Ascend Acoustic Ribbon Towers

[Verdinut]

Oh, imaging. Holy crap do these towers have precise imaging! It's so good I'm thinking about going phantom mode and use my Sierra 2s as surrounds.

That's the advantage of ribbon tweeters.

 

[Pogre]

I'm listening to "Keith Don't Go" by Nils Lofgren right now and it sounds like the guitar is here in the living room with me. Every texture and nuance is there. I've been around plenty of live music growing up with both parents in bands and know what certain instruments sound like. My dad played guitar and I used to play drums.

Now I'm really getting into the meat of things and hearing what I want to hear from these speakers. This is pretty mind blowing. I've even dialed my subs back a little bit. Still using 80 hz crossover, but only bumping levels 2 dB.

 

[panteragstk]

That's the advantage of ribbon tweeters.

Love me some ribbon tweeters. Haven't owned any...yet. Still got my eye on an ER18MTM build with ribbons. That's another thread.

 

[panteragstk]

I'm still adjusting to the new look. The Ultras definitely make a bigger, flashier visual statement and I'd be lying if I said that's not part of their appeal for me (and my wife, believe it or not... she misses the visual impact of the Ultras too!). This is audio tho, and sq ranks above aesthetics in my book and my wife and I both like the sound of the Sierras, even if we're unable to put a finger exactly on it.

As far as dynamic range these new towers seem to have more than enough where it counts. When crossed over to the subs they sound every bit as capable as the Ultras. Even full range they're no joke, but that is where the Ultras pull ahead. The Sierras have no problems filling the room with decent bass, but the Ultras are definitely more capable of rattling the room, push come to shove. I hardly ever got into that tho, because I'm always using my subs so the deeper extension of the Ultras was going to waste anyway.

I've gotten pretty good using REW and the mini to dial my bass in and I feel like I wanna tackle the rest of the FR using the app with ratbuddyssey. If I can get that figured out and get good results I might pull the mini altogether. I shot Peng a pm to see if he's available to help get me started. I managed to get ratbuddyssey downloaded and pulled up my ady file, but that's as far as I got. I have no idea what I'm doing after that!

Oh, imaging. Holy crap do these towers have precise imaging! It's so good I'm thinking about going phantom mode and use my Sierra 2s as surrounds.

So I had a good phantom image with my office setup, but some shows had dialog issues so I ended up needing a center (thanks again @KEW).

Hopefully it works out for you though. Your speakers are...uhh...light-years ahead of mine.

 

[rom3]

@Pogre - glad to see you're enjoying those Sierra towers, I know I do!

I have started using Ratbuddyssey to help adjust my Audyssey curve and had a few tips for you (and anyone else) to get started. This really opens up so many possibilities. I hope the app itself incorporates these features one day.

Below is my L/R/C custom curve from the MultiEQ app. I've always found Audyssey to be too aggressive in the upper mid-range for my taste so have experimented with limiting correction, but that has its pluses and minuses as well. Just playing around one day I tried a few custom curves either dragging the bass upward or in this case dragging the mid-range downward (Audyssey already rolls off the treble which I'm fine with as it actually follows the Sierra's natural rolloff when verified with REW. I am loving the result now!

After saving your changes in the MultiEQ app, upload it to Drive or similar, email, whatever to get it to your PC. Open the Ratbuddyssey app then open your calibration file. Below is a screenshot (I may be on an older version so may not look exactly like yours):

Select which speaker/channel you would like to work with at the upper left (green box)
In the red box is shown the control points and adjustments that were made in the MultiEQ app.
You can add more control points by entering frequency in Hz and dB to add/cut in the two boxes below the already listed items and click the "add" button.

Also over to the lower-right in the blue box you can select each mic position or any combination that Audyssey measured. Very helpful to me as I was using the last 2 measurement points behind my seating position as suggested on the measuring process. Checking on the various boxes (1-8) to see the different curves measured, I could see that those were very different from the rest, so I decided to do a new measurement without doing any behind the MLP and got better results.

Leave all of the other settings as they are. There is a "bug" that has the "Flat" radio button selected instead of "Reference", leave it on "Flat".

Save the file (can rename/save as to preserve the original) and transfer back to your tablet/phone. On my tablet (Android) the file should be saved to the "Internal Storage/MultEQ Editor" folder.

Open the file in the MultiEQ app and verify your changes in the "Room Correction Results" section. You should see the predicted response attempt to follow your control points that were made in Ratbuddyssey. Save the file and upload to your AVR.

Good luck!

 

[Mpsafranski]

Hey just curious @Pogre RE imaging, when you’re doing your critical listening is it directly on axis?

Ive had to play a bit more than usual to find the perfect angle where everything just locks in place—my left speaker is only about 15” from the side wall and the right speaker is open to another room. I think the broad dispersion of the ribbons and the reflections from the left side wall is my issue.
Just curious what you’ve found!

 

[shadyJ]

Hey just curious @Pogre RE imaging, when you’re doing your critical listening is it directly on axis?

Ive had to play a bit more than usual to find the perfect angle where everything just locks in place—my left speaker is only about 15” from the side wall and the right speaker is open to another room. I think the broad dispersion of the ribbons and the reflections from the left side wall is my issue.
Just curious what you’ve found!

That would absolutely be an issue. In such cases, if you are able to, treat the walled surface with acoustic absorption. That should make the left side behave more like the right side and provide a more even sound between the two speakers.

 

[Mpsafranski]

Thanks @shadyJ i will definitely look into a panel!

 

[Pogre]

@Pogre - glad to see you're enjoying those Sierra towers, I know I do!

I have started using Ratbuddyssey to help adjust my Audyssey curve and had a few tips for you (and anyone else) to get started. This really opens up so many possibilities. I hope the app itself incorporates these features one day.

Below is my L/R/C custom curve from the MultiEQ app. I've always found Audyssey to be too aggressive in the upper mid-range for my taste so have experimented with limiting correction, but that has its pluses and minuses as well. Just playing around one day I tried a few custom curves either dragging the bass upward or in this case dragging the mid-range downward (Audyssey already rolls off the treble which I'm fine with as it actually follows the Sierra's natural rolloff when verified with REW. I am loving the result now!
View attachment 36826

After saving your changes in the MultiEQ app, upload it to Drive or similar, email, whatever to get it to your PC. Open the Ratbuddyssey app then open your calibration file. Below is a screenshot (I may be on an older version so may not look exactly like yours):
View attachment 36827
Select which speaker/channel you would like to work with at the upper left (green box)
In the red box is shown the control points and adjustments that were made in the MultiEQ app.
You can add more control points by entering frequency in Hz and dB to add/cut in the two boxes below the already listed items and click the "add" button.

Also over to the lower-right in the blue box you can select each mic position or any combination that Audyssey measured. Very helpful to me as I was using the last 2 measurement points behind my seating position as suggested on the measuring process. Checking on the various boxes (1-8) to see the different curves measured, I could see that those were very different from the rest, so I decided to do a new measurement without doing any behind the MLP and got better results.

Leave all of the other settings as they are. There is a "bug" that has the "Flat" radio button selected instead of "Reference", leave it on "Flat".

Save the file (can rename/save as to preserve the original) and transfer back to your tablet/phone. On my tablet (Android) the file should be saved to the "Internal Storage/MultEQ Editor" folder.

Open the file in the MultiEQ app and verify your changes in the "Room Correction Results" section. You should see the predicted response attempt to follow your control points that were made in Ratbuddyssey. Save the file and upload to your AVR.

Good luck!

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I'm looking for! I'm able to pull up my file on ratbuddyssey, no problem. I just don't know what to do after that.

The curve you posted looks like it could be attained without ratbuddyssey tho. I'm after some serious, tight adjustments like @PENG was able to achieve like these images.

From what I'm seeing, that looks like a lot to work!

 

[Pogre]

Hey just curious @Pogre RE imaging, when you’re doing your critical listening is it directly on axis?

Ive had to play a bit more than usual to find the perfect angle where everything just locks in place—my left speaker is only about 15” from the side wall and the right speaker is open to another room. I think the broad dispersion of the ribbons and the reflections from the left side wall is my issue.
Just curious what you’ve found!

Yeah, like Shady said, being close to a wall can definitely muck things up for your image. My left speaker is closest to a side wall at 2 feet. I'm using a fair amount of toe in also. Not pointing directly at me but moreso than not. I can still see the inside panels of both speakers from where I sit.

 

[rom3]

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I'm looking for! I'm able to pull up my file on ratbuddyssey, no problem. I just don't know what to do after that.

The curve you posted looks like it could be attained without ratbuddyssey tho. I'm after some serious, tight adjustments like @PENG was able to achieve like these images.

View attachment 36830View attachment 36832

From what I'm seeing, that looks like a lot to work!

Right, my curve example was just to show what the control points look like in RB. If you load up a file with no custom curve edits, there will be no control points in RB listed. I'm pretty happy with the results of Audyssey without having to add a lot of edits, so in my case, just lowering a broad range did the trick for me.

Since the app and RB cannot be used exactly like a PEQ, you will need to use probably 3 control points per adjustment for narrow adjustments. Ie. there is no "Q" to let you tell it how wide you want the change to be, so use 1 control point below and one above the frequency you're trying to change with the middle control point being the actual adjustment.

Something like:
#1 200Hz 0dB
#2 300Hz +3dB
#3 400Hz 0dB

You may also have to "fight" against Audyssey's pre-programmed overarching curve depending on the type of adjustment you're trying to make (ie. the rolloff up high and down low. To check how things are looking, save your edits and transfer back to MultEQ app and look in the "room correction results" section. Scroll through all speakers/channels to let it compute the new predicted curve. If something doesn't look right, go back to RB and try again.

 

[Pogre]

Goddamnit! I put the f**kin grilles on upside down last night!

The other one isn't as bad as this one. It's slowly bouncing back. Did I just do permanent damage? Grrrr!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Goddamnit! I put the f**kin grilles on upside down last night!

View attachment 36833

The other one isn't as bad as this one. It's slowly bouncing back. Did I just do permanent damage? Grrrr!

Hmm. Never thought a grille could do that since this has never happened to me.

 

[KEW]

Goddamnit! I put the f**kin grilles on upside down last night!

View attachment 36833

The other one isn't as bad as this one. It's slowly bouncing back. Did I just do permanent damage? Grrrr!

That sucks!
It is a shame that they have a grill mounting system that allows that (often the location of mounting point forces only correct installation or the surround is not sticking out like that.
That is strange damage! I generally assume surrounds to be very pliable and am surprised it has taken such a set. Give it more time.

 

[ryanosaur]

Goddamnit! I put the f**kin grilles on upside down last night!

View attachment 36833

The other one isn't as bad as this one. It's slowly bouncing back. Did I just do permanent damage? Grrrr!

What are Grilles?

They should be fine, I'd think, as long as you don't repeat consistently. I would think it might return to normal if given some time. You can always email Dave... I suspect this wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

 

[Pogre]

It's almost completely back to normal now, and yeah, it never occurred to me that a grille would smush the surround like that. That's something that shouldn't be possible, imo. Bad on me for doing it, but poop.

 

[Pogre]

What are Grilles?

They should be fine, I'd think, as long as you don't repeat consistently. I would think it might return to normal if given some time. You can always email Dave... I suspect this wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

Fortunately I took them off before I played anything. This is one of the grilles beside the tower. I have the grille oriented correctly in the image. I put it on upside down last night.

 

[Pogre]

Just a quick update. I don't think there's any permanent damage. It's almost returned completely back to normal. I have a feeling it's fine.

It's to where if I didn't know it was there I probably wouldn't even notice it now.

 

[John Galt]

Goddamnit! I put the f**kin grilles on upside down last night!

View attachment 36833

The other one isn't as bad as this one. It's slowly bouncing back. Did I just do permanent damage? Grrrr!

I did the same thing the first day. That surround imprint went away completely quite quickly once I put the grill on the right way.

I now have a label on the inside of each grill saying ‘UP’. They really should have a sticker like this from Ascend IMO, or make the magnet polarity such that putting it on upside down is impossible.

 

[Pogre]

I did the same thing the first day. That surround imprint went away completely quite quickly once I put the grill on the right way.

I now have a label on the inside of each grill saying ‘UP’. They really should have a sticker like this from Ascend IMO, or make the magnet polarity such that putting it on upside down is impossible.

Is it me, or does the way the cutouts are make it a little confusing as to which way is up? I had them oriented correctly when I picked them up to put them on and actually flipped them because it didn't look right to me.

I'll never confuse it again tho, that's for sure. The image is welded into my brain now, lol.