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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Yes, Kowasaki's disease. At least that is what this new serious Covid 19 related disease in children seems to be. I see there are now reports from Australia.

What is the basis of it is unknown. The current theory is that it an immune response.

I do think the Oxford group will be successful. There are currently no US partners, as US firms want exclusive rights. Lots of help coming from elsewhere to the group, Congress needs to act to stop this nonsense fast.
As an American I was deeply ashamed of US partners wanting exclusive rights this is no time for that type of B.S. I was absolutely appalled. Sometimes you don't care about profit the disruption this is causing transcends that I don't know what to say

Also something to note the WHO is getting concerned that children all over the world are going to suffer greatly due to the mass disruptions that COVID had caused that will keep them from getting vaccinations for dozens of illnesses that normally they would be protected from them. This could have devastating results

On top of this Congress decides not to convene in Washington due to an increase in cases there. Meanwhile the package they were working on that would help small bussinesses is just sitting on the table

Disgusting

In the meantime states are being forced to start slowly opening back up

Make no mistake they aren't doing this just for the hell of it.

The massive unemployment is going to train wreck there ability to fund every thing if we don't start opening up they may not hold up indefinetly and they are well aware of this despite of the consequences

An executive order was written forcing meat plants to stay open because disruptions in the chain could just incite more panic

The Senate is already complaining of letting states declare bankruptcy rather then the Fed bailing them out to add to the national debt which really riled the state's up

And societal issues are starting to get ugly a 45 year old female post office worker was shot to death in another article a 13 year old kid was depressed and decided to walk up to a guy and shoot him in the back of the head just to keep himself from feeling depressed and not hurting himself

Those types of incidents will increase the more distancing affects mental stability and people forced out of work start to starve can't get unemployment and get desperate it's going to get really scary out there

We may not have a choice but to slowly open up hopefully as safe as we can the bottom is falling out if we lock down for too much longer we can't keep that going forever it's not sustainable

So I really hope your right and they come through with a vaccine in the near horizon

People are just so wiped into a fear about this that they may not want to face the cold truth. That if it gets worse then we may just have to move forward whether we want to or not and a lot of nasty decisions need to be made

And once again I'm ashamed of my countries inability to be altruistic in this situation and demand exclusive rights

Man I'm super tired I need to crash another long day at work tommorow staying up worrying about this will not make me useful to any one I'll post that link in the morning
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I saw that clip but am disturbed that the clinic didn't force him to wear one and if he refused, not let him in, period. Someone has to stand up to him.
I could not agree more a terrible message to send to the public ESPECIALLY if we're going to try to open areas back up responsibly Damn our leaders are just acting so f@$!ing retarded it's beyond embarrassing
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
I do wish the BBC news would be shown here daily at this time. It is far, far superior to anything we have on offer. They really preset all aspects of this tragedy, the stats, the science, economics and especially the human tragedy of it all. They give the grieving the time to speak and tell their powerful stories without hectoring or interruption. Today's broadcast was moving on so many levels.

This virus keeps proving itself more dangerous by the day. The serious syndrome in children which lands all the affected in the ICU very seriously ill, is now reported in Italy, Spain and France. Health authorities here have now issued an alert.

However the news also contained good progress from the Oxford Group. I now think they will almost certainly solve this problem and end this nightmare relatively soon. I am sorry Swerd but we can not progress according to usual process on this one. We are going to have to proceed with dispatch and throw some caution to the winds. Too many lives and will be lost with business as usual. THIS IS WAR. We all need to adopt a war footing. This is clearly the attitude in the UK, with WW II veterans summoning a younger generation to the Battle of Britain and Dunkirk spirit. The peril is as great. The US media are not reporting this the way they should and we are led by a demented President, and a vice President nearly as stupid after refusing to wear a mask at his visit today, as instructed to do by the leadership of Mayo Clinic. Apart from anything else this was plain rude.

Anyhow the Oxford group are now in a sprint, and I think they are set to achieve victory over this deadly pathogen. You can read an article in the New York Times about it today.

If this is effective you can skip a lot of the usual protocols.

I can tell you a personal story that may help you understand. Sometimes we have to just take a risk to save a life.

One weekend we had a 16 year old come in, who had taken a massive overdose of Tylenol. She was way beyond the lethal dose time curve. So wisdom would have said, and the graphs in the literature, predicted certain mortality.

The poor girl was writhing around delirious in agony from liver failure and a very swollen liver.

However I was aware of a very few case reports from Scotland of using acetylcyteine as a competitive antagonist to the Tylenol in the liver. They had reported survivals in some expected to die. It was not a controlled trial. Now acetylcysteine is an inhalational agent that is sold as mucomyst to break up lung mucous plugs. On the bottle it said, "Not for Intravenous administration"

However in view of a certain mortality I mixed an intravenous drip if it and administered it IV.

I arranged her transfer to the U of M for urgent liver transplant. The director was sure she would need one if one could be found in time Otherwise it was deemed hopeless.

Anyhow much to his surprise the young girl started making a recovery, did not need a liver transplant and progressed to full recovery.

Anyhow I received a severe sanction from the pharmacy committee and told not to do it again.

Well it so happened that I had a similar case a few months later. The graphs again showed the patient the wrong side of the survival line.
So I phoned the chief of staff, and said I was going to administer acetylcysteine IV again. He came in and concurred. So it was administered and the patient made a full recovery.

This treatment became, and is, the standard of care for acetominophen (Tylenol) overdose. A controlled trial was never done as it would have been totally unethical. Acetylcysteine bottles no longer say "Not for IV injection."

I relate this story and could relate others, that in serious situations you can quickly prove efficacy and safety if the need is urgent and the treatment is obviously clearly highly effective. In any proposed vaccine effectiveness should be obvious or it is no use as a vaccine.

I know other jurisdictions will proceed with haste. I hope the US is not going to be an outlier in this a we have to have a lot of preventable loss of life.
A hero is someone who cares more about saving a life than a potential malpractice suit. You da man.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
I saw that clip but am disturbed that the clinic didn't force him to wear one and if he refused, not let him in, period. Someone has to stand up to him.
3 years of non-stop fear and intimidation... I'm mentally worn out.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
I saw that clip but am disturbed that the clinic didn't force him to wear one and if he refused, not let him in, period. Someone has to stand up to him.
Perhaps the clinic did not want to risk retaliation from the Trump administration during this crisis and putting patients at risk? The Mayo Clinic even removed the tweet saying that Pence was told to use a mask.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
So then, you are excluding the independent party? How about the green or libertarians? Now you are talking about at least a 5 party committee.
Or, which bipartisan party did you really mean?
What percentage of votes do the marginal parties receive? Like it, or not- the two gorillas in the room will continue to win elections until the others can come up with a viable candidate.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Since eliminating the college may take constitution change, that would be very difficult.
On the other hand, the only way proportional might work is if all 50 states had it and you could perhaps have fractional votes.
You can force the same outcome without needing all the states.

If enough states to win the electoral college agree to put all their electoral votes to whomever wins the national popular vote, that would have the same effect.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Perhaps the clinic did not want to risk retaliation from the Trump administration during this crisis and putting patients at risk? The Mayo Clinic even removed the tweet saying that Pence was told to use a mask.
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You can force the same outcome without needing all the states.

If enough states to win the electoral college agree to put all their electoral votes to whomever wins the national popular vote, that would have the same effect.
So you want states to engage in collusion?
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
So you want states to engage in collusion?
Collusion (noun): secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

Perhaps you can explain to me how what what I suggested was secret or illegal, and cheated or deceived others?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
However the news also contained good progress from the Oxford Group. I now think they will almost certainly solve this problem and end this nightmare relatively soon. I am sorry Swerd but we can not progress according to usual process on this one. We are going to have to proceed with dispatch and throw some caution to the winds.

I can tell you a personal story that may help you understand. Sometimes we have to just take a risk to save a life.

One weekend we had a 16 year old come in, who had taken a massive overdose of Tylenol …
Your acetylcysteine story is a good example of what corners can be cut when one patient's life is at stake. But this doesn't apply when we are talking about the many millions of otherwise healthy people who might receive a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Fortunately those who must make this vaccine trial design decision are way above my pay grade – and yours too. I can only comment on what trial designs are routinely accepted by the FDA for trials done in the USA. If the Covid-19 epidemic is enough of a risk for the wise men at the FDA to lower the bar for trial design, I'll gladly nod my head approvingly. And if the UK has it's own different standards, I am not familiar with them.

I previously mentioned the thalidomide story from the 1960s, and how the FDA learned the hard way not to take short cuts. Here is another example, with the Salk vaccine against polio, how the FDA learned the hard way not to take short cuts.

If you recall, in the 1950s there were repeating waves epidemics of polio, that may have been similar to the emergency conditions we now have with SARS-CoV-2. There was great public pressure for the rapid development of a vaccine. The Salk vaccine was rapidly developed, and years later the more effective and safer Sabin vaccine became ready for widespread use. If you recall, the Salk vaccine made use of very large amounts of polio virus grown in scaled-up cultures using African rhesus monkey kidney cells as host cells for the virus to infect. These virus particles were chemically inactivated by formalin cross linking.

By 1960, it was discovered that rhesus monkeys were widely infected by another naturally occurring virus called SV40. A few years later, SV40 was found in stocks of the injected form of the polio vaccine in use between 1955 and 1963. (It was not found in the Sabin oral vaccine.) More than 98 million Americans received one or more doses of polio vaccine between 1955 and 1963 when a proportion of vaccine was contaminated with SV40. An estimated 10–30 million Americans may have received a dose of the Salk vaccine contaminated with SV40. I am certainly one of those 10-30 million people.

SV40 virus causes tumors in lab mice. Its presence in the Salk polio vaccine was not widely known to the public until much later, but it did cause great controversy and concern among virologists and cancer researchers.

In 1998, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) finally undertook a large retroactive study, using cancer case information from the NCI's database. That study revealed no increased incidence of cancer in persons who may have received vaccine containing SV40. Another large study in Sweden examined cancer rates of 700,000 individuals who had received potentially contaminated polio vaccine as late as 1957. Again, this study revealed no increased cancer incidence between groups who received polio vaccines containing SV40 and those who did not. The question of whether SV40 causes cancer in humans remains controversial, and the development of improved assays for detection of SV40 in human tissues will be needed to resolve the controversy.

In this example, it was eventually learned that the SV40 virus contaminating the Salk polio vaccine probably did not harm in the millions who were exposed during vaccination. But, at the time, it caused severe alarm within the FDA. Understandably, this SV40 contamination has been instrumental to the FDA adopting very stringent standards that avoid taking unnecessary short cuts to manufacturing methods and clinical trial designs.

This story of SV40 contamination is similar, arguably, to your acetylcysteine story. But, as with the thalidomide disaster, the SV40 history has had a major effect on present day FDA thinking. We will see if any of that changes as US SARS-CoV-2 vaccine trials get approved.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
this is of course preliminary they are trying to get this fast tracked by the FDA to continue research
But my sister speaks real highly of this research group in her time working with them she doesn't just endorse anybody and she worked very closely with the team and facility
It's just some hope something to add to the hope TLS Guy is giving us with Oxford and the news there
This hasn't recieved national attention
I was hoping that people like Swerd and TLS Guy and others with good knowledge could look this over and see if it has anything good in it
Good morning everyone thank you for your time I gotta get ready for work I'll check back in later when I get freed up
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
this is of course preliminary they are trying to get this fast tracked by the FDA to continue research
But my sister speaks real highly of this research group in her time working with them she doesn't just endorse anybody and she worked very closely with the team and facility
It's just some hope something to add to the hope TLS Guy is giving us with Oxford and the news there
This hasn't recieved national attention
I was hoping that people like Swerd and TLS Guy and others with good knowledge could look this over and see if it has anything good in it
Good morning everyone thank you for your time I gotta get ready for work I'll check back in later when I get freed up
That sounds promising not just for CV19 but other outbreaks as well! I hope it pans out.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Perhaps the clinic did not want to risk retaliation from the Trump administration during this crisis and putting patients at risk? The Mayo Clinic even removed the tweet saying that Pence was told to use a mask.
I heard that. I also thought of about the retaliation but that could have been an interesting public expose and fight, perhaps. ;)
 
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