Elucidating AVR Channels vs Total Channels with an Amplifiers

[Grandzoltar]

I've previously tried setting the speakers to small, and I noticed a significant drop in bass. In fact audibly I felt it was better, however the surround speakers are set primarily for movie watching, and I feel if the original mixer had wanted only treble frequencies for the surround they would have set it.

If the 60hz next to the sub is your crossover, like what was said before an octave or half octave above your speakers +/-3db lowest frequency response. Following that rule 80-100 for your surrounds, 80 -110 for your center, 80-100 for your fronts. The hpf of the subwoofer should be 120 dont confuse that with crossover for your speakers if you chose the hpf of 60hz your sub bass would be rolled off above 60hz. Try small setting and start at 80 and work your way up and see what you like.

 

[Fried Chicken]

If the 60hz next to the sub is your crossover, like what was said before an octave or half octave above your speakers +/-3db lowest frequency response. Following that rule 80-100 for your surrounds, 80 -110 for your center, 80-100 for your fronts. The hpf of the subwoofer should be 120 dont confuse that with crossover for your speakers if you chose the hpf of 60hz your sub bass would be rolled off above 60hz. Try small setting and start at 80 and work your way up and see what you like.

what?

 

[Fried Chicken]

So I was getting great advice, then I posted all the information needed and suddenly radio silence.

I’m going to sell the Paradigm’s, and then I’m going to get some Polk Audio RTI series speakers to match the rest of the system. I’m leaning toward’s the RTI8/RTI A5 for the front’s because the RTI10/RTI A7 seems to have more bass, but that’s not what I’m looking for. The next step up would be the RTI12/RTI A9 series, but that’s a huge step up, and is out of my budget. It would also be overkill.

Can I set the bass cutoff for the individual speakers or does “small” just set it whatever the bass crossover frequency is or something else? I still don’t get it.

I also think I’m going to look for a deal on a 90’s yamaha amplifier. Apparently these things are tanks. Reason is twofold, one it will pave the way for a future 7.2.4 dolby atmos set, where I can buy a 9-channel amplifier and boost it to 11 with the amp, two I can alleviate the load on my existing rx-a810 which can get overloaded with my current setup. Are these particularly difficult to set up? Volume-matching wise? Or is that handled by the receiver/YPAO? Tbh I would rather minimize my dependence on YPAO or any auto-configuration and rely more on proper speaker placement/configuration.

The only thing that’s missing is a proper subwoofer as I plan on selling the PSW111 and Alison AL10 I have.

 

[lovinthehd]

When you set a speaker/channel to small that enables bass management, i.e. setting a crossover between sub and speaker. If you leave the setting at large and use a double bass type setting then the speaker/channel will play full range and the sub will duplicate the lower range of the speaker up to the crossover set (which is really only a low pass filter now).

Old power amps aren't significantly different from newer power amps and older amps may require service, or at least service sooner. They're easily incorporated with your avr's amps for level by using YPAO or an spl meter.

 

[Fried Chicken]

When you set a speaker/channel to small that enables bass management, i.e. setting a crossover between sub and speaker. If you leave the setting at large and use a double bass type setting then the speaker/channel will play full range and the sub will duplicate the lower range of the speaker up to the crossover set (which is really only a low pass filter now).

Old power amps aren't significantly different from newer power amps and older amps may require service, or at least service sooner. They're easily incorporated with your avr's amps for level by using YPAO or an spl meter.

What would you recommend for around $300? I’m looking at the M-60/M-70/M-80 or MX-800/MX-830.... in that range.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hmmm. Lets see
M-50 from 1982 120wpc into 8 ohm full range with decent thd and "clipping power" of 200wpc into 4 ohm, 1.1V sensitivity, .
M-70 same agewise, 200wpc full range with decent thd into 8 ohm and "clipping power" 250wpc into 4 ohm, 1.41V sensitivity
M-80 same agewise I'd guess, 250 wpc into 8 ohm, 330 wpc into 4 ohm both full range with decent thd, 1.55V sensitivity
M-800 from 1988, 170 wpc into 8 ohm, 230 wpc into 4 ohm both full range with decent thd (and even indicates dynamic power of 600 wpc into 1 ohm), 1.32V sensitivity
M-830 I didn't find

The M-80 looks the most interesting to me altho not particularly impressive any of them at 4 ohm but would think the sensitivity should be in range of the Yamaha avr you have but there have been some models with some issues in that regard, don't know where the 810 falls. I'd probably just get a Crown XLS 1502 myself.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Hmmm. Lets see
M-50 from 1982 120wpc into 8 ohm full range with decent thd and "clipping power" of 200wpc into 4 ohm, 1.1V sensitivity, .
M-70 same agewise, 200wpc full range with decent thd into 8 ohm and "clipping power" 250wpc into 4 ohm, 1.41V sensitivity
M-80 same agewise I'd guess, 250 wpc into 8 ohm, 330 wpc into 4 ohm both full range with decent thd, 1.55V sensitivity
M-800 from 1988, 170 wpc into 8 ohm, 230 wpc into 4 ohm both full range with decent thd (and even indicates dynamic power of 600 wpc into 1 ohm), 1.32V sensitivity
M-830 I didn't find

The M-80 looks the most interesting to me altho not particularly impressive any of them at 4 ohm but would think the sensitivity should be in range of the Yamaha avr you have but there have been some models with some issues in that regard, don't know where the 810 falls. I'd probably just get a Crown XLS 1502 myself.

I’m basing this off of this list:

Legendary Amps

amplifiers, repair

legendaryamps.com

I’m skeptical that new technology is as better or better than old technology. In many ways it simply isn’t.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m basing this off of this list:

Legendary Amps

amplifiers, repair

legendaryamps.com

I’m skeptical that new technology is as better or better than old technology. In many ways it simply isn’t.

That M-830 seems to be very similar to the M-800.

One advantage older electronics might have is serviceability but lack of same is more an issue for processors/avrs where entire boards might need replacement, but does help fuel the "vintage" market. Age/heat (and use) take their toll over time on older gear, tho. Amp technology for class A or AB hasn't changed really, altho many are changing over to class D now and could be less service friendly. The Crown I mentioned is class D fwiw (I have four of them). YMMV.

 

[Fried Chicken]

That M-830 seems to be very similar to the M-800.

One advantage older electronics might have is serviceability but lack of same is more an issue for processors/avrs where entire boards might need replacement, but does help fuel the "vintage" market. Age/heat (and use) take their toll over time on older gear, tho. Amp technology for class A or AB hasn't changed really, altho many are changing over to class D now and could be less service friendly. The Crown I mentioned is class D fwiw (I have four of them). YMMV.

I appreciate it!

What am I looking for from an amplifier? I’ve heard about class a/ab/d, but I have no idea what it means for sound reproduction.

I just looked at the Crown XLS 1502. What THD rating does it have? How might it compare to those old yamaha’s?

 

[lovinthehd]

I appreciate it!

What am I looking for from an amplifier? I’ve heard about class a/ab/d, but I have no idea what it means for sound reproduction.

I just looked at the Crown XLS 1502. What THD rating does it have? How might it compare to those old yamaha’s?

Crown rates their pro amps generally at 1khz at .1% so not particularly comparable directly but they measure decently. You can review the testing at audiosciencereview.com. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference sonically (and can't in comparison with my older consumer amps or avrs that I have), I consider them transparent (and many folk have switched to them from consumer amps once they experience this). I look for good low impedance load handling (the Crowns can handle 2 ohm loads), sensitivity to make sure it'll work with my pre-out levels, features like gain adjustability, clipping sensors....

 

[3db]

I appreciate it!

What am I looking for from an amplifier? I’ve heard about class a/ab/d, but I have no idea what it means for sound reproduction.

I just looked at the Crown XLS 1502. What THD rating does it have? How might it compare to those old yamaha’s?

Stick with the Yamaha M series.. They produced quite a few so getting spare parts maybe be easier to source then these more esoteric brands.

You dont need an arc welder for power. Even if you got an amp with similar power of the AVR, you will only be driving 3 speakers instead of whatever number of speakers you are trying to drive now. With bass management employed and letting your subs doing the heavy lifting, theres enough breathing room to crank your 3 front loudspeakers

 

[Fried Chicken]

I have just acquired a Yamaha m-65 Amplifier.

i haven’t noticed a difference yet

 

[CajunLB]

I have just acquired a Yamaha m-65 Amplifier.

i haven’t noticed a difference yet

And you won’t.

 

[Fried Chicken]

And you won’t.

Well this was effectively a waste of $300. When is an external amplifier needed then?

 

[lovinthehd]

At least it didn't get worse. You need an external amp when you exceed the capabilities of the onboard amps....or just want one is good enough for many

 

[Fried Chicken]

At least it didn't get worse. You need an external amp when you exceed the capabilities of the onboard amps....or just want one is good enough for many

Tbh, I think... maybe.... it sounds a bit worse?! I'm not sure. I'll have to do some listening when I didn't have a day of stress behind me. I was working/traveling all day today. When there is peace, that I can shatter.

How do I know if I was exceeding the capabilities of my RX-A810?

This makes me all the more impressed with my RX-A810.

 

[lovinthehd]

Tbh, I think... maybe.... it sounds a bit worse?! I'm not sure. I'll have to do some listening when I didn't have a day of stress behind me. I was working/traveling all day today. When there is peace, that I can shatter.

How do I know if I was exceeding the capabilities of my RX-A810?

This makes me all the more impressed with my RX-A810.

Hearing clipping/distortion that's harshing your mellow AVRs can be perfectly fine on their own for many....

 

[Pogre]

Well this was effectively a waste of $300. When is an external amplifier needed then?

I'm pretty sure at least one of us told you not to expect any major improvements in sq...

 

[Pogre]

And did you replace those questionable speakers?! That was my suggestion for improving things. You got an amp instead..?

 

[Fried Chicken]

And did you replace those questionable speakers?! That was my suggestion for improving things. You got an amp instead..?

Called Paradigm, opened up the crossovers and did some measurements. Tested the individual speakers with the LCR and Multimeter. One of the tweeters is installed incorrectly. That's the source of the mismatch. Weirdly one of the crossovers had lower values for resistance/capacitance/inductance across the transformers. I moved things around, and it significantly improved the sound.

Regardless I've listed the speakers for sale and am waiting for a pair of RTI polk's to get posted online near me. I've been scouring the markets.

The amp was conveniently posted and I was curious. I can always sell it, or keep it for a potential future 7.2.4 atmos setup in 5 or 10 years or so.