Marantz SR-8012 versus newer SR-6014

[macct]

I am looking to replace my older anthem receiver with a Marantz receiver. It is. 3.1 setup with no rear speakers. The setup is for TV/movies and music. I want to more easily stream music via Apple Music, stream movies via Roku plus normal tv watching. I was all set with SR-6014 until the salesman commented if music listening is important look at the SR-8012. He has an open box and the cost difference would be less than I would have expected given the differences in list price. Is the quality difference of the SR-8012 worth it? Will the improvement be noticeable (Paradigm Prestige Speakers)? Is the SR-6014 more future proof than a model released over 2 years ago? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's a salesman.... Right off the Marantz 6014 product page:

"The Most Musical Sound


Extensively tuned by Marantz sound masters at the most state of the art facilities to deliver an exquisite sonic signature. No component leaves the hands of Marantz sound masters until it passes rigorous testing. Envelop yourself with the most musical sound, from any source"



You could simply compare the features for yourself whether those of the 8 series is more in line with your needs than the 6 series....but with a 3.1 system can't think of what you'd particularly benefit from except perhaps a bit extra amp power (but not particularly significant). Future proof in what particular way?

 

[macct]

In terms of future proofing, I was wondering if eARC or the 2.3 HDMI would matter, but as I read more I don’t think so. I think it comes down to if the added watts or quality of parts would have a sonic improvement. Thank you

 

[lovinthehd]

Adding watts may mean something if a difference of 1dB or so is important to you. Otherwise no, I wouldn't expect any differences. Do you plan on sourcing lossless codecs via ARC? Not something I'd plan for....

 

[macct]

Appreciate the response. It doesn’t seem to be any real benefit for me to go with the more expensive unit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would agree. I have a 6012, so obviously a couple years older. But it does AirPlay, and HEOS and all the other stuff I can think of. Pretty sure the new hdmi won’t affect me and eARC is useless. So, yeah, don’t let the salesman fear creep in.

 

[EBN]

SR6014 is almost identical to Denon X3600H. Marantz SR8012 is slightly more powerfull than Denon X6500H.
Gene loved it! https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver

This is one of the best sites to do comparisons:

Marantz SR6014 vs Marantz SR8012: Comprehensive Comparison

Compare the Marantz SR6014 and Marantz SR8012. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.

www.zkelectronics.com

Rumors say that SR7014 and SR8013/14 will be introduced later on summer with HDMI 2.1, but possibly with limited amount of 2.1 connections so not really ideal to buy newest model if that is the case!

SR8012 internals with toroidal transformer and larger 22,000uF, 81V caps (SR6014 12,000uF or 15,000uF).

SR6014:

 

[Verdinut]

IMO, the SR6014 would be a better option as there are 2 channels less than with the 8012, so most likely more air circulation between components which also means less heat. In addition, as you don't need to use that many channels, the SR8012 would be a waste of money.

 

[lovinthehd]

SR6014 is almost identical to Denon X3600H. Marantz SR8012 is slightly more powerfull than Denon X6500H.
Gene loved it! https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8012-receiver

This is one of the best sites to do comparisons:

Marantz SR6014 vs Marantz SR8012: Comprehensive Comparison

Compare the Marantz SR6014 and Marantz SR8012. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.

www.zkelectronics.com

Rumors say that SR7014 and SR8013/14 will be introduced later on summer with HDMI 2.1, but possibly with limited amount of 2.1 connections so not really ideal to buy newest model if that is the case!

SR8012 internals with toroidal transformer and larger 22,000uF, 81V caps (SR6014 12,000uF or 15,000uF).

SR6014:

Hadn't seen that site but just glancing at their ranking and comments I wonder about some....one comment that stuck out is that a toroidal transformer costs several times as much as an EI. I don't know a lot but pretty sure that's bullshit. More maybe, but several times more? Toroidals wouldn't compete if that were true, I'd think. @M Code has indicated a power supply is the most expensive single component before IIRC, so maybe he can shed some light on that one.

 

[M Code]

A toroidal power transformer offers multiple advantages over EL type transformers, more compact, better control of magnetic fields.. However the challenge is the cost of the torroidal cost can/will vary depending upon size & windings.. But for a sizable toroidal as used in a typical higher-end AVR or component power amplifier, the cost is 20-40% higher.... Also note as previously mentioned, the power transformer is the most expensive, single internal component in the AVRs and component power amplifiers...

Just my $0.02..

 

[PENG]

A toroidal power transformer offers multiple advantages over EL type transformers, more compact, better control of magnetic fields.. However the challenge is the cost of the torroidal cost can/will vary depending upon size & windings.. But for a sizable toroidal as used in a typical higher-end AVR or component power amplifier, the cost is 20-40% higher.... Also note as previously mentioned, the power transformer is the most expensive, single internal component in the AVRs and component power amplifiers...

Just my $0.02..

You are making a general statement that has been spread via hearsay in the audio world. May be truer to qualify such general statement with "all else being equal...etc..", though in many cases all else are not equal. EI core audio grade transformers can be built to mitigate some of the disadvantages while preserving their advantages over the toroidal design. Like a lot of things, there pros and cons.. Denon could have put a toroidal in their X8500H obviously if they chose to, as they had done in the past in their flag ship units. They obvious made their decision after weighing the pros and cons.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am looking to replace my older anthem receiver with a Marantz receiver. It is. 3.1 setup with no rear speakers. The setup is for TV/movies and music. I want to more easily stream music via Apple Music, stream movies via Roku plus normal tv watching. I was all set with SR-6014 until the salesman commented if music listening is important look at the SR-8012. He has an open box and the cost difference would be less than I would have expected given the differences in list price. Is the quality difference of the SR-8012 worth it? Will the improvement be noticeable (Paradigm Prestige Speakers)? Is the SR-6014 more future proof than a model released over 2 years ago? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

If it streams well on the SR8012, then it will stream well on the SR6014 and any other Marantz or Denon.

Only difference (WiFi Streaming, WiFi Remote Apps) will be between different brands (D/M vs Yamaha vs Sony, etc.).

 

[M Code]

You are making a general statement that has been spread via hearsay in the audio world. May be truer to qualify such general statement with "all else being equal...etc..", though in many cases all else are not equal. EI core audio grade transformers can be built to mitigate some of the disadvantages while preserving their advantages over the toroidal design. Like a lot of things, there pros and cons.. Denon could have put a toroidal in their X8500H obviously if they chose to, as they had done in the past in their flag ship units. They obvious made their decision after weighing the pros and cons.

Not really a general statement...
A toroidal transformer is more compact and required when the product's footprint is smaller. Regarding the flux fields of toroidal and EL transformer, U can debate this but sourcing an EL transformer with this capability is much more challenging task then with a comparable rated toroidal. The mentioned Denon model 8500 is assembled in Japan and there are (2) Japanese sources for quality EL transformers but most likely impossible to source in China.

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

Not really a general statement...
A toroidal transformer is more compact and required when the product's footprint is smaller. Regarding the flux fields of toroidal and EL transformer, U can debate this but sourcing an EL transformer with this capability is much more challenging task then with a comparable rated toroidal. The mentioned Denon model 8500 is assembled in Japan and there are (2) Japanese sources for quality EL transformers but most likely impossible to source in China.

Just my $0.02...

Of course, as I said there were pros and cons for both. That 18 lb EI core in the X8500H will likely be better and cost more than the toroidal in the 8012. You do know Luxman always use E-I core right? There are other expensive products that preferred E-I and there are not shortages of very cheap amps that have toroids in them. It is a general statement to say one is always better.

By the way, as I suspected the AVR-X3600H measured well enough to apparently got accepted to Amir's recommended list. So I guess the X8500H's owners can relax, as it can only be even better, with the extra shielding, better customer designed/wound 18. lbs "EI" core transformer.

 

[Pogre]

If the 8012 is current enough and you're not future proofing that'd be my choice. I think it still has plenty of usefulness with today's connections and features.

If you plan to, or have an external amplifier and/or want to have the absolute most current then the 6014 is great too.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just what is the price difference between the 6014 and 8012 in this case?

 

[M Code]

Of course, as I said there were pros and cons for both. That 18 lb EI core in the X8500H will likely be better and cost more than the toroidal in the 8012. You do know Luxman always use E-I core right? There are other expensive products that preferred E-I and there are not shortages of very cheap amps that have toroids in them. It is a general statement to say one is always better.

By the way, as I suspected the AVR-X3600H measured well enough to apparently got accepted to Amir's recommended list. So I guess the X8500H's owners can relax, as it can only be even better, with the extra shielding, better customer designed/wound 18. lbs "EI" core transformer.

I am not hung up on any of the comments..
But 1 thing that most HT users fail to grasp is the significant challenge the AVR design engineers face that within the AVR to minimize the RFI/EMI fields so that the SNR/specs for HD video and HD audio are maintained. EZ to say, difficult to deliver. Here I can draw from own personal experience, some years back I spent 2 weeks in the Orient and my task was to lead a development team to fix a major problem. The problem was the tardy delivery timeline of deliver a major brand brand, high-end THX (Ultra 2) AVR that was failing to meeting the stringent RFI/EMI specs holding up its certification. The AVR's HD audio functions/specs operation including THX were fine, the problem was visible hum bars through the HD video outputs. Very visible especially whenever the OSD was ON. Note that this AVR did use a toroidal power transformer, the key transformer design engineers (from Japan) tried many things. In the end the solution was to tool a new heavy duty outer metal for improved shielding that would cover over the toroidal. And the cover was also sprayed with some type grounding/shielding paint. This did the trick but delayed the product about 3 months.

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

I am not hung up on any of the comments..

Me neither, we just have different opinions, among some facts.

However, if you have some spare time, please read the linked article I posted a few time before. If you don't have time, may be the last paragraph would do.

SoundStage! Max dB - The High-End Mythology of the Toroidal Power Transformer (07/1998)

In U, my final year options were power and control, and I worked in the high power stuff for some time so I am quite familiar with transformer designs and their characteristics.

Anyway, it is interesting to see that this thing, below, actually measured better than the AV8805 (that has a toroid) in SINAD (i.e. THD+N) and about equal it in all other categories. It beats the AV8805 and 7705 in FR too but that's only because Marantz chose to use the slow roll off filter setting causing drop off from about 17 kHz to 20 kHz.

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3600H 9.2 channel AVR. It was purchased new by a kind member who drop shipped it to me. It costs US $1,099. From outside the AVR-X3600H seems like any other AVR: But the controls feel a lot better than some other AVRs. The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[snakeeyes]

3600 still doesn’t allow NeuralX on Dolby content? I don’t see a firmware patch listed at Denon or mentioned here or on AVS, even though Dolby had backed down on this rule a few months after 3600 was released.

 

[lovinthehd]

3600 still doesn’t allow NeuralX on Dolby content? I don’t see a firmware patch listed at Denon or mentioned here or on AVS, even though Dolby had backed down on this rule a few months after 3600 was released.

Your question might be better/more appropriate here? https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/avr-x3600h-a-viable-low-cost-alternative-to-the-more-expensive-avps-denon-and-avcs-yamaha.117881/#post-1384540