RBH Sound Owner's Thread

[Movie2099]

Anyone ever use Lab Gruppen amps? I know from a JTR speaker demo, he used Lab Gruppen amps to power all 7 of his Noesis 215RT’s.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great thanks!

I have a pretty small room for my setup so I'd very rarely be 15 ft away. I just listen to probably 75% music so wondered if it was worth it in the long run. I'd like to have these for a while. I'm no audiophile so I just wondered if I'd notice a difference.

You mentioned the words “long run”. I mean if these are the “last speakers you plan on buying for the next 20 years”, then the difference in price may be insignificant compared to the time period.

But I personally don’t think you will notice the difference in sound quality.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Anyone ever use Lab Gruppen amps? I know from a JTR speaker demo, he used Lab Gruppen amps to power all 7 of his Noesis 215RT’s.

Can you find any specs on any Lab Gruppen amps like the specs I posted for the RBH - Pascal amps?

SNR, THD+N, Damping Factor, FR, etc.?

 

[Movie2099]

Can you find any specs on any Lab Gruppen amps like the specs I posted for the RBH - Pascal amps?

SNR, THD+N, Damping Factor, FR, etc.?

I saw a spec sheet for one amp (FP10000Q). SNR 112dB - they didn’t say if it’s 1kHz or 20Hz-20kHz. THD was listed 0.1%, but at only 1 watt! What happens when the power goes to 250-500W? We know that THD increases with increased power. Why would they list for just 1 watt?

http://www.gearmarket.eu/media/gearmarket/product/11001.pdf

Their website is not working for me, but I found these specs on one of their amps that's 14,000watts (2x7000w into 2ohm)

Lab Gruppen FP 14000 Specifications:

• Number of channels: 2
• Peak Total Output (Both Channels Driven): 14000W
• Peak Output Voltage Per Channel: 195 V
• Max. Output Current Per Channel: 83 A peak
• Max. Output Power:
  • Per Channel (Both Channels Driven):
    • 2 ohms: 7000 W
    • 4 ohms: 4400 W
    • 8 ohms: 2350 W
    • 16 ohms: 1200 W
  • Bridged (Per Channel):
    • 4 ohms: 14000 W
    • 8 ohms: 8800 W
    • 16 ohms: 4700 W
  • Performance with Gain: 35 dB and VPL - 195 V
  • THD 20 Hz - 20 kHz for 1 W: < 0.1%
  • THD at 1 kHz and 1 dB below clipping: < 0.05%
  • Signal To Noise Ratio: >112 dBA
  • Channel Separation (Crosstalk) at 1 kHz: >70dB
  • Frequency response (1 W into 8 ohms): +0/-3 dB 2Hz - 34.2 kHz
  • Input impedance: 20 kOhms
  • Input Common Mode Rejection, CMR: 54 dB
  • Output impedance @ 100 Hz: 56 megohms

 

[Verdinut]

Hey I have a noob question let's say I want to use a crown xls amp I already own several they state they have a frequency range of 20hz-20khz but the RBH subs I plan to get play down to 17hz+-3db plus with in room they go much lower

So how do you pull that off if that only responds to frequencies down to 20hz wouldn't you need an amp that plays lower then that so you can capture that 17hz scene in Pulse for example?

This is probably a very stupid noob question but I've always been curious about that

For example, the QSC RMX 850a and 1450a are Class AB amps which have a frequency response of 20-20K within 1dB and down to 5 Hz at -3dB which is outstanding for the asking price..
The advantage of those amps is that you can bridge the two channels to obtain a lot more power. If you sit at least 10-12 feet from them, you shouldn't hear the cooling fan noise. In comparison, the GX series of amps cannot be bridged and you would have a channel which wouldn't be used unless you were driving two speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Their website is not working for me, but I found these specs on one of their amps that's 14,000watts (2x7000w into 2ohm)

Lab Gruppen FP 14000 Specifications:

• Number of channels: 2
• Peak Total Output (Both Channels Driven): 14000W
• Peak Output Voltage Per Channel: 195 V
• Max. Output Current Per Channel: 83 A peak
• Max. Output Power:
  • Per Channel (Both Channels Driven):
    • 2 ohms: 7000 W
    • 4 ohms: 4400 W
    • 8 ohms: 2350 W
    • 16 ohms: 1200 W
  • Bridged (Per Channel):
    • 4 ohms: 14000 W
    • 8 ohms: 8800 W
    • 16 ohms: 4700 W
  • Performance with Gain: 35 dB and VPL - 195 V
  • THD 20 Hz - 20 kHz for 1 W: < 0.1%
  • THD at 1 kHz and 1 dB below clipping: < 0.05%
  • Signal To Noise Ratio: >112 dBA
  • Channel Separation (Crosstalk) at 1 kHz: >70dB
  • Frequency response (1 W into 8 ohms): +0/-3 dB 2Hz - 34.2 kHz
  • Input impedance: 20 kOhms
  • Input Common Mode Rejection, CMR: 54 dB
  • Output impedance @ 100 Hz: 56 megohms

1. SNR 112dBA, nothing impressive, especially when they don‘t specify bandwidth (1kHz vs full) or at what power. I’ve seen $300 AVR with SNR of 110dBA+.

2. THD 0.1% at 1 watt., nothing impressive. What is the THD at 2350 watts? A lot of amps are 0.05% at Full Power. I’ve seen $300 AVR with THD of 0.01% THD.

3. Crosstalk 70dB 1kHz. Nothing impressive. A lot of AVRs have Crosstalk of 80-90dB+. I think I’ve seen $300 AVR with crosstalk of 70dB.

Bottom line - not bad, but not audiophile HiFi specs.You pay too much for a lot of power, but most speakers and subs don’t need and cannot handle all that power.

 

[Verdinut]

1. SNR 112dBA, nothing impressive, especially when they don‘t specify bandwidth (1kHz vs full) or at what power. I’ve seen $300 AVR with SNR of 110dBA+.

2. THD 0.1% at 1 watt., nothing impressive. What is the THD at 2350 watts? A lot of amps are 0.05% at Full Power. I’ve seen $300 AVR with THD of 0.01% THD.

3. Crosstalk 70dB 1kHz. Nothing impressive. A lot of AVRs have Crosstalk of 80-90dB+. I think I’ve seen $300 AVR with crosstalk of 70dB.

Bottom line - not bad, but not audiophile HiFi specs.You pay too much for a lot of power, but most speakers and subs don’t need and cannot handle all that power.

I fully agree with you. That amp also requires a dedicated 240 volt power line.

 

[andreakobe44]

You mentioned the words “long run”. I mean if these are the “last speakers you plan on buying for the next 20 years”, then the difference in price may be insignificant compared to the time period.

But I personally don’t think you will notice the difference in sound quality.

Well I’d like to have them for 10 years or so. Would it work to do 3 fronts in reference and the surrounds in standard?

 

[Verdinut]

Well I’d like to have them for 10 years or so. Would it work to do 3 fronts in reference and the surrounds in standard?

Sure. A perfect matching is not required for surround speakers, even different brands of speakers could be used. For all practical purposes, the level of audio signals produced for surround channels is appreciably lower than that of the three front channels, and the matching is not critical.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well I’d like to have them for 10 years or so. Would it work to do 3 fronts in reference and the surrounds in standard?

Yes. It would work fine.

 

[KEW]

Just to provide the counter-point...
There is something to be said for the amp being specifically matched to the sub!
I would be absolutely on board with these being external amps, but most of the major ID players have done a more than casual job of matching the amp to the sub/driver.
One of the most important attributes of a sub is what it does when driven to it's limits - it can push the driver to the point of mechanical interference (a nasty sound to invade your audio bliss), or to the point of port chuffing, or worst case, blow the driver (especially likely at frequencies below the port tune of a ported sub)!
Tom V. of PSA will tell you not to take it as a challenge, but his subs are pretty-much bullet proof! I think that is pretty much true of all of the major players. Ideally an amp will employ a limiter before the threshold where any of the above problems begin. Thus when the signal would create the problem situation, the sub simply does not play at the full level that the signal suggests. Many times, you would never recognize the condition because it is handled so adroitly.
Again, I would be totally on-board with these "specific to the sub" amps being external, but I do want that type of attention to the mate up.
Every DIY sub builder has to deal with this problem in one way or another.
I think the best solution, assuming you have the budget, is to select a sub that is so potent that you would never see a situation where the sub is getting to its limits! It sounds like the RBH sub under discussion qualifies on that count, but I think it is important to discuss the disadvantage of external amps for the benefit of readers that have not considered the drawback of using external (third party) amps with a subwoofer and may be looking at less expensive options!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, in addition to the upcoming high quality RBH class-D amps, RBH is also working the new line of speakers to succeed the SV line.

Because of COVID-19, things are proceeding slower than usual. But they are proceeding.

2 other things I wanted to mention.

1. When the SV line succeeded the SX line, the SX-8300 tower was not continued. However, many fans have asked for a successor of the SX-8300. Thus, the new speaker line will have a successor to the SX-8300.

Although the SV-6500 sells a lot more and is more popular, some fans feel they want something bigger like the SX-8300.

2. With the new speaker line, RBH will be building their OWN speaker cabinets in their OWN shop. That's awesome news. Now RBH won't have to depend on cabinets overseas.

 

[Montucky]

2. With the new speaker line, RBH will be building their OWN speaker cabinets in their OWN shop. That's awesome news. Now RBH won't have to depend on cabinets overseas.

Woh!!! That IS good news! Whoever did their cabinets for their SV series did absolutely top notch work, so I don't mean to detract from that, but if they can pull manufacturing for that in-house to Layton, then that's awesome! I know that disruptions in their supply chain has been a point of frustration for them in the past here and there, and I'm sure COVID has to have strained that even further. Hope the change works out great for them! They have some awesome crew working over there, so I'm sure they'll do an outstanding job.

 

[Movie2099]

Found these for sale on Audiogon.

RBH dealer demo's near mint EXCELLENT soun... For Sale | Audiogon

RBH Signature Reference SV-6500R Full-Range for sale. Read ENTIRE description before emailing we will NOT reply to question stated in the descripti...

www.audiogon.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Found these for sale on Audiogon.

RBH dealer demo's near mint EXCELLENT soun... For Sale | Audiogon

RBH Signature Reference SV-6500R Full-Range for sale. Read ENTIRE description before emailing we will NOT reply to question stated in the descripti...

www.audiogon.com

Why? You interested?

I think the 6000-series towers have always been RBH’s #1 seller.

But I always preferred their bigger offerings like the old SX-8300 towers.

 

[Movie2099]

Why? You interested?

I think the 6000-series towers have always been RBH’s #1 seller.

But I always preferred their bigger offerings like the old SX-8300 towers.

Haha, naw. Just thought I would post to anyone who might be looking for some RBH speakers.

Maybe someday i'll get some tower speakers, but for now and the foreseeable future I will be using in-wall speakers.

 

[panteragstk]

That's a damn good deal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Another happy RBH SI-1010P owner.

@ParadigmDawg also has one of these. I think he installed it himself.

These pics are from my client who just installed the SI-1010 himself.

I have one SI-1010 also, but it's not in the ceiling. It's just sitting in plain sight.

 

[Erod]

What are the best Atmos in ceiling speakers to pair with the SV-661R speakers?

I'm thinking perhaps the Martin Logan Electromotion IC speakers with their directional aluminum woofers and AMTs?

 

[Movie2099]

What are the best Atmos in ceiling speakers to pair with the SV-661R speakers?

I'm thinking perhaps the Martin Logan Electromotion IC speakers with their directional aluminum woofers and AMTs?

I would guess the best Atmos speakers to pair with your RBH SV-661R Speakers would be RBH Atmos speakers.