as if COVID wasn't bad enough ............

[Gmoney]

I see your point too and I do think the cops probably would have let it go except for the fact he turns and tries to tase them

Once you do that all bets are off they are going to react on instinct especially since he had the ability at that point to potentially disarm them

And no it still doesn't give them the right to burn down the Wendy's at all. That exscuse is just a dog that will not hunt anymore. I'm really getting tired of hearing that. There is no exscuse for that

Not to mention the fact that the mobs and protests are just super spreaders for COVID which ironically affects black men more proportionally and severely then other races

Not to mention most of the businesses they burn down are in there own community which just weakens there infrastructure talk about cutting off your own nose to spite your own face

Plus how are the people in the Wendy's supposed to know what's wrong with him. He could have been on anything is it even safe to wake him? It's not exactly stable out there so they deserve to get there store burnt for that? Bulls@$!

Especially with a lot of unemployed running around just using there benefits to drink and drug on top of not wearing masks and causing all sorts of problems with COVID?

I'm really growing tired of the protesters even though I support there cause they are starting to do way more damage then good

Sooner or later someone is just going to stop having to act like a bunch of pu@$!ies
And just say look well support you and even allow your protests but hey if you cross this line stuff is going to get shut down HARD

They are just starting to get way with anything right now

Also as far as someone else dealing with him you ever dealt with someone really really drunk or on drugs or both

I do it at work all the time and it's no walk in the park it's not easy to do

It's not that I don't feel compassion for everyone especially with the situation with COVID

But Damn stop running around acting just flat out retarded driving around so drunk you pass out in front of a Wendy's really? you realize being that drunk he could easily have killed some one driving like that right? Where would be those victims protest I wonder? Then playing the victem card when stuff doesn't go your way.

Seriously it's just getting ridiculous act anyway you want regardless of how it impacts others and then throw out the racist card is what this is starting to devolve into

Dude I'm in psychiatric care I want to save everybody lol but Damn you gotta have some limits I just can't let them run around the unit and do whatever they want

Man, that Profession you're in takes a Special kind of person. I have been in a Psych hospital like that. My EX had her Daughter committed, Her Daughter got a hold of some marijuana laced with formaldehyde. Her Daughter stayed there for a month so during the visits only two visitors were allowed up at a time. When I tell you being up on a Ward like that, was like walking into a Haunted house. You never knew What was going to go down. I wouldn't go the last week of her Daughters stay there. They had what the Nurses called nurse techs they would Assist the Psychiatric doctor or a nurse. Most were male techs. The techs job was to most keep Order or keep the noise down from rowdy patients.
I even saw A fight break out on the ward one Patient was a woman they popped her with a shot of what ever. With in Minutes she was Like a sack of potatoes limp within five minutes out cold. From what my EX said that woman was out for two days like that. Ex said it was a Haldol shot. There was this one women took all her Clothes off and came running out of the room naked Funniest sh&&t I ever seen. She Was screaming like a demon lol it took 4 of those Nurse techs to get her down. Than here comes this one Nurse walking pass me and my EX we where sitting visiting her Daughter with this Syringe 3/4 full of Sleepytime dreams. After that visit I told my Ex I wasn't going back with her to visit.
That Psych ward was like a House of horrors Made one flew over the cuckoo's nest look like a daycamp.
Don't know how You do it day in and day out Dan, Your Definitely underpaid they couldn't pay me enough to stay locked up with 25 or so Patients like that. It was at times like a Mad Mob on that Ward. People screaming nurses running out of the office like they were going to fire. Nurse techs standing posted up Like SS Nazi guards ready to beat down any Patient that so much as sneezed wrong. Some of the psych patients would just walk up to you, this one Patient walk straight up to me and my ex Point blank goes I want to F your Daughter. The look on my Ex wifes face went from like eyes with Pity and sorrow to eyes as wide as 50 Cent pieces. I thought my Ex wife's head was gonna explode. With in Seconds two male Nurse techs pounced on him. The whole time that Patient is screaming and hollering as they are dragging him off Obscenities, sounded like someone Speaking in tongues Demonized I tell you. Told my Ex after that little Incident If I worked at a Psychiatric hospital I have to Belt down a few shots of whiskey just to walk up there every day.

 

[highfigh]

This is the only time I've ever seen that as a concern. That was a common thought among right wing conspiracy nuts?

This idea has been mentioned for over 30 years, with both parties in office. It flies a bit under the radar because the media won't usually touch it and because gun control is the typical nose ring used to jerk the public's head as they (media) go from one new event to another.

 

[Danzilla31]

Man, that Profession you're in takes a Special kind of person. I have been in a Psych hospital like that. My EX had her Daughter committed, Her Daughter got a hold of some marijuana laced with formaldehyde. Her Daughter stayed there for a month so during the visits only two visitors were allowed up at a time. When I tell you being up on a Ward like that, was like walking into a Haunted house. You never knew What was going to go down. I wouldn't go the last week of her Daughters stay there. They had what the Nurses called nurse techs they would Assist the Psychiatric doctor or a nurse. Most were male techs. The techs job was to most keep Order or keep the noise down from rowdy patients.
I even saw A fight break out on the ward one Patient was a woman they popped her with a shot of what ever. With in Minutes she was Like a sack of potatoes limp within five minutes out cold. From what my EX said that woman was out for two days like that. Ex said it was a Haldol shot. There was this one women took all her Clothes off and came running out of the room naked Funniest sh&&t I ever seen. She Was screaming like a demon lol it took 4 of those Nurse techs to get it down. Than here comes this one Nurse walking pass me and my EX we where sitting visiting her Daughter with this Syringe 3/4 full of Sleepytime dreams. After that visit I told my Ex I wasn't going back with her to visit.
That Psych ward was like a House of horrors Made one flew over the cuckoo's nest look like a daycamp.
Don't know how You do it day in and day out Dan, Your Definitely underpaid they couldn't pay me enough to stay locked up with 25 or so Patients like that. It was at times like a Mad Mod on that Ward. People screaming nurses running out of the office like they were going to fire. Nurse techs standing posted up Like SS Nazi guards ready to beat down any Patient that so much as sneezed wrong. Some of the psych patients would just walk up to you, this one Patient walk straight up to me and my ex Point blank goes I want to F your Daughter. The look on my Ex wifes face went from like eyes with Pity and sorrow to eyes as wide as 50 Cent pieces. I thought my Ex wife's head was gonna explode. With in Seconds two male Nurse techs pounced on him. The whole time that Patient is screaming and hollering as they are dragging him off Obscenities, sounded like someone Speaking in tongues Demonized I tell you. Told my Ex after that little Incident If I worked at a Psychiatric hospital I have to Belt down a few shots of whiskey just to walk up there every day.

That's a good day for me

 

[Danzilla31]

It went south when they were going to handcuff him, my thought was an offer to drive him home instead before that point....it does get very weird very quickly after that.

Of course there was no right in the burning of the Wendys but mobs are mobs...

Seems not all the burning out there is by blacks either....in Minneapolis that creepy white guy smashing windows that sort of got things going seems not to be the only instance either. People are taking advantage of the situation and its not just the protesters in all cases. I've heard a few people talk about what they did during the 92 riots and how sorry they were for what they did to their own neighborhoods, too. When rage takes over and you're pushed in a corner, things go south. Even our fucktard president dispelled a peaceful protest with force so he could take a stupid picture....great example he sets in so many ways. Is it time to throw gasoline on the fire with force?

LOL many times on dealing with the stoned/drunk. Never had to shoot anyone, tho. It can be hard, sure.

I wasn't there but a guy sleeping in a car I'd try and wake him up and see what's up first.

Not excusing him being behind the wheel to begin with at all. Maybe if he had plowed into a protest they would have beat him to death.

Well being white you probably cannot appreciate what its like in his shoes either...the racist card has been pulled for about 400 years now.

It's one thing to deal with a drunk when it's a friend etc etc it's another to get them to do what you want them to do when they don't want to do it.

As we've noticed in this situation it can go from smooth to south really quick I've been on that side of the fence a lot

Not only this that dude inebriated or not knew what he was doing. You can say yes sir no sir ask to walk home cooperate all the way to the end and bolt right at the end when the cuffs come out? That's on him he made a choice resist arrest violently sh@$ happens

And still even then I'd still support the cop being fired if he'd been given due process but he wasn't

As far as the race card for 400 years that dog won't hunt either people aren't stupid

I may not walk a mile in your shoes but I can understand your situation doesn't give you the right to act anyway you want then just say this is why it happened you still need some personal accountability

If that dude lived so close by and he's drinking just have some one drive him to the Wendy's I've lost friends to drunk drivers so I really have no tolerance. Bottom line you don't get behind the wheel drunk you don't end up in that situation in the first place

That's why the cops by law are supposed to cuff him. Too many have died when they used to be more lenient it's not like they had a choice they're not allowed to drive him home your drunk behind the wheel publicly intoxicated your going to jail and sleeping it off

You don't try to fight with the cops who from the tapes did nothing wrong until possibly the very end after this dude CHOOSES to fight them putting there adrenaline up as well as his he doesn't push them into that difficult split second choice in the first place

One issue I see is Martin Luther King changed the world with an incredible movement and vision

But people's perceptions over time changed so part of his vision was partly realized the problem that COVID has exposed is the institutions and policies that had been developed up to that point in time hadn't changed still haven't changed

Do we need some reform Yes on police yes even in some other areas ABSOLUTELY

Do I think it applies in this situation? Like you guys have been saying this one is weird it's not as clear cut I'm choosing to side with no
But I could be wrong hard to tell since it won't be investigated

So do I support the cause? ABSOLUTELY

Do I think people are trying to exploit it right now have no accountability for there behaviour then pull it out?

YES I think that's starting to happen

Am I getting tired of it rapidly when it's being used this way YES

That's just where I'm at on this but I do see your points too.

 

[Danzilla31]

P.S. I still think COVID and the lockdown are playing a huge role not in the racial issues that have been exposed but in the crazy behavior

People finally are getting off lockdown and are just acting a fool no matter what color they are

It's like they got all this pent up stuff and it's coming out with the drinking and drugging and other behaviours were seeing

It's crazy what social isolation seems to do to people even when people choose to do it for the greater good

 

[KEW]

I still don't understand the thought process about shooting him myself, tired or no. I know it's traditional for police to be walking gear depositories on their belts, but in talking to a retired cop friend of mine last night he thought the firing of the officer was justified.

Overall, I've pretty much the same thoughts as Trevor Noah in this

I should have been more specific!
I think the immediate firing of the officer was an understandable move on the part of the Mayor (looking after the overall best interest of the city); however, I think the correct response would be to first have an investigation.

Fact: It is standard police training that if someone pulls a taser on a cop, they treat it like a gun. I'm surprised your friend did not mention that. However, I think scrutiny might reveal it is the training that is at fault as much or more than the officer. As Dan points out, becoming combative - taking a weapon from an officer and threatening the officer with it is a dumbass move! If he had dropped the taser as he was running away, then I would see this as a gratuitous shooting of a black man. I agree with Trevor that we should allow some leniency when a body is drunk, but once they are pointing a weapon at you (and within range, which he was) that leniency was just forfeited!
Why did they chase him? What does their training say about that?
This was not a Floyd or Arbery type event where the victim was being compliant or innocent.
When Brooks realized he was probably going to jail was when he "freaked". Rumor is that he was one of the low level offenders released because of Covid-19. However, I will not get the facts until tomorrow.

But until the details are known, this seems like it may be an officer doing what he had been trained to do. If that is the case, then we are doing the exact wrong thing which is getting rid of an individual rather than addressing the systemic root cause of the problem!

Edit: my understanding of the law is if a body is drunk, sitting behind the steering wheel, and has the keys in the ignition, that legally constitutes DWI. I like to think the police have some room for judgement on this, but don't know if they are told to use their judgement. Much of the purpose of training is to remove the variability that comes from individual judgement. This is not really a major factor in this case where he obviously had driven drunk into the Wendy's drive-thru, but on another day, sitting in the car to run the AC and or listen to music could get you busted.
One time my cousin and several of us were drinking and he had us all come out and listen to his new car stereo (which was pretty impressive). Technically, this constituted DWI because he sat in the car. I'm wondering if we should look at the law and how it is written.
I agree with Trevor, ideally they could have parked his car for him and driven him home (or to his sisters if it is closer). That is what Andy would have done with Otis! Of course, he should have fired Barney Fife early on! Barney was a hot-head and bound to do something dumb. Maybe we should formally institute a program where certain cops have to carry (only one) bullet in their shirt pocket! That kept Mayberry safe all of those years!

 

[Danzilla31]

I should have been more specific!
I think the immediate firing of the officer was an understandable move on the part of the Mayor (looking after the overall best interest of the city); however, I think the correct response would be to first have an investigation.

Fact: It is standard police training that if someone pulls a taser on a cop, they treat it like a gun. I'm surprised your friend did not mention that. However, I think scrutiny might reveal it is the training that is at fault as much or more than the officer. As Dan points out, becoming combative - taking a weapon from an officer and threatening the officer with it is a dumbass move.
Why did they chase him? What does their training say about that?
This was not a Floyd or Arbery type event where the victim was being compliant or innocent.
When Brooks realized he was probably going to jail was when he "freaked". Rumor is that he was one of the low level offenders released because of Covid-19. However, I will not get the facts until tomorrow.

But until the details are known, this seems like it may be an officer doing what he had been trained to do. If that is the case, then we are doing the exact wrong thing which is getting rid of an individual rather than addressing the systemic root cause of the problem!

Yeah this situation is a tough one like people have stated this one is weird and is just well it's just hard to know what to think

I hope Lovin doesn't feel that I have been trying to argue with him

It's just really a hard call that's why I wish there'd been an investigation on this one

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah this situation is a tough one like people have stated this one is weird and is just well it's just hard to know what to think

I hope Lovin doesn't feel that I have been trying to argue with him

It's just really a hard call that's why I wish there'd been an investigation on this one

They know he has no gun. A better choice after it gets to that point is to not fire a gun on someone running away from you who is armed with only a tazer and pursue at a safe distance until more backup arrives. You can find the suspect later if they slip away.

 

[KEW]

That's what I've discussed with father in law at length. Why is it that deadly force is used when it seems that alternatives aren't even considered? He said his training tells him to shoot, but his human side tells him different. These poor cops are literally "doing their job" which is horrifying to the rest of us.

Exactly!
How much lassitude does your father-in-law have to alter his actions from the training?
Following the training should always be the safest thing to do and the reflex (if not, fix the training!), but if his human side tells him different can he pursue that? I suspect career-wise, he is on his own if it turns out bad!
It is indeed a difficult problem. On the one hand, you want to train for the worst case scenario, but on the other, you should probably not go into every scenario with a worst case mentality!
This is a baby step when big change is needed, but perhaps a reality check of statistics on how often the worst case is reality should be part of the training.

I get it - the "best" training for these guys is where the cop saves the day in a life or death decision. Those are the lessons everybody talks about afterwards.
This may be an important component of the problem. Many of these are macho guys who signed up (partly) to be heroes and there may (even subconsciously) be a small part of them that is hopeful that their "moment of glory" will come today! So is it worthy of consideration that they may at some level be provoking things to see if they blow up to the level of heroes (or at least a good "war story" of what a bad-ass you are)? Again, this may or may not be a conscious behavior!

Perhaps they need to start a new training philosophy:
"Be prepared for the worst case, but embrace boredom!"

 

[KEW]

They know he has no gun. A better choice after it gets to that point is to not fire a gun on someone running away from you who is armed with only a tazer and pursue at a safe distance until more backup arrives. You can find the suspect later if they slip away.

I'm still sketchy on the rules for high speed car chases! I think we finally reached the point where those are generally avoided because of the level of danger they pose to society/citizens at large! But it took a long while for cooler heads to prevail on that one!

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah this situation is a tough one like people have stated this one is weird and is just well it's just hard to know what to think

I hope Lovin doesn't feel that I have been trying to argue with him

It's just really a hard call that's why I wish there'd been an investigation on this one

Of course not, you're throwing your thoughts out there and I'm offering mine. Whether we agree or not isn't really important, hell we don't have all the facts ourselves either. I do remember the police chief supposedly indicated upon review of the video that the tazer didn't meet their deadly force requirement, tho, thus the firing. That may have been more to keep a media shitstorm away what with had happened elsewhere at this time to an extent, too. Not like all police are the same or receive the same training or have the same policies in place across all municipalities either....and it seems training is seriously lacking either way.

 

[KEW]

Not like all police are the same or receive the same training or have the same policies in place across all municipalities either....and it seems training is seriously lacking either way.

I am pretty sure training is standardized at least within a state. However, I definitely see police from NYC deciding to kick it down a notch and come to work in one of the less "hot" cities outside of Atlanta! I don't believe they see any special training, but am not sure on that!

 

[Mikado463]

Of course not, you're throwing your thoughts out there and I'm offering mine. Whether we agree or not isn't really important, hell we don't have all the facts ourselves either. I do remember the police chief supposedly indicated upon review of the video that the tazer didn't meet their deadly force requirement, tho, thus the firing. That may have been more to keep a media shitstorm away what with had happened elsewhere at this time to an extent, too. Not like all police are the same or receive the same training or have the same policies in place across all municipalities either....and it seems training is seriously lacking either way.

I'm not in agreement with the firing without an investigation and I wonder what the Chiefs resignation timing means in all this as well. Regardless while the perp should not have been killed he was an idiot nonetheless.

 

[lovinthehd]

Back to one point, what due process is needed in the case of the cop being fired? I've never had a job where I couldn't be fired for reasons of the employer. When I was an employer I could fire people for actions I thought harmful to the company (except the time I was managing a teamsters crew, that was a more involved process due to contract).

There's a recent story in San Francisco in a wealthy neighborhood (Pacific Heights if you're familiar with The City) where a long time resident was writing "black lives matter" on his retaining wall in chalk and a neighboring couple accused him of not living there and defacing property; his crime was apparently that the white couple didn't know their neighbor had lived there for 18 years but did see he was of color (Filipino in this case). The white couple called the cops (who rolled up and recognized him and just left accordingly). The wife did most of the mouthing off but her husband joined in and was fired from a very nice job as a result (and she has shut down her own business website and social media since). I don't see that the husband particularly deserved due process for a lack of judgement on his part. Similar to the gal in NYC in Central Park calling the police when a black guy asked her to comply with the rules of the park and put a leash on her dog, she got fired too. White privelege has deep roots in this country.

 

[Danzilla31]

Back to one point, what due process is needed in the case of the cop being fired? I've never had a job where I couldn't be fired for reasons of the employer. When I was an employer I could fire people for actions I thought harmful to the company (except the time I was managing a teamsters crew, that was a more involved process due to contract).

There's a recent story in San Francisco in a wealthy neighborhood (Pacific Heights if you're familiar with The City) where a long time resident was writing "black lives matter" on his retaining wall in chalk and a neighboring couple accused him of not living there and defacing property; his crime was apparently that the white couple didn't know their neighbor had lived there for 18 years but did see he was of color (Filipino in this case). The white couple called the cops (who rolled up and recognized him and just left accordingly). The wife did most of the mouthing off but her husband joined in and was fired from a very nice job as a result (and she has shut down her own business website and social media since). I don't see that the husband particularly deserved due process for a lack of judgement on his part. Similar to the gal in NYC in Central Park calling the police when a black guy asked her to comply with the rules of the park and put a leash on her dog, she got fired too. White privelege has deep roots in this country.

That is a good point and one I never thought of. What does constitute a cop being fired from his job? I wonder if it's such a complicated process due to the police unions any reform is going to be a major pain in the butt with them around

Which makes me think of another thought how do you break up unions like those when they become so powerful is there even a way to do so?

 

[jinjuku]

I still don't understand the thought process about shooting him myself, tired or no. I know it's traditional for police to be walking gear depositories on their belts, but in talking to a retired cop friend of mine last night he thought the firing of the officer was justified.

Overall, I've pretty much the same thoughts as Trevor Noah in this

I can't agree with this at all. If a cop is placed in what can be considered imminent harm they are 100% allowed to use deadly force.

Screw Trevor Noah. There are many topics I wouldn't be afraid to do toe to toe with him on.

 

[lovinthehd]

I can't agree with this at all. If a cop is placed in what can be considered imminent harm they are 100% allowed to use deadly force.

Screw Trevor Noah. There are many topics I wouldn't be afraid to do toe to toe with him on.

View attachment 37207

What's the picture for? Is that the policy of this particular police force? The officer's opinion can't be questioned/challenged? I don't know then why their chief didn't think it was justified and fired the officer. The results speak for themselves to a large extent.

 

[lovinthehd]

That is a good point and one I never thought of. What does constitute a cop being fired from his job? I wonder if it's such a complicated process due to the police unions any reform is going to be a major pain in the butt with them around

Which makes me think of another thought how do you break up unions like those when they become so powerful is there even a way to do so?

That is definitely something being discussed all across the country. Is the Atlanta force protected from such firings due their union contract? I don't know....

 

[lovinthehd]

Now, where it comes to any criminal charges filed against the officer, that indeed would be subject to due process.

 

[Gmoney]

Anyone Watch the news about NY Disbanding Plainclothes police units. 600 or more? Thoughts on that? Plus the President signing that reform bill today? Who really believes anything will really change? I feel unless change don't come from our Law makers whats going to change of the system that's set up now. Now a 92 years old woman was knocked down by a young man He's a convicted sex offender and lives in a halfway house or shelter that Assaulted the 92-year-old woman where is the Mad Mobs for her?