Marantz SR6014 Audio Dropouts

[LonePine]

Hey Everyone,

Yesterday I setup my new Marantz SR6014. Previously I had a Pioneer SC-05. Everything else in my setup is the same:
Sony XBR65 4K TV
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon
Pro-Ject MM Phono Preamp
Bowers and Wilkins 700 Series speakers (Towers, center and rear)
PS4
Apple TV

HDMI 2.0 Cables for TV, Apple TV and PS4
RCA Cables for Pro-Ject - with ground wire.

I’m having audio dropouts about every 2-3 songs when listening to a vinyl record on the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. Theres no audio for 2 seconds and then it comes back and keeps playing fine. 2-3 songs later, it will happen again. This has not happened on anything plugged in with an HDMI cable (Apple TV, PS4). It has also not happened when I play Spotify directly to the receiver.

I tried using my preamp and going into the CD input on the Marantz. I also tried without my preamp and using the Marantz phono input, same issue.
I tried multiple records. I unplugged and replugged. I cleaned the needle. It still happens.

This never happened on my previous setup and I’m researching a lot of ”marantz audio dropouts” but most of them seem to be when using HDMI inputs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I know I could return it, but I ‘d like to troubleshoot for a while incase it’s on my end and a new Marantz would have the same problem.


Thank you,

 

[lovinthehd]

Do other analog sources act the same with the avr? Can't say I've heard of such issues with an avr with an analog source, more expected you to be having hdmi issues, but I'd try resetting the avr to clear out any possible glitches first. Even just a soft reset (unplugging the avr for a bit) might do it, but if not then a full microprocessor/factory reset would be next thing I'd try.

 

[Verdinut]

I suspect that your phono preamp has an intermittent problem. I would suggest that you have it checked by a dependable technician. There's also a remote possibility that one of the connecting wires of your cartridge is not properly secured.

 

[lovinthehd]

I suspect that your phono preamp has an intermittent problem. I would suggest that you have it checked by a dependable technician. There's also a remote possibility that one of the connecting wires of your cartridge is not properly secured.

He's tried both an external phono stage as well as the one in the Marantz with same result, tho....good point on checking connections, tho.

 

[Verdinut]

If your phono cartridge connections are intact, then I think the Marantz is defective. I would return it and get a replacement.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd still start with resets before just returning it, tho. I wonder if it's somehow stuck on trying to perform some sort of automatic switch on input type like it might do for various digital types of input....

 

[TLS Guy]

I suspect that your phono preamp has an intermittent problem. I would suggest that you have it checked by a dependable technician. There's also a remote possibility that one of the connecting wires of your cartridge is not properly secured.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you. However dropping out on two audio channels at once takes an awful lot of explaining.

Obviously it is not his preamp.

He needs to connect something else to the CD input like a CD player using the analog outputs. Then we will all know for sure if this is a receiver problem or a turntable problem.

So overall because it is both channels I think I suspect the receiver more. So if it is the receiver, I suspect it may on the contact less switching circuit in the receiver. The are flip flop type circuits. All it takes is for one component to be out of spec. and the circuit will not stabilize properly and then you get this intermittent switching.

So I would advise the OP to see if it the turntable or the receiver and reset it if it seems to be the receiver.

One other thing that occurs to me is that this could still be an HDMI issue. On Marantz units the digital inputs and analog inputs are shared. But HDMI has priority.
So you have to have no HDMI signal going in, and if there is then it switches away from the analog input right away. So it is possible that the HDMI board, or something connecting to it, is creating an intermittent signal the is shutting down the analog input for brief periods. We know this is happening on both phono and CD input.

So I think the causes are either the switching circuits, the HDMI board, or the turntable.

If the turntable is excluded I would advise a hard reset to factory defaults. If not successful then repeat 3 or 4 times. If that does not resolve it then return the unit.

As I write this, I'm actually inclined to blame the HDMI board, if for no other reason than the fact they tend to be built in trouble units.

 

[TLS Guy]

I had one more thought.

It is summer and its hot round here anyway! That means ACs are working hard. So my question is what type of dwelling do live in? Is a free standing house, apartment, or connected condo living?

The reason I ask is that AC starting and running caps, especially starting caps, go bad frequently. When they do every time the AC cuts in you get a spike on the power line. A tell tale sign is slight dimming of the lights as your AC turns on. It does not have to be your unit, especially in connected condos, or even a nearby house sharing the same local transformer. These spikes would be quite enough to trigger the switching I was talking about.

These caps are an area of maintenance that most home owners forget. Those caps in AC need checking every year. In my experience they actually need replacing quite frequently as AC compressor motors give them quite a pounding.

 

[Verdinut]

I had one more thought.

It is summer and its hot round here anyway! That means ACs are working hard. So my question is what type of dwelling do live in? Is a free standing house, apartment, or connected condo living?

The reason I ask is that AC starting and running caps, especially starting caps, go bad frequently. When they do every time the AC cuts in you get a spike on the power line. A tell tale sign is slight dimming of the lights as your AC turns on. It does not have to be your unit, especially in connected condos, or even a nearby house sharing the same local transformer. These spikes would be quite enough to trigger the switching I was talking about.

These caps are an area of maintenance that most home owners forget. Those caps in AC need checking every year. In my experience they actually need replacing quite frequently as AC compressor motors give them quite a pounding.

Would a power conditioner such as this APC H15 filter those spikes?

file:///C:/Users/ANDR~1/AppData/Local/Temp/AV%20Power%20Conditioners%20&%20Battery%20Backups_H15.pdf

I have one of these units and it regulates the voltage to a certain extent. I've noticed for instance that when I turn on the plasma TV, following my settings, if the voltage drops below 118 volts, this conditioner will instantly boost for a fraction of a second the output voltage: The boost pilot light flickers for a very short burst.

 

[TLS Guy]

Would a power conditioner such as this APC H15 filter those spikes?

file:///C:/Users/ANDR~1/AppData/Local/Temp/AV%20Power%20Conditioners%20&%20Battery%20Backups_H15.pdf

I have one of these units and it regulates the voltage to a certain extent. I've noticed for instance that when I turn on the plasma TV, following my settings, if the voltage drops below 118 volts, this conditioner will instantly boost for a fraction of a second the output voltage: The boost pilot light flickers for a very short burst.

I highly doubt they would react fast enough, but they might. My APC units have a 5 msec response time, that might be enough.

Anyhow, if that is the problem, the solution is cap replacement. It is well worth keeping those caps replaced, as failing caps reduce efficiency and raise your cooling electric bill.

 

[LonePine]

I appreciate all these suggestions!

I wanted to continue testing for a day before I came back with any updates. I did a soft reset, as originally suggested.
The first two vinyls I played had no issues at all. I kept waiting for it to cut out but it didn’t. The PS4 functioned flawlessly for 2-3 hours with no issues. Before I posted on here I ordered new HDMI 2.1 cables, because I too thought maybe the HDMI’s were the problem. Simply by being connected, even if they aren’t connected to the turntable.

Now we get to this evening. I was playing Spotify through the HEOS function and the audio started cutting out, this time more frequently. But for the same amount of time 2 seconds. I thought maybe it was my phone doing too many things at once and the WiFi couldn’t keep up (we have a strong WiFi signal and high speed). So I moved the connection to my iPad. Opened Spotify on my iPad and did the HEOS connection that way. Same problem.

We live in an apartment complex, no AC running today.

I know it’s not the turn table because the Pioneer had no issues.
Now I know it’s not the HDMI cables because I just replaced all of those to 8k HMDI 2.1 cables.

I think I liked it better when it was just the turntable...

 

[TLS Guy]

I appreciate all these suggestions!

I wanted to continue testing for a day before I came back with any updates. I did a soft reset, as originally suggested.
The first two vinyls I played had no issues at all. I kept waiting for it to cut out but it didn’t. The PS4 functioned flawlessly for 2-3 hours with no issues. Before I posted on here I ordered new HDMI 2.1 cables, because I too thought maybe the HDMI’s were the problem. Simply by being connected, even if they aren’t connected to the turntable.

Now we get to this evening. I was playing Spotify through the HEOS function and the audio started cutting out, this time more frequently. But for the same amount of time 2 seconds. I thought maybe it was my phone doing too many things at once and the WiFi couldn’t keep up (we have a strong WiFi signal and high speed). So I moved the connection to my iPad. Opened Spotify on my iPad and did the HEOS connection that way. Same problem.

We live in an apartment complex, no AC running today.

I know it’s not the turn table because the Pioneer had no issues.
Now I know it’s not the HDMI cables because I just replaced all of those to 8k HMDI 2.1 cables.

I think I liked it better when it was just the turntable...

Well at least the problem is clarified. We were misled by it seeming to be an analog only problem. Now it is not.

I'm pretty sure that your amp is going into protection, as it does not like those B & W speakers.

Receivers are now are not much use driving an awful lot of speakers. They really are only suitable as preamps, pretty much now. That receiver is only rated to 6 ohms, and you can tell from the specs. that it struggles at 6 ohms.

Most B & W speakers are difficult loads, with adverse phase angles and low dips of impedance. Very few speakers are 8 or even 6 ohms. Most speakers are in the 4 to 6 ohm bracket with many lower than that. When you add large negative phase angles then the loads presented by a lot of speakers are far worse than they seem at first sight.

Here is the impedance curve of a B & W 702 speaker with phase angles.

Note that in a good deal of the power band, this speaker is in fact three ohms. Now look at 70 Hz where the impedance is around 4 ohms but the angle between phase and current is over 60 degrees negative. A that point the current demand is enormous and will blow up any receiver currently on the market.

If you persist in driving those speakers with a receiver you will blow any of them up and they will have a short life span.

So your solution is powerful and robust external amplification. With those speakers you have no other choice. You need to stop driving those speakers with that receiver now, or I can guarantee you will ruin it.

As the complexity of all the processing and less space for power amps, receivers are in my view not fit for purpose, if they ever where. If people want all these channels then we need to move to separates there is no other choice.

 

[LonePine]

Thanks for sending this info. I was just playing a vinyl and it happened twice, so the same pattern as before.

If this is truly a power issue, why doesn’t it happen with movies? We watched one last night and one this afternoon, without a single drop or disturbance. PS4 and AppleTV.

The Pioneer SC-05 I had from 2008 had been handling these speakers for 4 years without ever having audio dropouts Via turntable or Spotify.

 

[Verdinut]

Should you want to get external amplification for your 702s, I would suggest that you drive them with pro audio amplifiers which can easily handle loads down to 2 ohms. They are about the only affordable amps which will be able to drive such low impedance.

The Crown XLS 1002 2 channel amplifier with rated power: 215 watts @ 8 ohms (550 w @ 2 ohms):

Crown XLS 1002

Meet the new XLS DriveCore™ 2 Series The next generation of XLS got a makeover with a sleek n...

www.crownaudio.com

Or the QSC DCA 1222 2 channel amplifier: 200 watts @ 8 ohms (>500 w @ 2 ohms):

DCA 1222

Crystal-clear, breathtaking, seat-shaking cinema sound is here with the DCA 1222 Digital Cinema Amplifier by QSC

www.qsc.com

Either of these amps would give you a trouble free performance with your B & W speakers. I suggest that you get a second one and use one of the channels to drive the center channel speaker too. In home theater applications, the center channel often needs more power than either of the other front channels, so you need as much available power for it. The SR6014 could be used to drive the surround channels which require a lot less power than the front ones.

The QSC is more expensive than the Crown, it has better looks, it most likely also contains components manufactured in Asia but it is built in the US. It also has better specs. It uses a variable speed cooling fan which you won't hear if your listening position is 8 feet away, just after operating for a few minutes. You can't kill it. I am using three of these in my HT system for driving my front speakers and I wouldn't use anything else.

By the way, if you live close to a large city, some pro audio shops rent Crown amps and you could try one on your front left and right channels before committing to the expense. Unfortunately for the QSC, as these are only sold by theater equipment suppliers, it probably isn't possible to rent one.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for sending this info. I was just playing a vinyl and it happened twice, so the same pattern as before.

If this is truly a power issue, why doesn’t it happen with movies? We watched one last night and one this afternoon, without a single drop or disturbance. PS4 and AppleTV.

The Pioneer SC-05 I had from 2008 had been handling these speakers for 4 years without ever having audio dropouts Via turntable or Spotify.

That is because your old receiver was from 2008, when more receivers would drive low impedance loads. Now the bean counters have produced goods not fit for purpose added a ton of bloat and keep the price about the same. At the heart of the matter though is too many amps, and a lot of processing is in too small a space.

It is very hard to judge the power requirements of any program. The peak power may be, but the average power demand is impossible to guess. I'm sure though your problem is protection being activated. Your receiver is not designed in any way for the load your speakers present, and if you send it in to protection much more you will blow an output stage.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If it is a power issue and the AVR goes into protection mode, the entire AVR would turn off to PROTECT itself.

The sound wouldn’t just intermittently cut in and out, which seems more like a WiFi, streaming, connectivity issue.

 

[LonePine]

@TLS Guy We watched Greyhound through Apple TV+ last night without a single dropout or issue. So if it is truly power related, I‘m not sure why using all 5.1 would have no issues, but stereo drops out.

Here is where I‘m at.

I did a full factory reset - I’m currently listening to a vinyl and waiting to see if there’s a dropout. If it does dropout, then I want to find out if it’s power related. I’ll test my much smaller rear bookshelf speakers as if they were the front left and right.

@AcuDefTechGuy it originally started happening on my analogue signal with a turntable, no WiFi involved.

 

[TLS Guy]

We watched Greyhound through Apple TV+ last night without a single dropout or issue. So if it is truly power related, I‘m not sure why using all 5.1 would have no issues, but stereo drops out.

Here is where I‘m at.

I did a full factory reset - I’m currently listening to a vinyl and waiting to see if there’s a dropout. If it does dropout, then I want to find out if it’s power related. I’ll test my much smaller rear bookshelf speakers as if they were the front left and right.

@AcuDefTechGuy it originally started happening on my analogue signal with a turntable, no WiFi involved.

Good plan.

I'm going to take a guess as to what is going on here. Clearly that receiver does not have adequate specs to power those speakers.

Receivers now have much poorer power amps sections than they used to. There is overwhelming evidence of that.

Next manufacturers do not publish circuits, which they should. So we have to guess what is going on.

Now I suspect that they don't want a bunch of receivers back from frequently blowing up powering lower impedance loads.

So my suspicion is they now have current time sensor circuits, probably optocoupler type of arrangement, that mutes the amps overpowered until safe conditions return, rather then throwing the unit into complete protection mode.

Now in 5.1 mode each amp is handling power, so for the same spl. each amp is pushing less power.

I strongly suspect a sleight of hand here, Marantz have not fessed up to.

The bottom line is that I bet that receiver is behaving the way the designers intended to reduce the returns.

That is exactly what I would do if I was the designer and some bean counter refused to pay for more robust power amps, but told me there were too many warranty claims and to prevent them with minimal price increase.

 

[LonePine]

Update -
After a full factory reset, I used the turntable - the audio dropped out again. Three songs into the record for about 2 seconds. (I‘ve used a new record each time to guarantee it’s not the specific record)

So, I unplugged all the speakers. Then I took my bookshelf speakers and plugged those into the front right and left channel. So I’m only running a 2.1 system. With small speakers.
Audio dropped out.

 

[TLS Guy]

Update -
After a full factory reset, I used the turntable - the audio dropped out again. Three songs into the record for about 2 seconds. (I‘ve used a new record each time to guarantee it’s not the specific record)

So, I unplugged all the speakers. Then I took my bookshelf speakers and plugged those into the front right and left channel. So I’m only running a 2.1 system. With small speakers.
Audio dropped out.

Does it drop out on head phones?

You are going to have to return that unit.

Now you quite likely have damaged the power transistors with those B & W speakers, so that there is excessive current draw from all loads now.

I would return that unit, and when you get the replacement DO NOT connect it to those B & W speakers. Those speakers present one of the worst, if not the worst load in the industry to an amp. Those speakers absolutely require robust amplification not found in ANY current receiver. A low impedance coincident with a negative phase angle in - 60 degree territory is quite exceptional.