Coronavirus: When Would You Turn The Country Back On?

[highfigh]

It's like this, NYC, LA, Boston all have a crazy pop Densities
Here are all the numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

Mont cities in America don't even come close to this. If 70% of people did social distancing in these high density cities.. there are still more people out in the streets then no social distancing in other cities and counties, so why are they asked to act the same when they are not the same?

Throw in the fact that most of the younger generation have little to no reaction.. There is no reason to treat everything the same.

Each state is free to do their own thing some are doing a better job at this then others.. In these low pop densities areas place rules that protect the high risk, 3 days a week for 2 hours stores are only open to elderly. Put limits on hospital and retirement home visits. Instead of paying for 100% of the work force to not work. Let local agencies and local business target high risk to employees to work from home or not at all and still get a paycheck.

I understand this will 100% lead to more infections and more death then leaving everything closed. However by what %. What % of people will loose their will to live as their life is destroyed around them? How many business will fail causing retirements to go up and increasing the Federal burden for a generation? People with out jobs do three things in high rates. Have more kids, commit crime, turn to drugs.

I 100% agree when Trump said the cure cannot be worse then the disease.

Inner cities are very similar, regardless of where they are- people are in much closer proximity than in outlying areas and many use public transportation, which is a major problem.

The fact that younger people show no reaction is EXACTLY the reason for isolation! They might not react, but they can carry it and infect others who are susceptible.

 

[clamatowas]

I feel like you ignored many of the point I made that address your counter argument.

You're correct some cities have a high density, MOST do not. Most cities in the USA are under 10k many many far under. Treat them differently.

Why force people who can safely get the virus Once, then build an immunity to not do that? Put walls around those who cannot... Let the mostly unaffected build herd immunity and continue to keep the world going.

This is why the young go to war and not the old..

I understand where the FED operates this task is NOT possible. They don't have the resources or the tools to be that granular. But local government can, hence why you see Trump saying over and over it's up to each state to understand their situation and act accordingly. I feel like the Media is trying to force him to do sweeping acts because politics vs necessity.

 

[panteragstk]

80 year-olds ARE NOT 'boomers'!

Not to diminish the value of your parents/in-laws, but they have already beat the odds WRT life expectancy if they're in their 80s. Ever think to ask if they're afraid of the consequences of contracting this?

Honestly, she got lumped in because she lives with them, so her Boomer daughters choice could have a direct effect on her. Granted, she'd still be going to church if it was open soooo...

 

[Danzilla31]

I

80 year-olds ARE NOT 'boomers'!

Not to diminish the value of your parents/in-laws, but they have already beat the odds WRT life expectancy if they're in their 80s. Ever think to ask if they're afraid of the consequences of contracting this?

I think a lot of it is because some of them are pretty old school and came from some hard knocks

So they're kind off how's a good way to put this too Damn tough for there own good so to speak I know an older gentleman just like this who survived cancer he's go that if I die I die kind of mentality and he's not afraid of it

I think that attitude can be good and bad

My best friend who had a stroke 10 years ago and is forever confined to a nursing home contracted Covid it at that nursing home in San Antonio

I haven't been able to see him in months I miss my brother I used to see him every 2 weeks some times more if work allowed

All I can do is check in on the phone

So far all he's had was a sore through for 2 days and that's it but you'd think hed be the worst case scenario he has tons of complications so far he's plugging away

Which pissed him off he's confined to a nursing home firvthe rest of his life at the age of 55 he's told me numerous times that he will respect when God takes him home but he's ready to die he wants to die

I look him in the eye and I never know what to say when he feels like that

Maybe some off the older generation who've lost a lot of are in a lot of pain or issues feel that way maybe those are some reasons why some of them might be so reckless

I don't know

 

[Danzilla31]

I feel like you ignored many of the point I made that address your counter argument.

You're correct some cities have a high density, MOST do not. Most cities in the USA are under 10k many many far under. Treat them differently.

Why force people who can safely get the virus Once, then build an immunity to not do that? Put walls around those who cannot... Let the mostly unaffected build herd immunity and continue to keep the world going.

This is why the young go to war and not the old..

I understand where the FED operates this task is NOT possible. They don't have the resources or the tools to be that granular. But local government can, hence why you see Trump saying over and over it's up to each state to understand their situation and act accordingly. I feel like the Media is trying to force him to do sweeping acts because politics vs necessity.

I appreciate your viewpoints brother who knows whose wrong or right but I like getting feedback from different perspectives so thank you for what's it worth I'm more in agreement with where your at

My minds pretty made up at this point

What the state's and feds do will come down to hopefully good leadership combined with hopefully the CDC and science

Well just have to see whose right and whose wrong now

But I hate to say it but your right you can't implode the economy forever man you just can't we gotta be strategizing something whether it's individual states federal government something

 

[Danzilla31]

It's like this, NYC, LA, Boston all have a crazy pop Densities
Here are all the numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

Mont cities in America don't even come close to this. If 70% of people did social distancing in these high density cities.. there are still more people out in the streets then no social distancing in other cities and counties, so why are they asked to act the same when they are not the same?

Throw in the fact that most of the younger generation have little to no reaction.. There is no reason to treat everything the same.

Each state is free to do their own thing some are doing a better job at this then others.. In these low pop densities areas place rules that protect the high risk, 3 days a week for 2 hours stores are only open to elderly. Put limits on hospital and retirement home visits. Instead of paying for 100% of the work force to not work. Let local agencies and local business target high risk to employees to work from home or not at all and still get a paycheck.

I understand this will 100% lead to more infections and more death then leaving everything closed. However by what %. What % of people will loose their will to live as their life is destroyed around them? How many business will fail causing retirements to go up and increasing the Federal burden for a generation? People with out jobs do three things in high rates. Have more kids, commit crime, turn to drugs.

I 100% agree when Trump said the cure cannot be worse then the disease.

Also people without jobs have much higher rates of depression and suicide an unfortunate fact were seeing at the psych hospital I work at with our ED's emergency detentions

We're getting a lot of police admits right now with either violent behavior due to drug use or suicidal acts

 

[JerryLove]

Your use of over-sized and bolded text is... distracting

The cause of most problems is humans. Arrogant, ignorant and stupid. Let's see how they react to their kids being held in a box, being fed only milk and killed at their first birthday party. Force feeding geese to fatten the liver?

Not really sure if that's a statement or question or what.

If wild animals eat meat, why can't humans? This is a matter of ethics and humans aren't usually ethical, even if a person invented the word and its definition.

Clearly we can, as we, in fact, do.

But if we try to take a moral high-ground on China while ignoring our own behavior, we hare hypocrites.

I absolutely agree with this, but some lawmakers take it to extremes with their attitude of "We need to tell them what they can do in all ways, to protect them from themselves". Unfortunately, people seem to have lost the ability to consider the consequences of their actions, even when they constantly say they're sick of what is happening around them.

Yes. From abortion laws to marriage laws to Texas outlawing vibrators... government over-reach is a huge problem.

The problem- you can tell people something is not allowed, but they'll continue to do it.

You can. It makes you a hypocrite, and it was the point of my earlier paragraph.

Forbid vs require- in many cases it's only semantics; writing a law forbidding violence is different from requiring people to be peaceful in word, only. The possibility of all people obeying the requirement to be peaceful is nil because of human nature.

I don't think it's that simple. But OK.

Who determines who gets what- politicians, again? Will they be able to retroactively take from those who already have more? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that if it means that you'll lose what you have.

I won't like bad laws and I will like good ones.

Politicians not passing good laws won't magically make politicians have less power.

I therefore support good laws.

I may well be in the group that has less; though it depends on a great deal (from whether we put in universal healthcare to how we fund the expenses we have). Looking at the wealth gap right now (where the top 1% own way more than the bottom 50%), more likely hit will be the people benefiting the most from exactly the increase in per-person productivity that makes MBI necessary.

It's not only the deaths from Polio, the deformities and disabilities were terrible and caused lifelong hell for the victims. Yes, it would be a great thing to eradicate Polio- not sure what's being done on that front, though.

It's being attempted, but there's significant resistance in some parts of the world.. mostly conspiracy theories though the Obama administration's use of the cover of vaccinations to track down Bin Lauden lends credence that may ultimately kill millions.

COVID is new, but with the current technology, if a vaccine is possible, I'm sure they'll find one. Until then, people need to stay away from each other in order to prevent spreading it.

Despite its higher mortality, this is effectively a cold (there are 7 corona viruses that infect people, and 4 of them we refer to as "the common cold").

How is that cold vaccine coming?

I suspect, at best, it will end up like the flu vaccine.. you hope to get the right strain.

 

[JerryLove]

80 year-olds ARE NOT 'boomers'!

This is true. 80 is about 5 years too old.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is true. 80 is about 5 years too old.

So that would make them the silent generation IIRC....

 

[herbu]

Didn't say that you were either. I was simply saying that I wasn't trying to be political in that one specific post. Wasn't directed at anyone at all.

I know. This is what I responded to...

"My mom at least is a Trump supporter. I used to think she was smart. Classic case if ONLY hearing what he says and not paying attention to what he does.
Note: not trying to take this political. We have enough of that around here already. "

Not sure how you could make it more political. (Except maybe "B.I.H." That would do it.)

 

[highfigh]

Your use of over-sized and bolded text is... distracting

Despite its higher mortality, this is effectively a cold (there are 7 corona viruses that infect people, and 4 of them we refer to as "the common cold"
How is that cold vaccine coming?

I suspect, at best, it will end up like the flu vaccine.. you hope to get the right strain.

Bold didn't show up well enough with the normal font size and I wanted to address each point directly.

I planned (and forgot) to add to the question about force-feeding geese while I was editing, so I guess it became rhetorical.

We might see more action on the common cold virus if it was killing tens of thousands every year. Since it's not, there's no reason to expect that people would see any urgency in receiving the vaccine, which means nobody will make money from it.

Not to be cruel, but COVID-19 is culling the herd. Some obviously have some level of immunity, the stricken people with pre-existing conditions that make it more lethal should be a wake up call for the rest, at least in the US- the health of far too many in this country has fallen to a level that probably couldn't have been imagined in the '50s but the availability of excessive amounts of food and specifically, fast food, have made morbid obesity and the additional diseases that come with it inevitable.

 

[herbu]

This is obviously a new vicious virus. Personally I don't think measures taken so far have been nearly restrictive enough.
We keep getting shocks and keep finding out this thing is worse then suspected.

There is now this very worrying development from South Korea.

This needs to be understood fast.

Doc, thanks. This DOES need to be understood. I think you point out, and focus on the worst case scenario. It is necessary for some to do that. On the other hand, the article also says, "False test results could also be at fault, other experts said, or remnants of the virus could still be in patients’ systems but not be infectious or of danger to the host or others."

Usually, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It is your job to understand and prepare for the worst case. I appreciate that. I chose to listen, consider all sides, trust people like you to prepare for the worst, but keep a more optimistic view for my own peace of mind. So while I'm aware of the worst case, as long as doctors and scientists are still debating worst vs best, I'm not ready to embrace the inevitability of either.

 

[highfigh]

I

I think a lot of it is because some of them are pretty old school and came from some hard knocks

So they're kind off how's a good way to put this too Damn tough for there own good so to speak I know an older gentleman just like this who survived cancer he's go that if I die I die kind of mentality and he's not afraid of it

I think that attitude can be good and bad

My best friend who had a stroke 10 years ago and is forever confined to a nursing home contracted Covid it at that nursing home in San Antonio

I haven't been able to see him in months I miss my brother I used to see him every 2 weeks some times more if work allowed

All I can do is check in on the phone

So far all he's had was a sore through for 2 days and that's it but you'd think hed be the worst case scenario he has tons of complications so far he's plugging away

Which pissed him off he's confined to a nursing home firvthe rest of his life at the age of 55 he's told me numerous times that he will respect when God takes him home but he's ready to die he wants to die

I look him in the eye and I never know what to say when he feels like that

Maybe some off the older generation who've lost a lot of are in a lot of pain or issues feel that way maybe those are some reasons why some of them might be so reckless

I don't know

People who lived through really tough times look at some problems as "It's not as bad as....". My dad's oldest siblings were born around 1900-1905 and they lived through Vitamin D deficiency (my dad had Rickets and I assume at least one of the others did, too), most of them lived through the Spanish Flu, The Great Depression, WWII, Korean War and the last was here for everything up to the crash in 2007. Going to war makes most of life's problems into "It's probably not going to kill me, so what's the worst that could happen?" and the rest are just accepted as part of life. Some people deal with it this way, many don't.

If someone wants to go, they will go and it's really not up to us to talk them out of it because if we're successful, it can mean they'll just be more miserable until they finally pass.

 

[JerryLove]

If someone wants to go, they will go and it's really not up to us to talk them out of it because if we're successful, it can mean they'll just be more miserable until they finally pass.

I think it's more nuanced than that. I think there are both people who are making poor choices (perhaps from depression, perhaps for other reasons) that would benefit from intervention. There are also people making rational quality-of-life choices that they would prefer to shorten their lives over.

I'm pro-euthanasia. I hope it's an option available to me should the need arise. I'm not willing to make that a blanket "everyone that wants to kill themselves should be left to it/helped". I don't think you *intended* that, but it's one way to read your comment.

 

[highfigh]

I think it's more nuanced than that. I think there are both people who are making poor choices (perhaps from depression, perhaps for other reasons) that would benefit from intervention. There are also people making rational quality-of-life choices that they would prefer to shorten their lives over.

I'm pro-euthanasia. I hope it's an option available to me should the need arise. I'm not willing to make that a blanket "everyone that wants to kill themselves should be left to it/helped". I don't think you *intended* that, but it's one way to read your comment.

True and I have noticed more couples in the local obits who passed within hours or days of each other, which means they lost the will to live.

I meant it as "if someone wants to slip away, it's OK to let them and sometimes, they need to hear it before they'll allow themselves to carry on "for the children" when they're adults. I dated a nurse and she said she told some terminal patients "Sometimes, it's OK to die" and that put their minds at rest.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm providing a link here to a post I just made on the other thread. This has news about the way out of this mess.

 

[Danzilla31]

I'm providing a link here to a post I just made on the other thread. This has news about the way out of this mess.

Good to hear some hope thanks

 

[chris357]

I

I think a lot of it is because some of them are pretty old school and came from some hard knocks

So they're kind off how's a good way to put this too Damn tough for there own good so to speak I know an older gentleman just like this who survived cancer he's go that if I die I die kind of mentality and he's not afraid of it

I think that attitude can be good and bad

My best friend who had a stroke 10 years ago and is forever confined to a nursing home contracted Covid it at that nursing home in San Antonio

I haven't been able to see him in months I miss my brother I used to see him every 2 weeks some times more if work allowed

All I can do is check in on the phone

So far all he's had was a sore through for 2 days and that's it but you'd think hed be the worst case scenario he has tons of complications so far he's plugging away

Which pissed him off he's confined to a nursing home firvthe rest of his life at the age of 55 he's told me numerous times that he will respect when God takes him home but he's ready to die he wants to die

I look him in the eye and I never know what to say when he feels like that

Maybe some off the older generation who've lost a lot of are in a lot of pain or issues feel that way maybe those are some reasons why some of them might be so reckless

I don't know

I feel for you. My mother had a massive stroke in 2005 at age 67(pretty healthy) she passed in 2017. Its soul crushing to see a loved one in that situation. Prayers.

 

[3db]

I watched CNN and listened to the re-openning planned proposed by the Trump administration. One question I didnt hear asked is how will cross state travel be controlled? Do people travel across states to work?

 

[clamatowas]

First off CNN yuck.. 2nd. Everyone in America has this idea in their head that the FED is all powerful and can do anything. They cannot, they don't have the tech, tools, manpower or authority. The states have more power then most realize. Now when it comes to cross states that has always been a hard one. That is up to the FED hence why the FBI was born. However the FBI was never designee nor should it be to police law biding citizens between states.


So the answer, they are the problem of the Gov of what ever state they are in.