Coronavirus: When Would You Turn The Country Back On?

[Danzilla31]

Being from the logistics industry I'm more worried about ocean carriers as far more international cargo moves that way (and domestically its not all that much either in the big picture). We can live without business meetings easily enough IMO, and while tourism is important to a few places, its generally something we can get around I think. A friend of mine still works in the ocean logistics biz and he's looking at a possible permanent loss of job if it boils down to basic sailings (he's in sales and automation has come a long way in recent years). His company, one of the world's largest container lines, has cancelled many sailings and is losing quite a bit of money and while I've seen some noise about helping cruise lines....

man my city San Antonio is gonna take a hit with tourism the river walk and different areas are important to our economy here and I can't see that opening up ANY TIME SOON. Even if it did I know a ton of people who just wouldn't go.

That's the general consensus among a lot of people I know there willing to work but until a vaccine is developed there not willing to do anything else. Most people I know are planning on doing what's necessary but social distancing on every thing else.

 

[lovinthehd]

man my city San Antonio is gonna take a hit with tourism the river walk and different areas are important to our economy here and I can't see that opening up ANY TIME SOON. Even if it did I know a ton of people who just wouldn't go.

That's the general consensus among a lot of people I know there willing to work but until a vaccine is developed there not willing to do anything else. Most people I know are planning on doing what's necessary but social distancing on every thing else.

Hard to volunteer to be a guinea pig

 

[Danzilla31]

Hard to volunteer to be a guinea pig

Hah hah! For sure

 

[lovinthehd]

Running our financial system wall street style, i.e. on short term outlook without particular long term views, has always been a potential problem.

 

[lovinthehd]

man my city San Antonio is gonna take a hit with tourism the river walk and different areas are important to our economy here and I can't see that opening up ANY TIME SOON. Even if it did I know a ton of people who just wouldn't go.

That's the general consensus among a lot of people I know there willing to work but until a vaccine is developed there not willing to do anything else. Most people I know are planning on doing what's necessary but social distancing on every thing else.

As far as cruise ships go....floating germ factories ! I have never wanted to get on one....but I don't like to fly commercially for even shorter term risk

 

[Danzilla31]

As far as cruise ships go....floating germ factories ! I have never wanted to get on one....but I don't like to fly commercially for even shorter term risk

My parents were trying to talk me into a cruise before this hit we way going to go next year I was being stubborn but starting to waver.

Then came Covid and well I'm not wavering anymore no cruises for me

Besides I've seen too many movies where terrorists or pirates take over the cruise trip and I can't see myself pulling off a Bruce Willis die hard style

Sooooo no cruises!!!

 

[lovinthehd]

My parents were trying to talk me into a cruise before this hit we way going to go next year I was being stubborn but starting to waver.

Then came Covid and well I'm not wavering anymore no cruises for me

Besides I've seen too many movies where terrorists or pirates take over the cruise trip and I can't see myself pulling off a Bruce Willis die hard style

Sooooo no cruises!!!

LOL I was thinking more about previous disease sprread and food poisoning rather than terrorists Plus they have crappy environmental records. Just don't get it I suppose.

 

[JerryLove]

IMO, the World Court needs to go after China for allowing wet markets which, apparently, are reopening.

At the same time that we get rid of those to stop live bats from giving us Coronavirus varisions; the World courd need to get rid of cows, which are the source of bovine bovine spongiform encephalopathy (and the way veal is made is inhumane... ditto patte). We need to get rid of oysters (Vibrio vulnificus). Have you seen how most chickens live their lives?

In fact, on the same basic grounds we are using to take China to task over their wet markets; we must end meat-eating or else be hypocrites.

I don't like forcing people to be tested but if it clearly shows that some are trying to bypass the intelligent choice of not intentionally infecting others by ignoring the fact that THEY'RE contagious, this is what's needed. The problem is that by requiring people to submit to tests, the door will be open to requiring them to give up more levels of anonymity and ownership of things that some feel are causing problems.

It's the idea of having laws... that some behavior must be regulated for the good of the whole.

I don't see much distinction between forbidding an action and requiring one. At one extreme, we required people to serve in the military for the good of the country as a whole. It seems that if it's OK for me to ship you off to the Pacific to kill and die, it's OK for me to require you to take a health test.

I think it is important to acknowledge the sacrifice that those who test positive are making and pay them to isolate and insure they do not lose their job by "doing the right thing" for the rest of us.

Agree. Perhaps it's a good time to look at how to implement universal income.

Our country did manage to uphold an aggressive isolation program during the polio epidemic!

The death and disability rates in kids during the days of Polio are staggering. Thank goodness a vaccine was developed... now if we could just eradicate it like we did SmallPox.

 

[JerryLove]

I see it as a fairly simple problem with two possible answers:
1) A vaccine is developed and made universally available.
2) Testing become abundant enough that we can test virtually everyone and quickly isolate anyone who tests positive and allow everyone who tested negative to "be free"!

I'd assert there's a third and fourth.

3) Effective palliative care becomes available.
4) Enough people become immune to at least let the immune get back to [insert activity] or [better] herd immunity starts to take hold.

The down side of flattening the curve is that it can make is much longer.

 

[JerryLove]

Agreed. And I think that balance of economic and health criteria is what will make the decision so difficult. Conceding lives for the economy would be a tough argument to make. That's what will happen if we don't wait for 100% eradication of Corona. And I'm not sure anybody proposes waiting for that.

The thing is: We do that every day.

At the most obvious: every opponent of universal healthcare.
But also every dollar not put into research.
And we take any number of risks (like driving) for fun and profit.

Of course, we don't really approach it consistently... google "trolley experiment" to see how humanity makes decisions on "moral" and "immoral" that are nigh nonsensical.

 

[Pogre]

At the same time that we get rid of those to stop live bats from giving us Coronavirus varisions; the World courd need to get rid of cows, which are the source of bovine bovine spongiform encephalopathy (and the way veal is made is inhumane... ditto patte). We need to get rid of oysters (Vibrio vulnificus). Have you seen how most chickens live their lives?

I don't think comparing the coronavirus to bovine spongiform or Vibrio vulnificus even in the same general universe (or very honest, frankly). There's only one of those that threatened all of humanity within a few months of existing.

As far as bovine spongiform goes, iirc it was openly investigated, things were shut down completely and production practices were altered to prevent it from happening again.

Again, apples and oranges.

 

[Danzilla31]

I don't think comparing the coronavirus to bovine spongiform or Vibrio vulnificus even in the same general universe (or very honest, frankly). There's only one of those that threatened all of humanity within a few months of existing.

As far as bovine spongiform goes, iirc it was openly investigated, things were shut down completely and production practices were altered to prevent it from happening again.

Again, apples and oranges.

I think even more practical is how are you going to get them to stop? Especially if they tell people to f@$!# off?

They might not do it so bluntly but they might do it none the less

It's not like we're going to be in a position of strength to do anything about it after this is all said and done

 

[Danzilla31]

LOL I was thinking more about previous disease sprread and food poisoning rather than terrorists Plus they have crappy environmental records. Just don't get it I suppose.

Oh I know I was just joking about the terrorist part except for the part about me not being as badass as Bruce Willis in Die Hard

That's just a fact

 

[panteragstk]

man my city San Antonio is gonna take a hit with tourism the river walk and different areas are important to our economy here and I can't see that opening up ANY TIME SOON. Even if it did I know a ton of people who just wouldn't go.

That's the general consensus among a lot of people I know there willing to work but until a vaccine is developed there not willing to do anything else. Most people I know are planning on doing what's necessary but social distancing on every thing else.

Gonna hit my city too. I think New Braunfels makes a ton on tourism. Don't even want to think about how many came through here in spring break.

However, we're close enough to each other that when all this craziness calms down we could get a beer. Would be nice to meet a member face to face.

Trying to live life better after this. Hopefully the rest of the country follows suit.

 

[panteragstk]

Another way I use to help people understand the importance of adhering to the social distancing is that while I may not be at much risk of dying from the virus (at 61 and generally healthy, I think I would win the triage war), I could well end up taking a bed and ventilator that might have been available to save someone else (if the poop hits the fan all at once in your community - like it did in Italy)!
One of the unique things about this virus is that it seems especially likely to require critical care. If the critical care facilities get overwhelmed the death rate suddenly jumps up as people who might otherwise be saved are turned away. I hope we never see that here, but it is a valid possibility if we get cocky about having beat the virus!

Could you send a memo to the rest of your Boomer generation to stay the hell inside? My wife was talking to her mom the other day (your age) and she talks like she gets it. We even had her drop stuff on our porch and wave to the kids from the front window, but she still says "we went to Costco" and other places. She doesn't get it. My father in law uses a CPAP and my wife's grandma lives with them and is in her 80's. High risk people just going around like it's nothing. Drives me nuts.

Don't they get we're doing all this to protect them?

 

[lovinthehd]

Could you send a memo to the rest of your Boomer generation to stay the hell inside? My wife was talking to her mom the other day (your age) and she talks like she gets it. We even had her drop stuff on our porch and wave to the kids from the front window, but she still says "we went to Costco" and other places. She doesn't get it. My father in law uses a CPAP and my wife's grandma lives with them and is in her 80's. High risk people just going around like it's nothing. Drives me nuts.

Don't they get we're doing all this to protect them?

Most of us "boomers" that I know at least take it seriously....the ones that think drumphy has any knowledge....not so much.

 

[panteragstk]

Most of us "boomers" that I know at least take it seriously....the ones that think drumphy has any knowledge....not so much.

That may be the difference. I don't know where my mother-in-law stands, but we are in Texas so it could go either way.

My mom at least is a Trump supporter. I used to think she was smart. Classic case if ONLY hearing what he says and not paying attention to what he does.

Note: not trying to take this political. We have enough of that around here already.

 

[lovinthehd]

That may be the difference. I don't know where my mother-in-law stands, but we are in Texas so it could go either way.

My mom at least is a Trump supporter. I used to think she was smart. Classic case if ONLY hearing what he says and not paying attention to what he does.

Note: not trying to take this political. We have enough of that around here already.

I was not trying to, but just pointing out information/belief sources. He hasn't done anyone any favors in terms of good information to date.

 

[panteragstk]

I was not trying to, but just pointing out information/belief sources. He hasn't done anyone any favors to date.

I know you weren't. That was for everyone else. Generations just think differently. Nothing wrong with that at all. Keep each other in check.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't think anyone in there right mind (at least I hope not) is saying just pick a date in 2 weeks and let her rip!!!!

But I do understand there point that we are going to have to begin starting things back up slowly within some type of set time period

If you keep things at a complete standstill for too long there isn't going to be anything to open back up too

Money and materialism is not every thing a lot of us can learn to live without our fancy toys and gadgets and living beyond our means but we're not talking about that level of economics were talking about the basics here the ability to sustain ourselves and ones family were talking survival there is a symbiotic relationship between society and humanity and economics at that level or as we talk about in psychiatric care Maslows hierarchy of needs

The problem as I see it is a vaccine is just too far out to count on right now

So the real solution is testing finding out where it's moving and making smart decisions to open things up slowly and strategically from there

The problem with that is we are still way way behind the curve on testing were not even close from what I can understand from the information I can gather

So we are going and our leaders are going to have to make some difficult decisions along the way because closing every thing down until 2022 isn't going to be a realistic option just like opening every thing up next week wouldn't be either

There's much I agree with on these threads but some of them I just can't see as realistic closing down all airlines?

If China and Russia and other major superpowers get back up again and there transportation infrastructure is just better then ours well.... That's not going to end well for us

Personally I wish more of the bailout money went towards hospitals and our medical system right now that's where we are going to need it the most in the months to come

Maybe they did put provisions in there when they passed the relief aid and I just missed it in there if so I apologize

No one is going to close down airlines, except the banks. The airlines are going, and will go broke. There will not be enough bail out money to save them. Investors have run for cover. The only possible way to keep them going will be nationalization which I suppose could happen, but I doubt it will.