Elucidating AVR Channels vs Total Channels with an Amplifiers

[Pogre]

Called Paradigm, opened up the crossovers and did some measurements. Tested the individual speakers with the LCR and Multimeter. One of the tweeters is installed incorrectly. That's the source of the mismatch. Weirdly one of the crossovers had lower values for resistance/capacitance/inductance across the transformers. I moved things around, and it significantly improved the sound.

Regardless I've listed the speakers for sale and am waiting for a pair of RTI polk's to get posted online near me. I've been scouring the markets.

The amp was conveniently posted and I was curious. I can always sell it, or keep it for a potential future 7.2.4 atmos setup in 5 or 10 years or so.

I knew it had to be something with the speakers. Were you able to determine if the tweeters and crossovers are proper replacements or modified to work correctly with those speakers? What did you measure?

I know you're putting them up for sale, good. Tho they might be a tough sell if the answer to my first question is "no". I'm just curious what you found out.

 

[ryanosaur]

5 pages in...

Where's the Popcorn?

And the Booze?

 

[Fried Chicken]

I knew it had to be something with the speakers. Were you able to determine if the tweeters and crossovers are proper replacements or modified to work correctly with those speakers? What did you measure?

I'm not sure if the tweeters are appropriate, but they do work. I confirmed the bad tweeter by swapping the tweeters from one side to the other. The soundstage followed. Opening them up, one of the tweeters (the bad one) is physically installed differently. The speakers still sound amazing as they are.

 

[Pogre]

I'm not sure if the tweeters are appropriate, but they do work. I confirmed the bad tweeter by swapping the tweeters from one side to the other. The soundstage followed. Opening them up, one of the tweeters (the bad one) is physically installed differently. The speakers still sound amazing as they are.

Wait until you hear good speakers that haven't been tampered with and ruined. You're in for an eye opener. How much was the amp?

 

[Fried Chicken]

Wait until you hear good speakers that haven't been tampered with and ruined. You're in for an eye opener. How much was the amp?

$300

The RTI A3's were great, but I upgraded to a 7.1 system by adding those towers on the front.

What do I want to set the speaker levels to on the amplifier to match with the receiver? 0? Infinity? Middle? Right now I have them set to the middle position.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Ok, quick update. I had my amplifier gains set incorrectly. I had them at -6 dB (top dead center position), and now I’ve matched them at 0dB.

Holy balls to the wall 1980’s power. Talk about cooking with fire. WOW.

I definitely need to find replacement towers as soon as I sell the paradigms. Something within the RTI range from Polk Audio to match the system, then I will declare the project finished and not worry about it again until I add dolby atmos 7.2.4 some 5 or 10 years from now.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok, quick update. I had my amplifier gains set incorrectly. I had them at -6 dB (top dead center position), and now I’ve matched them at 0dB.

Holy balls to the wall 1980’s power. Talk about cooking with fire. WOW.

I definitely need to find replacement towers as soon as I sell the paradigms. Something within the RTI range from Polk Audio to match the system, then I will declare the project finished and not worry about it again until I add dolby atmos 7.2.4 some 5 or 10 years from now.

Yep setting the gains well is a good thing. At least it had that adjustment, many consumer amps don't.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Yep setting the gains well is a good thing. At least it had that adjustment, many consumer amps don't.

I just cranked them to 0. I was toying with trying to get it all matched and perfect, but with them at 0 it’s all pretty much at 0 with the exception of the rears being pushed to +1.

 

[lovinthehd]

I just cranked them to 0. I was toying with trying to get it all matched and perfect, but with them at 0 it’s all pretty much at 0 with the exception of the rears being pushed to +1.

You're referring to speaker trim levels when you re-run YPAO ? What were you trying to match? Does the amp have a clipping indicator?

 

[Fried Chicken]

You're referring to speaker trim levels when you re-run YPAO ? What were you trying to match? Does the amp have a clipping indicator?

Sorry, I realize in retrospect how vague that was. I initially wanted to set the Gain on the Amplifier to match with 0 when measured using YPAO relative to the other speakers (all speakers equal). I think the appropriate number would have been -1 or -2 dB (on the amplifier for each channel). However I instead just put the gain on the amplifier to 0 dB. When I measured with YPAO it broadly came out to 0 with only the two rears being pushed up about 1 dB. This is acceptable for what I want to do. I hope it does not introduce distortion, however because yamaha labels it as 0 dB this should be the appropriate setting.

It is glorious.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry, I realize in retrospect how vague that was. I initially wanted to set the Gain on the Amplifier to match with 0 when measured using YPAO relative to the other speakers (all speakers equal). I think the appropriate number would have been -1 or -2 dB (on the amplifier for each channel). However I instead just put the gain on the amplifier to 0 dB. When I measured with YPAO it broadly came out to 0 with only the two rears being pushed up about 1 dB. This is acceptable for what I want to do. I hope it does not introduce distortion, however because yamaha labels it as 0 dB this should be the appropriate setting.

It is glorious.

I forget, do you have all the same speaker and equidistant from your listening position?

 

[Fried Chicken]

I forget, do you have all the same speaker and equidistant from your listening position?

I do not. I have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 9 v4’s in the front that I plan on selling. My center is a CSI A6, my surrounds are RTI A3’s (these were my fronts), and my rear surrounds are older Polk Audio models, idk which one (unified black mid and tweeter bookshelf). My Sub is an Alison AL10 that I also plan on selling. I got it with the paradigms and it replaced my Polk PSW111. I’ll need to find an appropriate subwoofer when the time comes.

 

[lovinthehd]

Unless all the speakers were same sensitivity and distance from your listening position, there'd be no particular reason for expecting them to have the same trim level, so was curious. I see they're somewhat similar in sensitivity, so depending on distance that may work out. I was just curious why you felt the trim level was to be a particular number....

 

[Fried Chicken]

Unless all the speakers were same sensitivity and distance from your listening position, there'd be no particular reason for expecting them to have the same trim level, so was curious. I see they're somewhat similar in sensitivity, so depending on distance that may work out. I was just curious why you felt the trim level was to be a particular number....

Because nobody told me how to connect my amplifier, and I didn’t want to set the house on fire, so I didn’t turn it up to max.

 

[lovinthehd]

Because nobody told me how to connect my amplifier, and I didn’t want to set the house on fire, so I didn’t turn it up to max.

Nobody told you to get an amplifier you didn't know how to connect? The level control is usually more an attenuator than any kind of "turning it up" thing. If you need to set it at full for the pre-out levels provided, that's possible....

 

[Fried Chicken]

Nobody told you to get an amplifier you didn't know how to connect? The level control is usually more an attenuator than any kind of "turning it up" thing. If you need to set it at full for the pre-out levels provided, that's possible....

I could not find pre-out values for my RX-A810. Does this correspond to the input sensitivity of the amplifier, which in the case of the M-65 is 1.28V according to this?

Doesn’t matter anyway, neither is getting updated. I have signed myself up for a life of poverty. I wish the M-65 had a trigger input. Now anyone that wants to use the home theater needs to push a button. Disaster.

Regarding nobody telling me to get an amplifier....

You indeed may be a candidate for a good power amp in any case.

 

[Pogre]

Regarding nobody telling me to get an amplifier....

How about the ones telling you to get some speakers that haven't been tampered with before getting an amp..? I suggested you do that, hook them up and see if an amp is even necessary...

 

[Fried Chicken]

How about the ones telling you to get some speakers that haven't been tampered with before getting an amp..? I suggested you do that, hook them up and see if an amp is even necessary...

Unfortunately I’m at the whim of what the used market offers. I’ve listed the paradigms, and I’m on the lookout for some floorstanding RTIs from Polk. There’s nothing more to do. I have no regrets getting the amplifier, it has made a huge difference, and from my reading, polk towers tend to be very power hungry.

 

[lovinthehd]

I could not find pre-out values for my RX-A810. Does this correspond to the input sensitivity of the amplifier, which in the case of the M-65 is 1.28V according to this?

Doesn’t matter anyway, neither is getting updated. I have signed myself up for a life of poverty. I wish the M-65 had a trigger input. Now anyone that wants to use the home theater needs to push a button. Disaster.

Regarding nobody telling me to get an amplifier....

I think if it sounds good and you aren't running into any obvious clipping or extraneous noise you're fine. Most manuals only list a nominal pre-out value anyways and in your manual I only see spec for sub pre-out (1V).

You can use a smart power strip to power up the amp, what I use for several.

LOL I did put a qualification on that bit about an amp

 

[Fried Chicken]

I think if it sounds good and you aren't running into any obvious clipping or extraneous noise you're fine. Most manuals only list a nominal pre-out value anyways and in your manual I only see spec for sub pre-out (1V).

You can use a smart power strip to power up the amp, what I use for several.

LOL I did put a qualification on that bit about an amp

That smart power strip is not a bad idea! I love old electronics that were either on or off.