as if COVID wasn't bad enough ............

[jinjuku]

Well he still is a fleeing perp either way.

If you are just going to make excuses and ignore the reality that he fired a taser at police after fighting them then no real conversation is to be had.

I'll say it one last time, he wasn't shot for running for gods sake. He was shot for firing a taser at them.

I asked you one simple question: WHEN did the officers right hand go to his service pistol. Was it at the start of the foot chase or when Rayshard turned and fired?

I personally don't care what a limp-dicked Chief does or says. It's an CYA measure. There are protocols for this to take it's course. I think the officer will be cleared and I think a slander, libel, wrongful termination suite would be win-able.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you are just going to make excuses and ignore the reality that he fired a taser at police after fighting them then no real conversation is to be had.

I'll say it one last time, he wasn't shot for running for gods sake. He was shot for firing a taser at them.

I asked you one simple question: WHEN did the officers right hand go to his service pistol. Was it at the start of the foot chase or when Rayshard turned and fired?

I personally don't care what a limp-dicked Chief does or says. It's an CYA measure. There are protocols for this to take it's course. I think the officer will be cleared and I think a slander, libel, wrongful termination suite would be win-able.

You're reading too much into my words. He's fleeing with a taser in his hands and was firing, okay? I'll watch the video again later for your question altho I think it was when the fleeing perp sort of turned and fired before the other officer took action. That's not the point I was concentrating on. I get it that that's what you're concentrating on. We'll see on the rest how it plays out.

 

[jinjuku]

Yes and too many cops have been shooting black guys for no obvious reason, too. They aren't all that well trained in this IMO let alone how often they actually need to be armed.

Castilo was straight up murdered. George Floyd same thing. Freddie Gray, same. Right here in my own back yard Breonna Taylor but that didn't pick up attention for two months.

But all that has nothing to do with Rayshard.

When cops play 'Simon Says'

Charles Kinsey

Can't even eat oatmeal for pete's sake

Trust me I get it... it's why I think this particular situation is a justified shoot.

 

[lovinthehd]

Castilo was straight up murdered. George Floyd same thing. Freddie Gray, same. Right here in my own back yard Breonna Taylor but that didn't pick up attention for two months.

But all that has nothing to do with Rayshard.

When cops play 'Simon Says'

Charles Kinsey

Can't even eat oatmeal for pete's sake

Trust me I get it... it's why I think this particular situation is a justified shoot.

"Nothing to do with" might be a stretch with what's been going on for a very long time between the police and the black community. Reap what you sow.

 

[jinjuku]

"Nothing to do with" might be a stretch with what's been going on for a very long time between the police and the black community. Reap what you sow.

You'll get no argument from me on that count. I've been banging this drum for years. I don't trust cop's any farther than I can throw one. But this particular instance is what it is and the video is damning for Rayshard.

 

[jinjuku]

To your point loveinthehd:

 

[jinjuku]

Edit: my understanding of the law is if a body is drunk, sitting behind the steering wheel, and has the keys in the ignition, that legally constitutes DWI.

The keys can't be in the compartment with them. Even if the keys are laying on the seat they can be charged. If they key's were in the trunk then that's actually OK.

 

[lovinthehd]

The keys can't be in the compartment with them. Even if the keys are laying on the seat they can be charged. If they key's were in the trunk then that's actually OK.

I think someone explained to me that it would have to be in the ignition in California where I used to live. I wonder how much this varies from state to state....

 

[Old Onkyo]

This is the one that causes hand ringing. Man I wish a few of us could get together and rap about some of this stuff. I talk better than I type, but here goes...

If there was ever a doubt I am as Black as the inside of a mailbox, systemic racism is real, and people of color are treated differently by police and society at large.

I am to the point where I won’t engage in any dialogue about George Floyd that doesn’t begin and end with “ he was murdered by the police.


This is not that! I have said for years that the police have a credibility problem. Those that are in favor of police reform need to make sure they maintain objectivity as well as credibility.

This was not George Floyd, Breonna(sp) Taylor, et.al. On it’s face, it Appears to be a legal shooting , that doesn’t make it a good use of force. But what are the police to do? I could Monday morning quarterback this to death, but Mr. Brooks made a decision to drive under the influence of something, passed out behind the wheel of a running car. He was cool calm and collected until the police decided to arrest him, then he really resisted arrest. not a made up resisting where the police are beating a suspect and are yelling Stop Resisting.

He momentarily disabled both officers took a taser, ran, turn back to shoot the police with the taser. Unless there was a significant delay in their response before shooting, I have to ride with the police on this one.

I think the mayor and a lot of people are so caught up in the emotion of the moment the immediate firing of these officers is wrong. The deserve due process minimally. What policies were violated? What about their employment contract? You can fire anybody for any reason, at any time, but will that termination withstand a legal challenge? Don’T be surprised when the courts starts handing out out large judgements to terminated officers.

A lot can Be learned here, but this case is not the poster child for police reform.

No matter where you sit politically, where are the tapes of Similarly situated White people being killed in like fashion?

It’s not the seeds, it’s the soil!

 

[Gmoney]

I don't think there should be plainclothes and I don't think there should be unmarked cars either in standard trafficking patrols. If a cop asks me if I've something to hide because I don't consent to search or seizure then cop's can very well live by that same rule.

True agree, put heres the thing Cops pull you over Cop can make up Twist the law into his Favor by saying Probable cause. I was out and about one night in the wee hours one night because i'm retired. I was just riding around I turned off my headlights accidentally well cop stop me. Got out this Crooked cop proceeded to search me as he is holding both of my hands on top of my head in a Pinch hold he Radioed in for backup. Two other units pull up. I give him Consent to search my vehicle. He ask me before if I had anything in my Pockets told him no as he was searching me he found my pocket knife pulls it out and says I thought you told me you didn't have anything on you told him I forgot I had my pocket knife in my Pocket. If the other two cops hadn't showed up I do believe I would have been Arrested. This Crooked cop was looking to make a Arrest for any reason. They will set You up, they will Twist your words they will lie they will Abuse their power.

 

[Gmoney]

You'll get no argument from me on that count. I've been banging this drum for years. I don't trust cop's any farther than I can throw one. But this particular instance is what it is and the video is damning for Rayshard.

They will Lie they will tell you if you Cooperate it will go easy. Cops could care less if you get shot. Cops are Not your friend. They are doing a job fir payment most if not all are on a power trip. I use to talk to a few of them Don't ever talk to a Cop unless you Absolutely have to. They will use it against you. I had two cops pull me over told me they had me on over 500 counts of speeding. The city I live in has Cameras at every red light. Yeah 500 counts he tells the other cop which happens to be a woman cop He goes I told them We should have picked him up before the city got the Police Department. The two where Sheriffs deputies. So yeah getting setup happens All the time in this Country. All it takes is two to call in and say anything to set you up. With cellphones today Cameras all over the place it's easier than ever to do time for a crime you never committed.

 

[highfigh]

I should have been more specific!
I think the immediate firing of the officer was an understandable move on the part of the Mayor (looking after the overall best interest of the city); however, I think the correct response would be to first have an investigation.

People were calling for instant justice, but immediate firing without an investigation is just folding to the mass of people who are seen as a threat to the department. In a civilian case, instant consequences/penalty impose by the government is seen as unconstitutional and if the officer is found to have been justified, it may be grounds for a wrongful termination case.

I recently watched some use of force simulation videos that were used to teach non-police about reactions during arrests- a CNN personality & other reporters, one with a pastor/activist and other activists. All of them changed their views on how police handle these situations and were very surprised by their responses. ALL of them pulled the trigger and one thing I noticed in the real interactions (vs the videos)- no attacker came at the person in a way that shows the speed and intent of a violent person whose goal is to get away. YouTube has plenty of videos showing police being cold-cocked, beaten, stabbed, shot and driven over by people who acted impulsively and extremely quickly. We don't usually see that but we hear about it after it has gone badly.

 

[highfigh]

I'm still sketchy on the rules for high speed car chases! I think we finally reached the point where those are generally avoided because of the level of danger they pose to society/citizens at large! But it took a long while for cooler heads to prevail on that one!

The guidelines vary from community to community and between agencies, but most will end the chase and go into a monitoring mode, sometimes with aerial support. I turned my police scanner app on yesterday because I have heard so many sirens lately, definitely more since the protesting began- one (another) was within two blocks of my house, the driver was going to fast for the police to continue the chase and he was armed. They called Milwaukee PD to have them continue looking for the guy and when he was near my house, the local PD blocked the street, so he drove through a car wash fence. I heard no less than six chases yesterday during daylight, several more after dark. These morons are going over 100 MPH on city streets!

No, they are not avoided. Watch YouTube for police chases and you'll see all kinds of stupidity, including idiotic PIT maneuvers by the police.

 

[GO-NAD!]

This is the one that causes hand ringing. Man I wish a few of us could get together and rap about some of this stuff. I talk better than I type, but here goes...

If there was ever a doubt I am as Black as the inside of a mailbox, systemic racism is real, and people of color are treated differently by police and society at large.

I am to the point where I won’t engage in any dialogue about George Floyd that doesn’t begin and end with “ he was murdered by the police.


This is not that! I have said for years that the police have a credibility problem. Those that are in favor of police reform need to make sure they maintain objectivity as well as credibility.

This was not George Floyd, Breonna(sp) Taylor, et.al. On it’s face, it Appears to be a legal shooting , that doesn’t make it a good use of force. But what are the police to do? I could Monday morning quarterback this to death, but Mr. Brooks made a decision to drive under the influence of something, passed out behind the wheel of a running car. He was cool calm and collected until the police decided to arrest him, then he really resisted arrest. not a made up resisting where the police are beating a suspect and are yelling Stop Resisting.

He momentarily disabled both officers took a taser, ran, turn back to shoot the police with the taser. Unless there was a significant delay in their response before shooting, I have to ride with the police on this one.

I think the mayor and a lot of people are so caught up in the emotion of the moment the immediate firing of these officers is wrong. The deserve due process minimally. What policies were violated? What about their employment contract? You can fire anybody for any reason, at any time, but will that termination withstand a legal challenge? Don’T be surprised when the courts starts handing out out large judgements to terminated officers.

A lot can Be learned here, but this case is not the poster child for police reform.

No matter where you sit politically, where are the tapes of Similarly situated White people being killed in like fashion?

It’s not the seeds, it’s the soil!

Despite all the statements in this thread agreeing that this was a "good" shooting, I'm still doubtful. Did Brooks act stupidly? Absolutely. Should it have ended in his death though? Why did the officers wait two minutes to attempt first aid?

Was the taser single- or dual-shot? If it was a single-shot, once Brooks has fired it, he is essentially unarmed and much less of a threat. Even if it's a dual-shot, the chances of hitting either officer while drunk and trying to run away are pretty miniscule. And, they could have dropped back out of range of the taser while still pursuing him.

If, by some stroke of "luck" he had hit one of the officers with the taser, the other officer, being armed would have the drop on him, so how was Brooks going to get at a sidearm?

I realize that this isn't a clear case, like George Floyd. But, at best it's piss-poor judgement that ended in a man's death.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Despite all the statements in this thread agreeing that this was a "good" shooting, I'm still doubtful. Did Brooks act stupidly? Absolutely. Should it have ended in his death though? Why did the officers wait two minutes to attempt first aid?

Was the taser single- or dual-shot? If it was a single-shot, once Brooks has fired it, he is essentially unarmed and much less of a threat. Even if it's a dual-shot, the chances of hitting either officer while drunk and trying to run away are pretty miniscule. And, they could have dropped back out of range of the taser while still pursuing him.

If, by some stroke of "luck" he had hit one of the officers with the taser, the other officer, being armed would have the drop on him, so how was Brooks going to get at a sidearm?

I realize that this isn't a clear case, like George Floyd. But, at best it's piss-poor judgement that ended in a man's death.

Just to be clear none of MY statements say, or should be construed as sayIng this was a “good shooting.”

There is a huge difference between legal and good.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Just to be clear none of MY statements say, or should be construed as sayIng this was a “good shooting.”

There is a huge difference between legal and good.

Understood. I put quotation marks around the word to imply that I was using the term loosely.

 

[highfigh]

Despite all the statements in this thread agreeing that this was a "good" shooting, I'm still doubtful. Did Brooks act stupidly? Absolutely. Should it have ended in his death though? Why did the officers wait two minutes to attempt first aid?

Was the taser single- or dual-shot? If it was a single-shot, once Brooks has fired it, he is essentially unarmed and much less of a threat. Even if it's a dual-shot, the chances of hitting either officer while drunk and trying to run away are pretty miniscule. And, they could have dropped back out of range of the taser while still pursuing him.

If, by some stroke of "luck" he had hit one of the officers with the taser, the other officer, being armed would have the drop on him, so how was Brooks going to get at a sidearm?

I realize that this isn't a clear case, like George Floyd. But, at best it's piss-poor judgement that ended in a man's death.

The question of whether the Taser was single or dual shot is basically moot- it's a weapon that can and does immobilize people and as such, if it had been used on the officer and it had successfully immobilized him, Brooks could have grabbed the officer's gun and from there, we can only guess about how far things would have gone. It's only guesswork that says one of the others would have shot him if he had gotten the gun, but the training teaches officers to eliminate the threat. Waiting is deadly. Fighting the police rarely goes well- Chris Rock had a bit about how to survive an encounter with the Police- "Don't f&ck with the Police!".

Gun, knife, Taser, bare hands- all can kill if the person knows how to use them and that makes them a potentially deadly threat.

 

[Gmoney]

This dude was Assaulted just last night In the Atchafalaya basin was Caught Rasalin gators! So cops made him stand post this the photo of him. Cops have a all points bulletin out on him, to be on the lookout. They says he Isn't armed and dangerous. But if you Happen to have any alligator shoes on he may wrestle them off your feet put a tag on your Alligator shoes or boots

 

[Gmoney]

 

[GO-NAD!]

The question of whether the Taser was single or dual shot is basically moot- it's a weapon that can and does immobilize people and as such, if it had been used on the officer and it had successfully immobilized him, Brooks could have grabbed the officer's gun and from there, we can only guess about how far things would have gone. It's only guesswork that says one of the others would have shot him if he had gotten the gun, but the training teaches officers to eliminate the threat. Waiting is deadly. Fighting the police rarely goes well- Chris Rock had a bit about how to survive an encounter with the Police- "Don't f&ck with the Police!".

Gun, knife, Taser, bare hands- all can kill if the person knows how to use them and that makes them a potentially deadly threat.

It's like you never even read my post beyond single or dual shot...