Choose: Krell Showcase 7 or Conrad Johnson MF5600

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't want to change the sound, I just want one of the amps mentioned because they are both sonically so much better than my Emotiva A-500. Both the CJ and the Krell are serious upgrades.

What's not better than the Emo?

"Krell" and "Conrad" both sound so much more MANLY than sissy emotional "emotiva".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

they both sound great

That's the salient point.

Who cares if amps sound DIFFERENT or the SAME.

If they both sound GREAT, then it doesn't matter which amp you buy in regards to sound quality. The only other factors would be Resale Value, Pride of Ownership, Aesthetics, Price, and Reliability - which amp is older and has been through more services?

 

[Pogre]

So would a delicious amp that's more crisp be like eating Pringles? I'm not a chip guy but when I do eat chips I prefer Pringles to so I say get the Krell.

 

[Pogre]

That's the salient point.

Who cares if amps sound DIFFERENT or the SAME.

If they both sound GREAT, then it doesn't matter which amp you buy in regards to sound quality. The only other factors would be Resale Value, Pride of Ownership, Aesthetics, Price, and Reliability - which amp is older and has been through more services?

So which is more reliable? A brand new ATI or an older refurbished boutique brand?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So which is more reliable? A brand new ATI or an older refurbished boutique brand?

No brainer. ATI 100%.

How much is a pre-owned Krell or Conrad Johnson?

 

[ryanosaur]

Wow. So much to unpack!

I did try warning you @Mesonto this wasn't gonna be the place to cater to Amp-as-Food descriptions. Considering I'm a former professional Chef, I've also been exposed to way too much Food-as-Sex description and am therefore extra leery/weary of this Amp-ophile tendency.

If they both sound GREAT, then it doesn't matter which amp you buy in regards to sound quality.

THIS! It was said above, too! and it is very true.

On a side note, I am going to followup with the suggestion of listening to the Salk speakers and maybe thinking about a future purchase.

Now you are getting somewhere!!! Kudos.
I haven't heard Wilson Audio but by reputation. For a boutique brand, though, I've heard a lot of negative critiques when it comes to their actual performance.
On the other hand, I can say in all honesty that I am thoroughly impressed by the speakers Jim Salk produces. His Cabinets are stunning, and the driver choices, voicing and Crossover work are exemplary. My own Phil 3s were the work of Dennis Murphy who consulted and designed most (all?) of Jim's XOs. The Phils were Dennis' response to the SoundScape 8, previously Jim's Flagship which has been described by many as the best speaker they had ever heard. Dennis wanted something similar but more affordable and thus his Phils were birthed.
Regardless, Jim's team built my Phil3s for Dennis and I am indirectly a Salk Customer.
After hearing what well designed speakers with a flat FR and accurate voicing sound like, I don't think I can ever go back to buying OEM gear again. And definitely, I won't spend the money on boutique cr@p that doesn't walk the walk.
For me, at the CAS this past year, Jim's new flagship did just that: it walked the walk. The SS9.5 was, to me, the best speaker at the show.
I hope you do get the chance to hear some Salk Speakers. Moreover, I hope you enjoy what you hear.

Cheers!

 

[Pogre]

No brainer. ATI 100%.

How much is a pre-owned Krell or Conrad Johnson?

That's the big question. I didn't read every post as I just now saw this thread, but I didn't see any prices mentioned. That'd be the deciding factor. For the right price I'd grab a boutique amp, but if I could spend less for more and go with a brand new ATI (or something like it) that would make it a no brainer for sure.

 

[ryanosaur]

That's the big question. I didn't read every post as I just now saw this thread, but I didn't see any prices mentioned. That'd be the deciding factor. For the right price I'd grab a boutique amp, but if I could spend less for more and go with a brand new ATI (or something like it) that would make it a no brainer for sure.

New it was something like $5500 back in 2002.
Found this post from '17; $1800:

Krell Showcase 7 Amplifier - factory serviced

Krell Showcase 7-Channel amplifier in silver. Serviced by Krell recently (replaced caps, fully tested). Krell claims that it is as good as new from an operational perspective. I have already replaced this amplifier with another one, so it is available for sale.Cosmetically, the amp is in good...

www.usaudiomart.com

 

[Pogre]

New it was something like $5500 back in 2002.
Found this post from '17; $1800:

Krell Showcase 7 Amplifier - factory serviced

Krell Showcase 7-Channel amplifier in silver. Serviced by Krell recently (replaced caps, fully tested). Krell claims that it is as good as new from an operational perspective. I have already replaced this amplifier with another one, so it is available for sale.Cosmetically, the amp is in good...

www.usaudiomart.com

Serviced to 'like new' by Krell is a nice touch. Is that warrantied too?

 

[lovinthehd]

Serviced to 'like new' by Krell is a nice touch. Is that warrantied too?

Doubt more than the usual 90day type post-repair warranty for the issues it was repaired for....but I'm guessing. I thought the amps in question were "audiophile" tweaked with caps and such?

 

[Pogre]

Doubt more than the usual 90day type post-repair warranty for the issues it was repaired for....but I'm guessing. I thought the amps in question were "audiophile" tweaked with caps and such?

For what the op was looking at yes. I think @ryanosaur is just giving us a ballpark estimate of what the same model is selling for. I'm just curious about that particular unit.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm just curious about that particular unit.

I think it depends on how many Fudge-Marbles they were able to fit into the Chassis!

 

[lovinthehd]

Mmm chocolatey!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

btw: found their measurement here:

SoundStage! Measurements - Wilson Audio Sophia Loudspeakers (12/2001)

Wow. The listening window on-axis from about 50Hz-15kHz is about +/- 2dB. I didn't know Wilson Audio speakers could measure that accurate.

Already bought Wilson Audio Sophia's (Series 1) about 20 years ago. Not upgrading these for a long time.

I think your Wilson's have pretty good measurement. And plus you love their sound. So yeah, I think they are a keeper.

How much are the Krell and CJ?

 

[Mikado463]

I think you need upgrade to these bad boys ! ..........

MBL 101 XTreme Reference Install - Page 2

Originally Posted by apdoc2004 Mike, Do the MBL 101E MkII speakers have similar adjustability options? What would be the minimum and optimal room size

www.audioshark.org

 

[Mesonto]

How much are the Krell and CJ?

They are each appx. $2000.00 CDN. Both a relative bargain considering they are newly recapped. (about $800.00 on the Krell and $1100.00 on the CJ of new caps and the labour that went into them)

Side note: ironically all the people who think amplifiers sound the same, are telling me to go buy $8000+ CDN ATI amplifiers... lol.

BTW, thank you for having responses that have helped.

Now trying to find a place to audition Salk speakers near me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Wow. The listening window on-axis from about 50Hz-15kHz is about +/- 2dB. I didn't know Wilson Audio speakers could measure that accurate.



I think your Wilson's have pretty good measurement. And plus you love their sound. So yeah, I think they are a keeper.

How much are the Krell and CJ?

I don't know where you see +/- 2db, What I see is much closer to 50-18k +/-3db and it ain't that great for 12k speaker. I'd say it may be impressive for Wilsons, but here's how Salk's SS10 measure:

Also, Wilson's harmonic distortion charts aren't that impressive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know where you see +/- 2db, What I see is much closer to 50-18k +/-3db and it ain't that great for 12k speaker. I'd say it may be impressive for Wilsons, but here's how Salk's SS10 measure:

Also, Wilson's harmonic distortion charts aren't that impressive.

Does the Salk measure that well from a 3rd party like AH, Soundstage or Stereophile ? Every company has their own graphs, but what do they look like from a 3rd party as mentioned?

As for the Sophia, I was looking at the Listening Window graph, which definitely looks like +/-2.5dB from 40Hz-19kHz. That's great.

If you look at the Revel Salon 2, it's about +/- 2.5dB from 40Hz-20kHz, but it's more like +/- 1.7dB from 70Hz-20kHz.

Anyway, I doubt anyone can hear the difference between +/-2.5dB vs +/- 1.7dB.

As for the distortion, is it actually audible or just for academic?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They are each appx. $2000.00 CDN. Both a relative bargain considering they are newly recapped. (about $800.00 on the Krell and $1100.00 on the CJ of new caps and the labour that went into them)

Side note: ironically all the people who think amplifiers sound the same, are telling me to go buy $8000+ CDN ATI amplifiers... lol.

BTW, thank you for having responses that have helped.

Now trying to find a place to audition Salk speakers near me.

Well, I would get the $2K Krell, not $8K from any brand.

 

[ryanosaur]

Now trying to find a place to audition Salk speakers near me.

Salk Sound doesn’t sell to distributors, they are ID (internet direct) and only build to order.
If you are interested, reach out to Jim by phone or E-mail. He often answers the phone himself! He will gladly discuss the product line and make recommendations based on your intended set-up and usage.
A good deal of his clients offer to host auditions in their own home, and Jim maintains a list who and where they are.
When I mentioned above my own speakers, built by Jim for his colleague Dennis, Dennis did the exact same thing: I was introduced to a local owner and invited to come hang out for an hour. It was an absolute honor and joy to be welcomed in to this guys home.
He turned on the system, gave me his iPad with Roon and Tidal, sat down on the sofa and said, Go for it!” He was having as much fun as I was.
Yes, to be clear this was a Philharmonic Audio customer, not a Salk customer. But like me, Jim built his speakers too, and we both had direct contact with Jim throughout the process.
Jim’s audition routine is largely the same!

Salk Sound is in Michigan. Depending on where you are located in Canada, it might be very easy to find yourself paired up with somebody who will let you audition their rig. I’ve also heard that he will run audition himself at his house.

Best,
R