Dangerously close to pulling a trigger on SVS SB pro 2000

[killdozzer]

And you're to blame!!

Things move slowly in my budget, but I'm finaly close to buying the new, improved SVS 2000 subwoofer, the one that comes with smartphone app.

After I buy it I'll probably throw up from buyer's guilt, but don't tell anyone. Going with LS50s, of course I'm taking the piano black.

I have few last things to ask people here:

My current amp doens't have the sub-out. This was why it was obligatory to find a sub that has at least some basic DSP to be able to tune it all up.

I am planing to go: Yamaha PRE OUT – subwoofer LINE LEVEL IN – subwoofer LINE LEVEL OUT – YamahaMAIN IN.

Should I expect some audible delay due to this path and is this easy to sort out with SVS DSP?

If there's some delay, I'd expect this to be due to processing and not cables?

In these forums we said all there is about bi-wiring, but a new use for these cables occured to me if it's possible. Having one single jacket for „there and back again“ would look the neatest (this cable will perhaps need to go across the living room floor depending on the sub placement). Since the signal would be going both ways is it still OK to have it inside one snake skin jacket?

I guess the logic would state that I should turn off the subsonic filter in this setup?

 

[killdozzer]

Woah, woah, woah... Not all at once!

Look, I know to the initiated it may seem like this has been answered, but to the uninitiated, it doesn't.

Sure, I found some close, approximate answers in other threads, like, you can use pre-out/main-in to hook up a sub. But I'm more specifically asking if I hook it up that way, will there be some slight delay that should be dealt with? And does anyone know if such a delay is a feature in the SVS app?

In the meantime checked those level in/level out connections and saw they are RCA so my idea for using bi-wire cables is out the window (I'm kinda sad for this one). I'll still try to find a jacket to dress the cables.

The wizard for speaker/sub pairing doesn't list sb pro 2000 for LS50, but perhaps it just needs to be updated. For music in a medium I hope it will suffice. I wanted 3000, but it's too expensive.

 

[KEW]

And you're to blame!!

Woah, woah, woah... Not all at once!

We are all suffocating in our self-loathing!
The shame is so intense, it's stifling!

Oh ... and you are getting duals, right?

 

[lovinthehd]

What other subs did you consider? Any with high level inputs/outputs so you can use your cables?

 

[Chocolatey MidsFan]

The Outlaw subs have speaker level inputs, Wouldn't that be what he needs ?

 

[Chocolatey MidsFan]

HSU subs also have speàker level in but not out.

 

[lovinthehd]

@Chocolatey MidsFan he's in europe, don't think that Hsu or Outlaw brands have distribution there.

 

[Chocolatey MidsFan]

I looked at XTZ but they don't have speaker level inputs. I know they get recommended to our European friends sometimes .

 

[killdozzer]

We are all suffocating in our self-loathing!
The shame is so intense, it's stifling!

Oh ... and you are getting duals, right?

 

[killdozzer]

What other subs did you consider? Any with high level inputs/outputs so you can use your cables?

No, the cables are not an issue bc I still don't own a bi-wire vable, but I was hoping for this IMO elegant solution to work so that I can have apparently one cable on the ground instead of more. But, I'll just dress RCA cables.

I did consider other subs, but I need one with some level of DSP bc of what I explained using an stereo amp in my system (remember, I always talked about going for 2.1 (perhaps in time 2.2)). So I looked for ELAC 10 recommended in KEW's thread, but it's not available anywhere near me. I was looking at some wireless Yamaha's, but wireless doesn't mean DSP.

It's just for music in a hard, hard "atomic-shelter" grade concrete bare walls room (high-rise made to endure 7. earthquakes), so I get heaps of bass and I think single will do just fine.

I wouldn't mind BK or Sunfire or something like that, but some of them I can't get in Croatia and some are just reassuring, there's not a lot of reviews and feedback on lesser known.

 

[killdozzer]

I would in fact be very happy if they would decide to put DSP in SVS 1000. I wouldn't mind.

Also (honestly) I read dozens of articles on subs here on AH, but most of them cover AVR's, only one case I found where Gene says you can run double cables from binding posts, but since my bass management would be in the sub and not the amp, I'd like to filter out the lows while the signal is in the sub and then return to the amp only the part of the signal without lows.

This is because I plan to take away a small part of the low end from the mains. Now, if your amp doesn't have the bass management the only way to do this is to lower it on Bass knob (the good ol' Bass/Treble/Balance). Getting the right amount that way would be harder.

So I would cross them over high and make the sub play closer to its higher freqs.

 

[everettT]

I would in fact be very happy if they would decide to put DSP in SVS 1000. I wouldn't mind.

Also (honestly) I read dozens of articles on subs here on AH, but most of them cover AVR's, only one case I found where Gene says you can run double cables from binding posts, but since my bass management would be in the sub and not the amp, I'd like to filter out the lows while the signal is in the sub and then return to the amp only the part of the signal without lows.

This is because I plan to take away a small part of the low end from the mains. Now, if your amp doesn't have the bass management the only way to do this is to lower it on Bass knob (the good ol' Bass/Treble/Balance). Getting the right amount that way would be harder.

So I would cross them over high and make the sub play closer to its higher freqs.

There is always minidsp... Another rabbit hole lol.

 

[killdozzer]

There is always minidsp... Another rabbit hole lol.

Youuuuuu, blodyyyyy... With all your knowledge and might and this is what I get, another rabbit hole??

But it's a fair point, I could add a DSP. All these gadgets are not that readily available in my parts, I'd end up spending more rather than less.

 

[killdozzer]

AAAARGH!! God damn it!!

"How did the sub get to be 360 or more degrees late? It's the overall physics of how it's built. The only correct way to implement a sub so the frequency response and phase response can be controlled and have it socially acceptable in a living room is to implement a sealed box design, and that means EQ circuitry. Also most of the better brands of subs, JL Audio included, use massive drivers which have a relatively large X-max (that means cone movement). The combination of the air pressure in the sealed box, and the rest of the equalization circuitry necessary equal a mechanical and electronic phenomena which equals an overall time or group delay. Therefore IF the sub is already 8-10 msec late, AND it is placed in the corners further away than the mains (just for example) then relative to the mains it might be 12-16 msec late. YOU CANNOT TAKE THIS DELAY AWAY. "

 

[everettT]

AAAARGH!! God damn it!!

"How did the sub get to be 360 or more degrees late? It's the overall physics of how it's built. The only correct way to implement a sub so the frequency response and phase response can be controlled and have it socially acceptable in a living room is to implement a sealed box design, and that means EQ circuitry. Also most of the better brands of subs, JL Audio included, use massive drivers which have a relatively large X-max (that means cone movement). The combination of the air pressure in the sealed box, and the rest of the equalization circuitry necessary equal a mechanical and electronic phenomena which equals an overall time or group delay. Therefore IF the sub is already 8-10 msec late, AND it is placed in the corners further away than the mains (just for example) then relative to the mains it might be 12-16 msec late. YOU CANNOT TAKE THIS DELAY AWAY. "

Back to the minidsp ...

 

[killdozzer]

Back to the minidsp ...

But seriously now, isn't the app built in SVS subs enough?

 

[everettT]

But seriously now, isn't the app built in SVS subs enough?

I'd have to look what models and what features it has.

 

[killdozzer]

I'm beginning to really like this guy!!
"On top of all the previous variables we have all the issues, errors, and modern production values and practices inherent in the recording process. It is simply laughable (and pathetic) when I read the magazine articles where the reviewer calls the "soundstage" of a rock recording "palpable". Sorry, but every rock/pop recording made in the last 50 years is composed of a series of panned mono sources that have absolutely no "depth" or "width". They are each separately sent to an echo/reverb device, the delayed returns of which are usually (but not always) panned somewhere in the left to right soundstage 'width'. The combination of the 3 panned signals ("real", "echo return 1", and "echo return 2") then present an auditory fantasy (hallucination, actually) of a "soundstage". "

He slightly reminds me of our Warrior.

 

[killdozzer]

I'd have to look what models and what features it has.

If you haven't already, I wouldn't want to bother you. I thought maybe you know and that's why you recommend miniDSP.

My goal is to have a really slender system; amp, fronts, sub (nothing else), but to have it nicely integrated. TT is there as a souvenir, and digital files are on my PC. I'm trying to avoid external phono-stages, headphone stages, pre-amps, DSPs and the rest.

That's why I was looking for a sub that has management built in.

 

[killdozzer]

The guy is great, I'm laughing alone in my wineshop like crazy...

"You MAY have out of phase bass (i.e. "low frequencies") on a CD, but precious few producers/engineers are savvy enough (or care enough to even bother, since, typically, what's the point?) to make use of those sort of tricks. There are some EDM dubstep dance trance psychedelia eurotrash electronica club music releases where there are bass tracks where there is stereo bass in the form of something like 24 Hz in one channel and 24.2 Hz in the other channel; therefore you get an air pressure differential which travels around the room. Cool! "