size room do you have? How's everything setup in the avr....using YPAO, speakers all set to small to maximize the sub, crossovers, etc. Still, the sub in your case may not be the biggest thing since it sounds like you pregfer the bass somewhat above sub range, too. Tweaking what you have is free and better than throwing money at it....

Yeah I’ve done all that ha.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well you could definitely be using a worse subwoofer for sure, but it’s still the first piece of equipment I would change in your setup. How big is the room? My hunch is that there’s an integration “thing” going on, but part of it could be room size. Sunfires are ok, but won’t punch you through the back of your seat. The midbass/bass weakness your describing could be due to being on concrete, and/or a large room. It could be a XO null too. The only way to know for sure is to measure the FR, or at least use an spl meter and change XO points, or add distance to the sub in the AVR.
I say new sub, and better integration.

 

[Pogre]

I’ve tried a couple subs and yes they produced better impact but only in the sun bass end (naturally) I tried the matching spls klipsche 12” and a Martin Logan. Retuned them as I didn’t need nor want wall shaking effects.

Well I'm piling on with the rest to say your weakest link is that sub. If you get a good sub and integrate it properly it won't shake the walls unless you want it to. I have a pair of 15" subs and with music the only time they draw attention to themselves is when I turn them off. They're there to add depth, detail and texture, not blow my windows out. A good sub, properly integrated does more than shake the walls and add bass. Good, clean bass has a way of cleaning up the whole range from top to bottom.

A better sub will offer more improvements than a lateral move like buying a new receiver or amp. In other words, you'd be throwing good money away.

 

[Pogre]

Well you could definitely be using a worse subwoofer for sure, but it’s still the first piece of equipment I would change in your setup. How big is the room? My hunch is that there’s an integration “thing” going on, but part of it could be room size. Sunfires are ok, but won’t punch you through the back of your seat. The midbass/bass weakness your describing could be due to being on concrete, and/or a large room. It could be a XO null too. The only way to know for sure is to measure the FR, or at least use an spl meter and change XO points, or add distance to the sub in the AVR.
I say new sub, and better integration.

I just mirrored your post, ha ha!

Yes, I suspect an integration issue as well. What crossover are you using, and how did you set it all up?

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah I’ve done all that ha.

Yeah, but what particularly are the details?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I just mirrored your post, ha ha!

Yes, I suspect an integration issue as well. What crossover are you using, and how did you set it all up?

Great minds brother!
I see HD is going down the same path.