Guns at Protests?

[Trell]

I think you may have replied to the wrong person

I was referring to the person @adk highlander replied to, though I see that I was unclear. I'll edit my post.

 

[highfigh]

You just love your straw man. If you become a police officer this is what you must learn to deal with. WTF. As far as I am aware we have been discussing the shooting of UNARMED people. You just go on defending these people while saying you are not defending them. Have fun with that.

I'm not defending the shooting of unarmed people unless they present a definite threat and if you don't think an unarmed person can kill, you're ignoring reality. I'm not seeing that Blake was a serious threat, unless the keys were in the ignition of the car and his intention was to injure the officers- beyond that, it's hard to be dangerous when facing away from the people who are chasing even with a knife, which from what I have seen and read, was inside of the car.

 

[highfigh]

What I, you or anyone else would do doesn’t matter; we’re not police officers. That’s a loaded question for a majority of folks here.

I have a neighbor, six houses away, who is a sergeant in my local police department and we’ve had these discussions. Full disclosure; my son and son-in-law are in law enforcement too.

It’s a tough job, nobody disputes that. It takes a certain kind of person to do it and it’s why they’re paid so well and have generous benefits.

He told me once about a domestic incident, where I blurted out afterwards, ‘I’d of bashed the guy’s brain in’.

His reply? And I’m paraphrasing, ‘That’s why you would never make a good cop and you’d be fired. The badge doesn’t give you the right to do whatever you please or beat somebody up because he hurt your feelings. It’s just not allowed and shouldn’t be. If your ego can’t take it, go get a day job at Costco’s. Now if you’re attacked physically, that’s another kettle of fish. It has to be proportional and that’s why its mandatory that they keep on their body-cam and patrol car-cam’s on at all times, so both the cop and the community are protected’.

Having said that, he also pointed out that the community needs to shoulder some of the blame too for shutting down public mental health facilities and other social programs, especially for kids and teenagers in the poorer areas of the community; they expect cops to be psychiatrists, babysitters and whatnot. It’s just not realistic.

The job is not easy and will never be but the community has the right to demand that they be treated fairly and equally regardless of race or social standing.

I know of some places where starting pay for officers is $32K- I wouldn't exactly call that 'paid well'. However, they have less crime than larger cities, so the risk isn't as great but the problem for them is that criminals travel to do what they do, so there's no guarantee that something major won't happen.

IIRC, many mental health facilities and programs ended during Reagan but they do exist. The stigma about mental health problems is still too strong for people to go for help on a mass level. I was listening to the police scanner app last night and a call for shots fired came in- someone heard four shots, then someone called in about one more, a few minutes later. The last one was when the shooter committed suicide.

Expecting cops to be what you mentioned may not be realistic, but that's the way it has been for a long time.

I don't know how old you are, but decades ago, people wouldn't have though about doing many of the things we hear about on a daily basis. Now, we don't blink when they happen. Hell and damn raised a ruckus when said on TV and now, we can watch people being shot or blown up on the internet.

That's progress?

 

[highfigh]

In his world there are two categories of people: Those that are ARMED and those REACHING FOR ARMS. Either way, the police is always justified in their actions.

Edit: I had @highfigh post in mind that you replied to. Sorry for the confusion I caused.

Not necessarily armed. Some people are bad and others aren't. How would you describe people who intentionally harm others?

No, the Police are not always justified in their actions. Far from it.

 

[Ponzio]

I don't know how old you are, but decades ago, people wouldn't have though about doing many of the things we hear about on a daily basis. Now, we don't blink when they happen. Hell and damn raised a ruckus when said on TV and now, we can watch people being shot or blown up on the internet.

That's progress?

I’m 65 … I’ve been around the block a couple of times.

The crime stats in the US since 1960 beg to differ; they’ve actually gone down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

This has also been confirmed by the cop up the street and my son & son-in-law. The amount of what they call ‘nuisance’ calls has skyrocketed, especially among the elderly, in the last 15/20 years. We’ve got grandma scared $hitless.

So why are people, especially the elderly, so afraid? Because crime sells and draws eyeballs; just like bad weather. If you watch the news regularly it’s the end of the world every day.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t watch the news on TV. Just watching my wife scream at the TV is proof enough for me that it’s dangerous to your health. I’ve limited myself to an hour a day, reading the news on the internet (AP, Reuter’s news wires) before they start making sausage out of it (NY Times, WP, etc.).

Think about it, before CNN came on the scene most people only watched the evening news. Now its 24/7 and the number of news organizations has exploded. Not only on TV but now we have the internet to scare the bejesuses out you too even further.

Which brings up another issue, the fear mongering directed towards senior citizens by the media. They call it content.

The more they can scare you, the richer they get.

Why do you think the 'Pillow Guy' is so rich? Because of his velvety soft pillows?

So yes, progress has been made, but you wouldn’t know it from reading/watching the news.

 

[highfigh]

I’m 65 … I’ve been around the block a couple of times.

The crime stats in the US since 1960 beg to differ; they’ve actually gone down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

This has also been confirmed by the cop up the street and my son & son-in-law. The amount of what they call ‘nuisance’ calls has skyrocketed, especially among the elderly, in the last 15/20 years. We’ve got grandma scared $hitless.

So why are people, especially the elderly, so afraid? Because crime sells and draws eyeballs; just like bad weather. If you watch the news regularly it’s the end of the world every day.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t watch the news on TV. Just watching my wife scream at the TV is proof enough for me that it’s dangerous to your health. I’ve limited myself to an hour a day, reading the news on the internet (AP, Reuter’s news wires) before they start making sausage out of it (NY Times, WP, etc.).

Think about it, before CNN came on the scene most people only watched the evening news. Now its 24/7 and the number of news organizations has exploded. Not only on TV but now we have the internet to scare the bejesuses out you too even further.

Which brings up another issue, the fear mongering directed towards senior citizens by the media. They call it content.

The more they can scare you, the richer they get.

Why do you think the 'Pillow Guy' is so rich? Because of his velvety soft pillows?

So yes, progress has been made, but you wouldn’t know it from reading/watching the news.

Crime stats have indeed gone down, in some categories but the speed with which crimes are reported is blazing fast and it doesn't go away, unlike the time before the internet. Also, the way the media pound it into our collective head makes it impossible to get away from it. I usually read the FBI stat but try to find alternative sources, too.

However, crime has spread farther from the cities and that means it directly affects more people than ever. I heard a call on my scanner last night about an SUV that was flying down he road at 90 MPH- the chase started about two blocks from my house. They used stop sticks successfully, but the driver ran from the scene- fell asleep before hearing if they caught him, but they seemed to have him holed up in a specific area. About an hour before that, I heard ten loud shots fired from a part of Milwaukee that, IMO, needs to be bulldozed. I hear shots fired from this area frequently and as usual, I heard absolutely nothing that told me the PD was going to do anything about it- no sirens at all. Someone in the county to the West of Milwaukee set a woman on fire yesterday and these events NEVER happened when I was a kid or anytime until fairly recently.

Older people can't fight off an attacker or run away- what would you do if attacked when you didn't expect it? Would you be armed? Not all older people are. As I wrote, the reports of the crimes, especially violent crimes, takes away people sense of security. I think this also explains the success of televangelists. The Pillow guy needs to get a room for himself and that pillow. The way he cradles it is pretty creepy.

I doubt your family locked the doors of your house and garage when you were young- we didn't either and we didn't feel a need to until someone entered our garage. Not to be sexist, but when I was a kid, more moms were at home and, coupled with the lack of willingness to commit extreme crimes at that time, problems were rare. Property crimes increased here and that has been a problem ever since. Fear comes from the perception that something bad will happen- why do you think people take self-defense training and buy guns? Because they want to be prepared and for many, because they're so paranoid that they'll spend a buttload of money to be able to say they own an arsenal. I don't understand the paranoia, but some people experience something that sends them over that particular cliff.

I was going to mention CNN and the 24 hour news channels and the way they pound it into everyone's face and their lack of accuracy are two of the reasons I think the media needs reform. How many times have they issued corrections and been found to have created "facts" just to have something to report (remember the GM gas tank fires that were reported by Dan Rather?). They want to be first with the report, but the accuracy has taken a back seat.

 

[Ponzio]

Crime stats have indeed gone down, in some categories but the speed with which crimes are reported is blazing fast and it doesn't go away, unlike the time before the internet. Also, the way the media pound it into our collective head makes it impossible to get away from it. I usually read the FBI stat but try to find alternative sources, too.

However, crime has spread farther from the cities and that means it directly affects more people than ever. I heard a call on my scanner last night about an SUV that was flying down he road at 90 MPH- the chase started about two blocks from my house. They used stop sticks successfully, but the driver ran from the scene- fell asleep before hearing if they caught him, but they seemed to have him holed up in a specific area. About an hour before that, I heard ten loud shots fired from a part of Milwaukee that, IMO, needs to be bulldozed. I hear shots fired from this area frequently and as usual, I heard absolutely nothing that told me the PD was going to do anything about it- no sirens at all. Someone in the county to the West of Milwaukee set a woman on fire yesterday and these events NEVER happened when I was a kid or anytime until fairly recently.

Older people can't fight off an attacker or run away- what would you do if attacked when you didn't expect it? Would you be armed? Not all older people are. As I wrote, the reports of the crimes, especially violent crimes, takes away people sense of security. I think this also explains the success of televangelists. The Pillow guy needs to get a room for himself and that pillow. The way he cradles it is pretty creepy.

I doubt your family locked the doors of your house and garage when you were young- we didn't either and we didn't feel a need to until someone entered our garage. Not to be sexist, but when I was a kid, more moms were at home and, coupled with the lack of willingness to commit extreme crimes at that time, problems were rare. Property crimes increased here and that has been a problem ever since. Fear comes from the perception that something bad will happen- why do you think people take self-defense training and buy guns? Because they want to be prepared and for many, because they're so paranoid that they'll spend a buttload of money to be able to say they own an arsenal. I don't understand the paranoia, but some people experience something that sends them over that particular cliff.

I was going to mention CNN and the 24 hour news channels and the way they pound it into everyone's face and their lack of accuracy are two of the reasons I think the media needs reform. How many times have they issued corrections and been found to have created "facts" just to have something to report (remember the GM gas tank fires that were reported by Dan Rather?). They want to be first with the report, but the accuracy has taken a back seat.

Look if the cops and my kids are being honest with me, and I have no reason to think otherwise, that’s just not true. Or not here in the suburbs at least, where I live.

Of course it stands to reason that crime will now increase, especially in major metropolitan cities, where already income challenged people have lost their jobs, due to the pandemic and the governments inaction to protect them, will resort to almost anything to keep them afloat. I know I would and I think most people would too. Survival will make you do things you’d normally wouldn’t even consider.

I’m lucky … on purpose. I literally live 300 some yards from the local police building. It was one of the reasons I bought the ground with a carriage house, which I modified (additions) and rehabbed (completely gutted the innards & rebuilt).

We always kept our house locked & buttoned down, as long as I remember; old habit from the old country, which I still observe, police station nearby or not. Why tempt fate?

And mom worked till she retired. She was feminist, she just didn’t know it.

I believe it was way worse in the 60’s from what I saw & heard in surrounding neighborhoods. It just wasn’t reported on the news and it was handled community to community differently, for better or worse in some cases.

Where we lived for the first 8 years in the US, crime-wise, it wasn’t affected. Nearby neighborhoods of Irish, Polish, Black and Germans/Slavs mostly knew that if you were caught trying to rob or break into any of the houses in the East End (mostly Sicilians), a brutal beating would ensue. I’m not saying it was right but that was the reality.

We had a built-in Neighborhood Watch before it even existed. Old timers who started moving in the 20’s & 30’s couldn’t depend on the mostly Irish police department to protect them, so they had no choice but to police themselves. Before moving to the burbs not a single crime occurred there that I can remember.

Not to get in a pissing match but Fox News has a way worse record when it comes to fact checking vs. CNN, especially at night with Hannity, Carlson and what’s her face. They’ve all mangled or lied about the ‘facts’ at one time or another (CNN, CNBC, Fox, don’t get me started on ONA, etc.). It’s even way worse with some of the internet sites.

Agreed about the ‘creepy’ Pillow Guy (Mike Lindell) and now he’s selling a prevention/cure for COVID-19. Unreal.

 

[lovinthehd]

If the republicans couldn't rely on Faux News bullshit, fear mongering and misinformation generally....what would they have?

 

[Mikado463]

Look if the cops and my kids are being honest with me, and I have no reason to think otherwise, that’s just not true. Or not here in the suburbs at least, where I live.

Of course it stands to reason that crime will now increase, especially in major metropolitan cities, where already income challenged people have lost their jobs, due to the pandemic and the governments inaction to protect them, will resort to almost anything to keep them afloat. I know I would and I think most people would too. Survival will make you do things you’d normally wouldn’t even consider.

I’m lucky … on purpose. I literally live 300 some yards from the local police building. It was one of the reasons I bought the ground with a carriage house, which I modified (additions) and rehabbed (completely gutted the innards & rebuilt).

We always kept our house locked & buttoned down, as long as I remember; old habit from the old country, which I still observe, police station nearby or not. Why tempt fate?

And mom worked till she retired. She was feminist, she just didn’t know it.

I believe it was way worse in the 60’s from what I saw & heard in surrounding neighborhoods. It just wasn’t reported on the news and it was handled community to community differently, for better or worse in some cases.

Where we lived for the first 8 years in the US, crime-wise, it wasn’t affected. Nearby neighborhoods of Irish, Polish, Black and Germans/Slavs mostly knew that if you were caught trying to rob or break into any of the houses in the East End (mostly Sicilians), a brutal beating would ensue. I’m not saying it was right but that was the reality.

We had a built-in Neighborhood Watch before it even existed. Old timers who started moving in the 20’s & 30’s couldn’t depend on the mostly Irish police department to protect them, so they had no choice but to police themselves. Before moving to the burbs not a single crime occurred there that I can remember.

Not to get in a pissing match but Fox News has a way worse record when it comes to fact checking vs. CNN, especially at night with Hannity, Carlson and what’s her face. They’ve all mangled or lied about the ‘facts’ at one time or another (CNN, CNBC, Fox, don’t get me started on ONA, etc.). It’s even way worse with some of the internet sites.

Agreed about the ‘creepy’ Pillow Guy (Mike Lindell) and now he’s selling a prevention/cure for COVID-19. Unreal.

your paragraph #7 pretty much sums it up for me, as a kid of the 50 / 60's I can relate. We've 'nanafied' this country with too much bleeding heart BS. Yes, I know, in reality there's much more to it than that, but hell, even in school today God forbid you so much as touch little 'Jonny' and discipline him. I live 37 miles west of Philly and like so many cities right now every night on the local news there are reports of shootings / killings that I'm becoming numb, not good .........

 

[lovinthehd]

your paragraph #7 pretty much sums it up for me, as a kid of the 50 / 60's I can relate. We've 'nanafied' this country with too much bleeding heart BS. Yes, I know, in reality there's much more to it than that, but hell, even in school today God forbid you so much as touch little 'Jonny' and discipline him. I live 37 miles west of Philly and like so many cities right now every night on the local news there are reports of shootings / killings that I'm becoming numb, not good .........

Yeah enough of that love and kindness crap, let's do some ass kicking with some serious discipline! Let's teach goose-stepping in the schools and have headmasters with whips! Especially those long hairs who thought Vietnam was a mistake! Don't get me started on rock and roll and that music from non-whites!

Maybe just watch the "news" less, much better for ya.

ps I'm more just a child of the 60s, don't remember the three or so years in the 50s. Also, it would be nannyfied, wouldn't it? Who's nana, grandma?

 

[eljr]

I want the media and government to stop calling riots' peaceful protests'.

they don't, your wish has always been true.

 

[eljr]

You Have Full Right to Carrie Your Weapon.

and idiots do..

 

[panteragstk]

If the republicans couldn't rely on Faux News bullshit, fear mongering and misinformation generally....what would they have?

I'm guessing a more logical point of view and maybe a bit of tolerance?

If I want to be honest (I do) I'd wager that both parties are a sad excuse for what they're supposed to be at this point. That's what happens when the "extremists" take over.

Look no further than the NRA. They used to be all about sensible gun legislation and education about safety. Now? Not so much. The radicals took over and ruined everything.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm guessing a more logical point of view and maybe a bit of tolerance?

If I want to be honest (I do) I'd wager that both parties are a sad excuse for what they're supposed to be at this point. That's what happens when the "extremists" take over.

Look no further than the NRA. They used to be all about sensible gun legislation and education about safety. Now? Not so much. The radicals took over and ruined everything.

I do agree with that first sentence particularly. The alliances with the wacky have largely turned me off in regards to that party. I even voted republican once or twice then was deeply disappointed by performance. Whoever said that they're better government managers is full of poop....neither party is good at managing what they enact IMO and whatever semblance of consistency the bureaucracy might attain is decimated by a change (like drumphy has done rather successfully from that viewpoint). NRA I've never particularly thought of as a valid organization myself....

 

[highfigh]

Look if the cops and my kids are being honest with me, and I have no reason to think otherwise, that’s just not true. Or not here in the suburbs at least, where I live.

Of course it stands to reason that crime will now increase, especially in major metropolitan cities, where already income challenged people have lost their jobs, due to the pandemic and the governments inaction to protect them, will resort to almost anything to keep them afloat. I know I would and I think most people would too. Survival will make you do things you’d normally wouldn’t even consider.

I’m lucky … on purpose. I literally live 300 some yards from the local police building. It was one of the reasons I bought the ground with a carriage house, which I modified (additions) and rehabbed (completely gutted the innards & rebuilt).

We always kept our house locked & buttoned down, as long as I remember; old habit from the old country, which I still observe, police station nearby or not. Why tempt fate?

And mom worked till she retired. She was feminist, she just didn’t know it.

I believe it was way worse in the 60’s from what I saw & heard in surrounding neighborhoods. It just wasn’t reported on the news and it was handled community to community differently, for better or worse in some cases.

Where we lived for the first 8 years in the US, crime-wise, it wasn’t affected. Nearby neighborhoods of Irish, Polish, Black and Germans/Slavs mostly knew that if you were caught trying to rob or break into any of the houses in the East End (mostly Sicilians), a brutal beating would ensue. I’m not saying it was right but that was the reality.

We had a built-in Neighborhood Watch before it even existed. Old timers who started moving in the 20’s & 30’s couldn’t depend on the mostly Irish police department to protect them, so they had no choice but to police themselves. Before moving to the burbs not a single crime occurred there that I can remember.

Not to get in a pissing match but Fox News has a way worse record when it comes to fact checking vs. CNN, especially at night with Hannity, Carlson and what’s her face. They’ve all mangled or lied about the ‘facts’ at one time or another (CNN, CNBC, Fox, don’t get me started on ONA, etc.). It’s even way worse with some of the internet sites.

Agreed about the ‘creepy’ Pillow Guy (Mike Lindell) and now he’s selling a prevention/cure for COVID-19. Unreal.

What are you disagreeing with?

WRT "crime will now increase", why? People have stopped caring that what they're doing or planning to do will harm others, whether financially, physically or mentally. Hard times aside, it's not a case of food being stolen to feed the kids, EVERYTHING is being taken. People instilled discipline in their kids but that doesn't always happen now, for many reasons.

I was with some friends a couple of weeks ago and the topic landed on people standing on corners with signs that asked for money. One guy said that if he was in that position, he could get money without begging for it- rather than standing around and asking, he would ask people what he could do for them. People always need to have something done for them, even if it's menial work. The guy who was saying this is Black. His example of someone who wasn't interested in doing that was about a guy who approached him when he owned a bar, to ask for money. He had a security guard at the door and walked the guy over to meet the guard, then said he'd pay $20 to watch the guard for two hours. The guy was a bit confused, but said he would do it. Ten minutes later, he was gone. Didn't want to do something for the money. (I'll call him Ron) said that when he offers food when the sign shows that the holder is hungry, they often refuse.

I grew up about a mile from the local PD and grade school was across the street from the station but that didn't stop the kid who stole my bike when I was in school, in 1967. Proximity to the police station doesn't always help- a guy in Milwaukee fired several rounds at a police station from the parking lot of the church across the street.

Our neighborhood watch consisted of families watching out for each others' kids and property. That included the Police because a friends' dad was an officer, so if some of us were AWOL, our moms would call that kid's mom and ask her to contact her husband and they would send a squad out to check on us. I think the department had a whole 7 officers. That was before Milwaukee criminals decided that our small city was a good place to go for their activities.

We were "lucky, on purpose", but that's no longer true.

I don't know where you live(d), but life in Milwaukee was pretty nice in the '60s. I grew up in a suburb two blocks from the Northern edge of the city and we used to go in on a regular basis- my dad had a small business near the area where he grew up and it was good, until after the riots. Many people felt that the city was no longer safe- his business lost enough customers that he felt it necessary to get out because at 48 years of age with a family, he needed to support us and his customers who were members of a minority remained, but that wasn't enough to keep it going.

I wasn't saying that Fox is better- I don't watch Fox or CNN for news but the stuff I see on CNN is slanted in a direction I don't agree with. Not to say that I'm hard Right, though. I just think people should be better at being human.

I have heard that the pillow guy was addicted to drugs for a long time- good to see that he cleaned up but geez!

 

[Ponzio]

Yes, I know, in reality there's much more to it than that

There's hope for you yet. Just kidding.

Things always look rosy & good in the past but like you said the 'reality' was different and not so good. In fact, it was dangerous. It kept our communities isolated from each other, outside of the sports fields. Venturing out of our 6x6 block area could be dangerous to your health.

Regrettably a lot of people I grew up never evolved and held on to the stereotypes/racism of their youth and now are confused about what's going on in the world. We need to walk a mile in their shoes before passing a quick judgement.

My mom & dad taught me to be respectful to cops ... yes sir, no sir ... to avoid legal entanglements ... keep your head down ... not because they were good or honest people. Sadly a majority of them were corrupt and wouldn't think twice of putting the 'squeeze' on you to get out of a speeding ticket or whatever back then. That was the 'reality' too.

But they never thought for one minute that I could be killed for having a busted taillight or some othe lame a$$ reason, like it did in the surrounding black neighborhoods. It was one of the main reasons we left Sicily, to get away from that horse$hit where the cops could do whatever they wanted with you, including snuffing your life out.

We might be neighbors. I live northwest of Philly.

 

[highfigh]

If the republicans couldn't rely on Faux News bullshit, fear mongering and misinformation generally....what would they have?

A lot of people need to listen to something other than the one source for their info, on all sides. Eventually, the nail has been hammered in as far as it will go. I can't stand Fox news but they all seem to think they own the truth, so I watch quite a bit of foreign news. If Fox News went away, I think the result would be a lot of bewildered people, wondering what to do and think.

 

[highfigh]

they don't, your wish has always been true.

Never say "never" or "always"- neither is the case and yes, some media call the rioters 'peaceful protesters' but you would have to use more than one source to find this.

 

[Ponzio]

What are you disagreeing with?

WRT "crime will now increase", why? People have stopped caring that what they're doing or planning to do will harm others, whether financially, physically or mentally. Hard times aside, it's not a case of food being stolen to feed the kids, EVERYTHING is being taken. People instilled discipline in their kids but that doesn't always happen now, for many reasons.

I was with some friends a couple of weeks ago and the topic landed on people standing on corners with signs that asked for money. One guy said that if he was in that position, he could get money without begging for it- rather than standing around and asking, he would ask people what he could do for them. People always need to have something done for them, even if it's menial work. The guy who was saying this is Black. His example of someone who wasn't interested in doing that was about a guy who approached him when he owned a bar, to ask for money. He had a security guard at the door and walked the guy over to meet the guard, then said he'd pay $20 to watch the guard for two hours. The guy was a bit confused, but said he would do it. Ten minutes later, he was gone. Didn't want to do something for the money. (I'll call him Ron) said that when he offers food when the sign shows that the holder is hungry, they often refuse.

I grew up about a mile from the local PD and grade school was across the street from the station but that didn't stop the kid who stole my bike when I was in school, in 1967. Proximity to the police station doesn't always help- a guy in Milwaukee fired several rounds at a police station from the parking lot of the church across the street.

Our neighborhood watch consisted of families watching out for each others' kids and property. That included the Police because a friends' dad was an officer, so if some of us were AWOL, our moms would call that kid's mom and ask her to contact her husband and they would send a squad out to check on us. I think the department had a whole 7 officers. That was before Milwaukee criminals decided that our small city was a good place to go for their activities.

We were "lucky, on purpose", but that's no longer true.

I don't know where you live(d), but life in Milwaukee was pretty nice in the '60s. I grew up in a suburb two blocks from the Northern edge of the city and we used to go in on a regular basis- my dad had a small business near the area where he grew up and it was good, until after the riots. Many people felt that the city was no longer safe- his business lost enough customers that he felt it necessary to get out because at 48 years of age with a family, he needed to support us and his customers who were members of a minority remained, but that wasn't enough to keep it going.

I wasn't saying that Fox is better- I don't watch Fox or CNN for news but the stuff I see on CNN is slanted in a direction I don't agree with. Not to say that I'm hard Right, though. I just think people should be better at being human.

I have heard that the pillow guy was addicted to drugs for a long time- good to see that he cleaned up but geez!

What can I tell you bro? Maybe you need to vote with your feet and move, if possible, like we did. Canada, Australia, Timbuktu

We weren't starving by any stretch, we had a farm, but the corruption made it impossible to make an honest buck and my dad had enough, so we hightailed it out of there. It was either that or join the local mafiosi; he had 'friends'. But like he said, I enjoy falling asleep at nights with both eyes closed.

Sometimes you just can't fix stupid, as that one comedian is always going on about..

 

[highfigh]

What can I tell you bro? Maybe you need to vote with your feet and move, if possible, like we did. Canada, Australia, Timbuktu

We weren't starving by any stretch, we had a farm, but the corruption made it impossible to make an honest buck and my dad had enough, so we hightailed it out of there. It was either that or join the local mafiosi; he had 'friends'. But like he said, I enjoy falling asleep at nights with both eyes closed.

Sometimes you just can't fix stupid, as that one comedian is always going on about..

Working on the move part- I'm really tired of Winter, property taxes are far too high and the area where I live is being used for recreational crime.