In-wall rear surround recommendations

[William Lemmerhirt]

You mentioned this before as possibly adding to your bass levels. I think that’s entirely possible. Bass waves collect in corners and small spaces. I still think the sb1k is the Erich subwoofer, but as a tinkerer I think you could benefit from a Umik and rew and minidsp once you get setup. Actually, I think the pc2k might have built in PEQ, and the SVS app so that could be beneficial. It might in the 3000’s though. Can’t look right now...

 

[mossman77]

Thoughts on subs with passive radiators? Would that give me more SPL compared to a comparable ported box? I like that this design allows for a more compact enclosure, and supposedly yields the best of both sealed and ported designs. Example being the Aperion Audio Bravus II 12D.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thoughts on subs with passive radiators? Would that give me more SPL compared to a comparable ported box? I like that this design allows for a more compact enclosure, and supposedly yields the best of both sealed and ported designs. Example being the Aperion Audio Bravus II 12D.

No. Same basic output. The PR acts like a port.

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes, a PR design allows for a smaller cabinet. It does not allow for greater SPL.
In a properly designed system they can be quite effective. I would not consider that Sub, however, to be a worthy investment, as an example. It isn't that it is poorly designed, per se, but it is barely an upgrade from what you have... if at all. By all accounts, below 40Hz that thing basically disappears behind distortion and lack of power.

I have nothing invested in recommending SVS to you (or any other good quality sub that might fit your criteria), other than trying to help (much like Pogre, Bill, Snake...) you achieve a better performing system.

In a greater than 5000'3 room, your current strategy is flawed. You don't seem to want to learn from our experience and advice. I am reminded of several sayings: one about repeating behavior and different results, and one about horses and water.

It is your system, your ears, and your ducats. Please do what you wish and enjoy your system!

Cheers!

 

[mossman77]

I have nothing invested in recommending SVS to you (or any other good quality sub that might fit your criteria), other than trying to help (much like Pogre, Bill, Snake...) you achieve a better performing system.

This isn't the case at all. I'm just exploring all options and throwing different ideas out there to solicit feedback and to learn as much as I can.

 

[mossman77]

Have to throw two more ideas out there floating around in my head and I'll be done....

Passive in-wall subwoofers (in addition to a regular powered sub in the front of the room)? I could place a couple in the rear wall behind the couch. This would allow me to both hear and feel the bass, which would make it seem louder than it actually is.

Sound shaker/bass shakers under the couch.

 

[snakeeyes]

This isn't the case at all. I'm just exploring all options and throwing different ideas out there to solicit feedback and to learn as much as I can.

Well I’m happy you are questioning everything. It’s fun to learn and I hope you stick around and continue posting for many years.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Have to throw two more ideas out there floating around in my head and I'll be done....

Passive in-wall subwoofers (in addition to a regular powered sub in the front of the room)? I could place a couple in the rear wall behind the couch. This would allow me to both hear and feel the bass, which would make it seem louder than it actually is.

Sound shaker/bass shakers under the couch.

My .02.
IW subs are not as good as in room subwoofers performance wise, and the lack of placement options makes it a non starter for me.
And I’ve never encountered shakers that didn’t seem annoying and fake.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Those were good questions though, and maybe someone else can offer some more.

 

[mossman77]

My .02.
IW subs are not as good as in room subwoofers performance wise, and the lack of placement options makes it a non starter for me.
And I’ve never encountered shakers that didn’t seem annoying and fake.

Just hooked up my down-firing Klipsch Sub-10 and currently playing both subs simultaneously. Sounds great! The SB-1000 is hitting all the notes and the sub-10 is giving me punch/kick/boom. I have the SB-1000 on the front wall (as shown in the pic) and sub-10 against the right wall. Sounds best with the sub-10 180 degrees out of phase. No more localization

 

[Pogre]

Just hooked up my Klipsch Sub-10 and currently playing both subs simultaneously. Sounds great! The SB-1000 is hitting all the notes and the sub-10 is giving me punch/kick/boom. I have the SB-1000 on the front wall (as shown in the pic) and sub-10 against the right wall. Sounds best with the sub-10 180 degrees out of phase. No more localization

Wait until you hear 2 real subs that match. You'll look back at this moment and laugh at yourself.

 

[mossman77]

Wait until you hear 2 real subs that match. You'll look back at this moment and laugh at yourself.

Haha, I know. Just got a little excited. I'm guessing mixing one ealed and one ported sub of the same brand would be a bad idea too?

 

[Pogre]

Haha, I know. Just got a little excited. I'm guessing mixing one ealed and one ported sub of the same brand would be a bad idea too?

I'll bet you do feel an improvement because you are increasing the amount of air being moved with the 2nd sub. That li'l SB1000 needs all the help it can get! Mixing ported and sealed aren't generally recommended but it can be done well with some careful filtering.

The experience I had when I got bigger subs was at first I didn't think they were set up correctly because the cones were barely moving and they seemed quieter than my little sealed subs. I was sure something was wrong, but I kept trying out different material and noticed stuff was rattling and vibrating that I hadn't noticed before. After I got a little more acclimated to the new sound I realized they weren't "quieter". They were cleaner. Those bigger drivers in the ported box don't need to move nearly as much as my little sealed ones did and can play deeper bass more effortlessly, with no more distortion- and I didn't know I was hearing distortion before!

 

[Pogre]

And just for the record, I was almost as stubborn as you about it too, lol. I really thought I had it about as good as it gets. I wanted receivers and amplifiers. @lovinthehd kept working me over tho and I gave in.

 

[mossman77]

I'll bet you do feel an improvement because you are increasing the amount of air being moved with the 2nd sub. That li'l SB1000 needs all the help it can get! Mixing ported and sealed aren't generally recommended but it can be done well with some careful filtering.

The experience I had when I got bigger subs was at first I didn't think they were set up correctly because the cones were barely moving and they seemed quieter than my little sealed subs. I was sure something was wrong, but I kept trying out different material and noticed stuff was rattling and vibrating that I hadn't noticed before. After I got a little more acclimated to the new sound I realized they weren't "quieter". They were cleaner. Those bigger drivers in the ported box don't need to move nearly as much as my little sealed ones did and can play deeper bass more effortlessly, with no more distortion- and I didn't know I was hearing distortion before!

Interesting indeed. I've experienced the same thing where the sub appears to be barely moving but is producing massive bass.

If it isn't clear, I prefer tighter more accurate "musical" bass than deep thundering bass, but I'm glad to realize adding a second sub in my space can make such a huge difference.

 

[Pogre]

If it isn't clear, I prefer tighter more accurate "musical" bass than deep thundering bass

Me too. Pretty much everyone here does.

Tho there's nothing wrong with a li'l thunder when you want it!

 

[NINaudio]

Interesting indeed. I've experienced the same thing where the sub appears to be barely moving but is producing massive bass.

If it isn't clear, I prefer tighter more accurate "musical" bass than deep thundering bass, but I'm glad to realize adding a second sub in my space can make such a huge difference.

As do we all here. We're not fans of one note wonders!

 

[mossman77]

I realize this has segued into a sub discussion, but wanted to mention that that although the SVS trade-up program is appealing, I don't want to limit myself to their subs if there are better options out there for my space. I am seriously considering dual subs, but really want to find something more compact (and more economical) than what SVS has to offer. I also read that the smaller the main drivers are, the more important it is that the sub(s) be located closer to the mains. Is this correct?

 

[Pogre]

The reason we've recommended the PCS are because they are big enough and powerful enough to make a difference in your space while also taking up a smaller footprint. You are not going to get around this with a smaller box. Not for your space. It's just not going to happen.

You can read up a little on Hoffman's iron laws of speaker building here.

Hoffman’s Iron Laws of Speaker Building | Speaker Design

 

[Pogre]

That said, I would suggest possibly a pair of Hsu ULS-15 MK2s with it in mind that a pair of ported VTF-15H MK2s or VTF-3 MK5s would be ideal, I think, for your space. The ULS is sealed tho and a smaller form factor, but still big enough and powerful enough to make a noticeable difference If you're gonna get out of SVS those are my suggestions for your best bang for buck.