Coronavirus

[highfigh]

Just responding to your post about having a candidate from the population of what was it 325 million above? After you subtract a whole bunch, it is far from a pool of 325 million, that is all it was. So, the pool is way less to pick from.

Think about the future.

 

[highfigh]

Sometimes we elect constitutional scholars, and sometimes we elect reality TV stars.

It doesn't say anything about the candidates' qualifications, or lack thereof. We had an actor too, but he had been Governor of California before POTUS.

Maybe it's time for a computer generated candidate with artificial intelligence, emotional qualities and ideas that are chosen by a bi-partisan think tank.

 

[Trell]

It doesn't say anything about the candidates' qualifications, or lack thereof. We had an actor too, but he had been Governor of California before POTUS.

Maybe it's time for a computer generated candidate with artificial intelligence, emotional qualities and ideas that are chosen by a bi-partisan think tank.

Why just 'bi-partisan'? Besides, I'm not sure that there is that much thinking going on in a think tank.

 

[highfigh]

Moderate liberals (as opposed to centrists)? Yes.

If you want to see the left version of the people who want to outlaw all abortions, put the ten commandments on courthouses, allow religious tests in the public and private sector (think: allow government agents to refuse to marry a homosexual couple), pass laws outlawing homosexuality, etc; you'd be looking for a liberal that wanted ban meat, ban all firearms, outlaw animal testing, perhaps institute communism (which would indeed be radical left).

Instead we see people saying "we should regulate stuff, have a comprehensive social safety net, and progressive taxes" as "non-moderate". Even universal income, at this point, I'd not call more extreme than Social Security was.

AOC and Bernie are not moderate.

Bernie Sanders: Supporting Abortions Up to Birth is an "Essential Part of Being a Democrat" - LifeNews.com

Bernie Sanders told pro-life Democrats that they are not welcome Saturday, emphasizing that supporting abortion is an “essential part of being a Democrat.” CNS News reports the Vermont senator and Democrat presidential candidate made the comment during a presidential forum in Concord, New...

www.lifenews.com

Look at the year Social Security was enacted and by whom- 1935, by FDR, in the middle of the Great Depression.

We SHOULD regulate stuff, just not everything and not to the point where someone has to ask for permission to do something that only matters to some wingnut who wants to control everything.

You'll need to define 'comprehensive safety net'- SS is supposed to cover people who paid into the system, but a super liberal would want it to cover people who never paid in, non-citizens and people who aren't even here legally.

O'Rourke wants to confiscate guns and require people to sell them to the government. Not all guns, but AR and AK-style. Yes, they have been used in terrible slaughters, but there are 16 million of them in the US and only used occasionally- far more are killed with handguns in the hands of people who are legally ineligible to possess them and by people who don't know how to handle them safely.

That's not saying their use is OK in any way, but there are too many ways to buy guns illegally, buy parts to build them and let's not forget those who are willing to buy them illegally, especially those who aren't legally eligible to possess guns of any kind (like the guy in Milwaukee who, just yesterday, killed his 41 year old girlfriend and four others who were between 14 and 19 years of age).

From https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/fbi-more-people-killed-with-knives-hammers-clubs-and-even-feet-than-rifles-in-2018/.

"The metrics show that there were a total of 1,515 deaths by knives or other cutting instruments last year. Compare that against 297 people killed by rifles.". That 297 is down from 400 in 2017.

That's ALL rifles, not just AR/AK style.

From the same link, "Here’s another number that will blow your mind. The data also shows that in 2018, there were 672 deaths from “fists, feet and other ‘personal weapons’” – which is once again more than with rifles.".

This is a people problem, same as COVID transmissions in too many cases. People refuse to stay at home, so they go out and pass it to others, then blame someone else for not stopping them.

 

[JerryLove]

It doesn't say anything about the candidates' qualifications, or lack thereof. We had an actor too, but he had been Governor of California before POTUS.

Without asserting you listed it as a qualification, you said " Considering the way history and civics are taught now, it will be a freaking miracle if they can find a candidate who knows anything about the country pre-1990 in 25 years. "

A constitutional scholar, someone who studies the Constitution, which was created in 1776 and has been in use since, would (of necessity) know something about the country pre-1990.

AOC and Bernie are not moderate.

Yes, they are.

You'll need to define 'comprehensive safety net'- SS is supposed to cover people who paid into the system

OK. I'm going to stop my response right here; because this is a very basic fact and you've got it entirely wrong.

SS is not supposed to cover "people who paid into the system".

The first year SS was in place: it paid out to senior citizens who had never contributed (because it hadn't existed).

I received SS as a child because of the loss of my parent. I'd never paid into the system at that point; and what I received wasn't based on what that parent (at 28) had paid into the system either.

The disabled get it too.

You don't understand the systems you are passing judgments based on.

 

[highfigh]

Why just 'bi-partisan'? Besides, I'm not sure that there is that much thinking going on in a think tank.

Do you want Wiccans, plushies and others who make up a tiny percentage of the population, too?

Without asserting you listed it as a qualification, you said " Considering the way history and civics are taught now, it will be a freaking miracle if they can find a candidate who knows anything about the country pre-1990 in 25 years. "

A constitutional scholar, someone who studies the Constitution, which was created in 1776 and has been in use since, would (of necessity) know something about the country pre-1990.


Yes, they are.


OK. I'm going to stop my response right here; because this is a very basic fact and you've got it entirely wrong.

SS is not supposed to cover "people who paid into the system".

The first year SS was in place: it paid out to senior citizens who had never contributed (because it hadn't existed).

I received SS as a child because of the loss of my parent. I'd never paid into the system at that point; and what I received wasn't based on what that parent (at 28) had paid into the system either.

The disabled get it too.

You don't understand the systems you are passing judgments based on.

I'm not passing judgement on SS and they clearly designed it for survivors to receive benefits but the problem is that it wasn't adjusted well, to remain solvent with much larger population and longer life expectancy than the original plan was designed for.

Damn. 28 is just too young. Sorry to see that.

 

[Dan]

The graph for New York City is especially striking:

View attachment 35749

The non covid-19 part of the spike is multifactorial but I think two main factors dominate. Just my medical opinion, there are few facts. One is uncounted covid deaths especially at home. Dome of these will be miscounted as strokes and heart attacks (MI) since the virus has shown an alarming tendency to make one hypercoagulable (extremely prone to blood clots). Inpatients with covid-19 are now being aggresively placed on blood thinners. Personally the number of ultrasounds I read for clots in the legs is the only thing I am doing more of than before. Meanwhile, people are afraid to go to the ER with things that would normally send them in. These include the regular stroke and MI cases as well as other typical emergencies such as appendicitis, bowel obstruction etc. These have nearly disappeared and when seen are usually much more advanced than usual, leading to worse outcomes. Talking to my friends around the country they are all experiencing the same thing. There may be other reasons I haven't thought of but violent crime and motor vehicle fatalities are way down.

Down the line there will also probably be an increase in cancer mortality as delayed care will result in later stage disease when the patients first present leading to poorer survival as well. As noted elsewhere (the other nonpolitical thread) the press is reporting on healthcare worker suicides in NYC. We are all experiencing mental health stress and some aren't up to managing it in the current environment so suicides must be rising.

My point I guess is that the total effect of the pandemic will be felt for years in lives lost. We still don't know what the long term effects of surviving a severe Covid-19 infection are. There may be increased susceptibility to other diseases.

 

[Trell]

Do you want Wiccans, plushies and others who make up a tiny percentage of the population, too?

 

[Trell]

I'm not passing judgement on SS and they clearly designed it for survivors to receive benefits but the problem is that it wasn't adjusted well, to remain solvent with much larger population and longer life expectancy than the original plan was designed for.

Not really.

Life Expectancy for Social Security:

"If we look at life expectancy statistics from the 1930s we might come to the conclusion that the Social Security program was designed in such a way that people would work for many years paying in taxes, but would not live long enough to collect benefits. Life expectancy at birth in 1930 was indeed only 58 for men and 62 for women, and the retirement age was 65. But life expectancy at birth in the early decades of the 20th century was low due mainly to high infant mortality, and someone who died as a child would never have worked and paid into Social Security. A more appropriate measure is probably life expectancy after attainment of adulthood.​

​

As Table 1 shows, the majority of Americans who made it to adulthood could expect to live to 65, and those who did live to 65 could look forward to collecting benefits for many years into the future. So we can observe that for men, for example, almost 54% of the them could expect to live to age 65 if they survived to age 21, and men who attained age 65 could expect to collect Social Security benefits for almost 13 years (and the numbers are even higher for women).​

​

Also, it should be noted that there were already 7.8 million Americans age 65 or older in 1935 (cf. Table 2), so there was a large and growing population of people who could receive Social Security. Indeed, the actuarial estimates used by the Committee on Economic Security (CES) in designing the Social Security program projected that there would be 8.3 million Americans age 65 or older by 1940 (when monthly benefits started). So Social Security was not designed in such a way that few people would collect the benefits.​

​

As Table 1 indicates, the average life expectancy at age 65 (i.e., the number of years a person could be expected to receive unreduced Social Security retirement benefits) has increased a modest 5 years (on average) since 1940. So, for example, men attaining 65 in 1990 can expect to live for 15.3 years compared to 12.7 years for men attaining 65 back in 1940.​

​

(Increases in life expectancy are a factor in the long-range financing of Social Security; but other factors, such as the sheer size of the "baby boom" generation, and the relative proportion of workers to beneficiaries, are larger determinants of Social Security's future financial condition.)"​

​

 

[JerryLove]

I'm not passing judgement on SS and they clearly designed it for survivors to receive benefits but the problem is that it wasn't adjusted well, to remain solvent with much larger population and longer life expectancy than the original plan was designed for.

Trell mostly covered this, but it goes farther than that.

Social Security History

But it gets worse. You see. We've been collecting money for the SS trust fund, but there's not the funds in there (because rather than deposit the money, we spend it on other things and give SS IOUs). So the shortfall is man-made by successive governments that have refused, even in times of prosperity, to put funds collected for SS in SS.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Do you want Wiccans, plushies and others who make up a tiny percentage of the population, too?
.

So then, you are excluding the independent party? How about the green or libertarians? Now you are talking about at least a 5 party committee.
Or, which bipartisan party did you really mean?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Think about the future.

I am. What realistic future are you thinking or hoping for? And, how far into the future?
I may not be here by then.

ps, how and why would that bipartisan committee be different from what we have.
People volunteer and run from different parties and the people vote for their preference. Unfortunately the electoral college is in the way.
Perhaps the simple but not easy answer is to eliminate that electoral college process.

 

[panteragstk]

People volunteer and run from different parties and the people vote for their preference. Unfortunately the electoral college is in the way.
Perhaps the simple but not easy answer is to eliminate that electoral college process.

The electoral college would work just fine if it wasn't an all or nothing per state vote. It should be each individual vote go to who won it. So, here in TX we have 38 votes. Those should be individual, not all or nothing.

Our previous elections would have looked very differently if things worked that way.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The electoral college would work just fine if it wasn't an all or nothing per state vote. It should be each individual vote go to who won it. So, here in TX we have 38 votes. Those should be individual, not all or nothing.

Our previous elections would have looked very differently if things worked that way.

If you make it proportional then just eliminate it altogether and go by individual voters vote like any other elected official.

 

[TLS Guy]

I do wish the BBC news would be shown here daily at this time. It is far, far superior to anything we have on offer. They really preset all aspects of this tragedy, the stats, the science, economics and especially the human tragedy of it all. They give the grieving the time to speak and tell their powerful stories without hectoring or interruption. Today's broadcast was moving on so many levels.

This virus keeps proving itself more dangerous by the day. The serious syndrome in children which lands all the affected in the ICU very seriously ill, is now reported in Italy, Spain and France. Health authorities here have now issued an alert.

However the news also contained good progress from the Oxford Group. I now think they will almost certainly solve this problem and end this nightmare relatively soon. I am sorry Swerd but we can not progress according to usual process on this one. We are going to have to proceed with dispatch and throw some caution to the winds. Too many lives and will be lost with business as usual. THIS IS WAR. We all need to adopt a war footing. This is clearly the attitude in the UK, with WW II veterans summoning a younger generation to the Battle of Britain and Dunkirk spirit. The peril is as great. The US media are not reporting this the way they should and we are led by a demented President, and a vice President nearly as stupid after refusing to wear a mask at his visit today, as instructed to do by the leadership of Mayo Clinic. Apart from anything else this was plain rude.

Anyhow the Oxford group are now in a sprint, and I think they are set to achieve victory over this deadly pathogen. You can read an article in the New York Times about it today.

If this is effective you can skip a lot of the usual protocols.

I can tell you a personal story that may help you understand. Sometimes we have to just take a risk to save a life.

One weekend we had a 16 year old come in, who had taken a massive overdose of Tylenol. She was way beyond the lethal dose time curve. So wisdom would have said, and the graphs in the literature, predicted certain mortality.

The poor girl was writhing around delirious in agony from liver failure and a very swollen liver.

However I was aware of a very few case reports from Scotland of using acetylcyteine as a competitive antagonist to the Tylenol in the liver. They had reported survivals in some expected to die. It was not a controlled trial. Now acetylcysteine is an inhalational agent that is sold as mucomyst to break up lung mucous plugs. On the bottle it said, "Not for Intravenous administration"

However in view of a certain mortality I mixed an intravenous drip if it and administered it IV.

I arranged her transfer to the U of M for urgent liver transplant. The director was sure she would need one if one could be found in time Otherwise it was deemed hopeless.

Anyhow much to his surprise the young girl started making a recovery, did not need a liver transplant and progressed to full recovery.

Anyhow I received a severe sanction from the pharmacy committee and told not to do it again.

Well it so happened that I had a similar case a few months later. The graphs again showed the patient the wrong side of the survival line.
So I phoned the chief of staff, and said I was going to administer acetylcysteine IV again. He came in and concurred. So it was administered and the patient made a full recovery.

This treatment became, and is, the standard of care for acetominophen (Tylenol) overdose. A controlled trial was never done as it would have been totally unethical. Acetylcysteine bottles no longer say "Not for IV injection."

I relate this story and could relate others, that in serious situations you can quickly prove efficacy and safety if the need is urgent and the treatment is obviously clearly highly effective. In any proposed vaccine effectiveness should be obvious or it is no use as a vaccine.

I know other jurisdictions will proceed with haste. I hope the US is not going to be an outlier in this a we have to have a lot of preventable loss of life.

 

[Danzilla31]

I do wish the BBC news would be shown here daily at this time. It is far, far superior to anything we have on offer. They really preset all aspects of this tragedy, the stats, the science, economics and especially the human tragedy of it all. They give the grieving the time to speak and tell their powerful stories without hectoring or interruption. Today's broadcast was moving on so many levels.

This virus keeps proving itself more dangerous by the day. The serious syndrome in children which lands all the affected in the ICU very seriously ill, is now reported in Italy, Spain and France. Health authorities here have now issued an alert.

However the news also contained good progress from the Oxford Group. I now think they will almost certainly solve this problem and end this nightmare relatively soon. I am sorry Swerd but we can not progress according to usual process on this one. We are going to have to proceed with dispatch and throw some caution to the winds. Too many lives and will be lost with business as usual. THIS IS WAR. We all need to adopt a war footing. This is clearly the attitude in the UK, with WW II veterans summoning a younger generation to the Battle of Britain and Dunkirk spirit. The peril is as great. The US media are not reporting this the way they should and we are led by a demented President, and a vice President nearly as stupid after refusing to wear a mask at his visit today, as instructed to do by the leadership of Mayo Clinic. Apart from anything else this was plain rude.

Anyhow the Oxford group are now in a sprint, and I think they are set to achieve victory over this deadly pathogen. You can read an article in the New York Times about it today.

If this is effective you can skip a lot of the usual protocols.

I can tell you a personal story that may help you understand. Sometimes we have to just take a risk to save a life.

One weekend we had a 16 year old come in, who had taken a massive overdose of Tylenol. She was way beyond the lethal dose time curve. So wisdom would have said, and the graphs in the literature, predicted certain mortality.

The poor girl was writhing around delirious in agony from liver failure and a very swollen liver.

However I was aware of a very few case reports from Scotland of using acetylcyteine as a competitive antagonist to the Tylenol in the liver. They had reported survivals in some expected to die. It was not a controlled trial. Now acetylcysteine is an inhalational agent that is sold as mucomyst to break up lung mucous plugs. On the bottle it said, "Not for Intravenous administration"

However in view of a certain mortality I mixed an intravenous drip if it and administered it IV.

I arranged her transfer to the U of M for urgent liver transplant. The director was sure she would need one if one could be found in time Otherwise it was deemed hopeless.

Anyhow much to his surprise the young girl started making a recovery, did not need a liver transplant and progressed to full recovery.

Anyhow I received a severe sanction from the pharmacy committee and told not to do it again.

Well it so happened that I had a similar case a few months later. The graphs again showed the patient the wrong side of the survival line.
So I phoned the chief of staff, and said I was going to administer acetylcysteine IV again. He came in and concurred. So it was administered and the patient made a full recovery.

This treatment became, and is, the standard of care for acetominophen (Tylenol) overdose. A controlled trial was never done as it would have been totally unethical. Acetylcysteine bottles no longer say "Not for IV injection."

I relate this story and could relate others, that in serious situations you can quickly prove efficacy and safety if the need is urgent and the treatment is obviously clearly highly effective. In any proposed vaccine effectiveness should be obvious or it is no use as a vaccine.

I know other jurisdictions will proceed with haste. I hope the US is not going to be an outlier in this a we have to have a lot of preventable loss of life.

Is this the one that talks about a rare disorder that is triggered in some children possibly by COVID? It starts with a K am I correct

I read an article on it earlier Is that the one your speaking about?

There's a lot of maybes in that article so I'm hoping this is one of those instances where the press is jumping the gun and God willing children aren't being affected by COVID in this manner

It's bad enough to have one vulnerable population afflicted let alone another group as well especially children

On a more positive note my sister works with some researchers that did a lot of work on gene therapy and vaccination for cancer and other issues and they think they've stumbled on to something that could be useful as a treatment for the infected that has excellent results that if successful could be combined with vaccination

I'll link it tommorow Id like you and Swerd to take a look at it see if it's anything of interest or hope

My sister speaks very highly of this research team and she has extremely high standards when it comes to her time in medical so if she's excited it may be worth a look

It was on the news just hadn't hit national

I'll try to link it first thing tommorow Id do it tonight but I apologize long day at work very very tired psychiatric acute care is getting a little hectic right now

 

[TLS Guy]

Is this the one that talks about a rare disorder that is triggered in some children possibly by COVID? It starts with a K am I correct

I read an article on it earlier Is that the one your speaking about?

There's a lot of maybes in that article so I'm hoping this is one of those instances where the press is jumping the gun and God willing children aren't being affected by COVID in this manner

It's bad enough to have one vulnerable population afflicted let alone another group as well especially children

On a more positive note my sister works with some researchers that did a lot of work on gene therapy and vaccination for cancer and other issues and they think they've stumbled on to something that could be useful as a treatment for the infected that has excellent results that if successful could be combined with vaccination

I'll link it tommorow Id like you and Swerd to take a look at it see if it's anything of interest or hope

My sister speaks very highly of this research team and she has extremely high standards when it comes to her time in medical so if she's excited it may be worth a look

It was on the news just hadn't hit national

I'll try to link it first thing tommorow Id do it tonight but I apologize long day at work very very tired psychiatric acute care is getting a little hectic right now

Yes, Kowasaki's disease. At least that is what this new serious Covid 19 related disease in children seems to be. I see there are now reports from Australia.

What is the basis of it is unknown. The current theory is that it an immune response.

I do think the Oxford group will be successful. There are currently no US partners, as US firms want exclusive rights. Lots of help coming from elsewhere to the group, Congress needs to act to stop this nonsense fast.

 

[mtrycrafts]

panteragstk said:
The electoral college would work just fine if it wasn't an all or nothing per state vote. It should be each individual vote go to who won it. So, here in TX we have 38 votes. Those should be individual, not all or nothing.

Our previous elections would have looked very differently if things worked that way.

If you make it proportional then just eliminate it altogether and go by individual voters vote like any other elected official.

Since eliminating the college may take constitution change, that would be very difficult.
On the other hand, the only way proportional might work is if all 50 states had it and you could perhaps have fractional votes.
But, that might need to be evaluated, modeled, how well it would match popular vote outcomes of the past especially where the majority of popular vote lost the presidency.
While this is up to each state to do proportional, this too would not be unanimous with all states and we are back to square 1.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... The US media are not reporting this the way they should and we are led by a demented President, and a vice President nearly as stupid after refusing to wear a mask at his visit today, as instructed to do by the leadership of Mayo Clinic. Apart from anything else this was plain rude.
...

I saw that clip but am disturbed that the clinic didn't force him to wear one and if he refused, not let him in, period. Someone has to stand up to him.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Congress needs to act to stop this nonsense fast.

I think some would rather burn it to the ground.